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| 28 JUN 2008 at 7:50pm |
antlerIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 51
Joined: 28 NOV 2007
Status : Online | Originally Posted By SuperEdy (25 JUN 2008 8:59pm)
Originally Posted By jujigatame (25 JUN 2008 1:00am)
I just think that being first is not all it's cracked up to be. Just because a game is groundbreaking technically doesn't mean it's actually any good.
Yes, the stories are derivative (sometimes even plagiarized) and the puzzles banal but what you're missing and the reason why she's considered a great game designer is because of the way she told stories, not for the stories she told. When the games came out, the graphics, music, animations, voices, interface all contributed to a great experience, people were mesmerized by this new kind of games.
Mystery House was the first adventure I ever saw and I was spellbound by it, I recently tried it on an emulator and it sucks, so what? That only proves that the game was a product of its times, do you need to only design all-time classics to be great?
Nowadays games like Mass Effect have a lead designer and a lead writer, there are two different figures. Unfortunately she was both, so I think the title of the thread is wrong, it should be "Roberta Williams couldn't write an original story to save her life", of course, if it was like that, everybody would simply agree.
BTW I think Phantasmagoria is nothing more than a (scarcely) interactive movie and undoubtedly her worst game
Exactly. She was not a great story teller but her games were cutting edge for the times. Her innovations laid the foundations for others to build on. You have to remember before Mystery House you played text games. Because of the existing game engines others were free to write more complex stories. They did not have to spend their time creating a game platform. Others expanded the engines, but it was her work that created the genre. I've looked at some of those early games and thought, "lame", but putting it perspective you discover how creative this woman was. Because of those accomplishments she has to be considered a member of the elite game creators.
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| 25 AUG 2008 at 1:31pm |
KewalakaSpace Cadet
Posts : 130
Joined: 3 SEP 2004
Status : Online | Having started out on Sierra games I don't understand people who think getting killed in an adventure game is a bad thing. Crazy deaths is part of the fun of Sierra games. What kind of adventurer doesn't know that you're supposed to save often? I didn't discover Lucas Arts no death games until about the time they stopped producing them. And frankly I was shocked at the lack of crazy death scenes (though you can drown in one of the Monkey Island games).
I'm not much a KQ fan, but I sure miss Space Quest.
&&[url=http://gametz.com/user/stuartj.html]My GameTZ page[/url]
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| 27 AUG 2008 at 11:50am |
Murphy2042Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 59
Joined: 16 AUG 2008
Status : Online | This is really a difficult topic. I do believe that her games are anything but flawless and gameplay wise there are lots of people that did a better job, but you won´t find many people as important for adventure gaming as Roberta Williams. For a long time she pushed the envelope further and further by beeing the first at things and without her the next step of the adventure evolution ( Maniac Mansion) never would have happened the way it did. So even if i have some reservations about her gameplay design ( Despite that i like Phantasmagoria a lot, even though the seventh chapter is a perfect example for her gameplay flaws) , she is one of adventuregamings brightest legends - from my point of view- and her name will always be linked to the history of adventure games in a very impressive way.
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| 28 AUG 2008 at 4:52am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16552
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Is it possible that people who came after her were better than her because they had her errors and omissions as examples? They had something to improve upon?
You know, the first bicycle had no pedals yet it was very popular. Would the person who added the pedals have even thought of it if he hadn't seen the first model and thought.... hey, that gives me an idea how to improve this...
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| 28 AUG 2008 at 11:17am |
Murphy2042Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 59
Joined: 16 AUG 2008
Status : Online | That´s a good point.
I guess what she mainly gets critized for is that while others improved from all the firsts she did ( together with the flaws), she kept doing the flaws , while others like Lucas Arts already left all these flaws behind, but still that´s a good point.
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| 29 AUG 2009 at 9:38pm |
TCPrivate Detective
Posts : 688
Joined: 14 NOV 2005
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Murphy2042 (28 AUG 2008 11:17am)
I guess what she mainly gets critized for is that while others improved from all the firsts she did ( together with the flaws), she kept doing the flaws , while others like Lucas Arts already left all these flaws behind
That's a VERY accurate observation, Murphy2042. In fact, you can see an explicit addmission from the proverbial horse's mouth here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAb30KyYZE4&feature=related.
Ironically, it seems she doesn't really care about recycling old mistakes. She thinks it's ok to remain forever in the past, no matter how sordid it actually was.
Revealing, isn't it?
P.S. - I forgot to mention - the part of the video germane to this discussion begins at about 0:43 in the above-linked video ("the essential idea of how..."
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| 30 AUG 2009 at 6:30am |
Simo Sakari AaltonenSpace Cadet
Posts : 130
Joined: 23 APR 2004
Status : Offline | I rewatched that clip (originally from The King's Quest Collection of the late 1990s)* and I heard something quite different. To me she is talking about the story content and the essential experience of playing as a character through a story you see unfold on the screen, rather than about the gameplay mechanics. I guess what you hear is in the ear of the beholder.
* With background music from Gabriel Knight: Sins of the Fathers! At least Robert Holmes is credited in the manual.
[url=http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/album.php?u=57439][i]King's Quest[/i] & [i]Space Quest[/i] galleries (Telltale Forums)[/url]&&&&[url=http://www.adventurecompanion.com]The Adventure Companion[/url]
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| 31 AUG 2009 at 6:00am |
CollectorIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 16
Joined: 7 JAN 2009
Status : Online | Originally Posted By TC (29 AUG 2009 9:38pm)
That's a VERY accurate observation, Murphy2042. In fact, you can see an explicit addmission from the proverbial horse's mouth here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAb30KyYZE4&feature=related.
Ironically, it seems she doesn't really care about recycling old mistakes. She thinks it's ok to remain forever in the past, no matter how sordid it actually was.
Revealing, isn't it?
How you can derive that from this clip is a real stretch.
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| 1 SEP 2009 at 12:20am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Collector (31 AUG 2009 5:59am)
Originally Posted By TC (29 AUG 2009 9:38pm)
That's a VERY accurate observation, Murphy2042. In fact, you can see an explicit addmission from the proverbial horse's mouth here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAb30KyYZE4&feature=related.
Ironically, it seems she doesn't really care about recycling old mistakes. She thinks it's ok to remain forever in the past, no matter how sordid it actually was.
Revealing, isn't it?
How you can derive that from this clip is a real stretch.
No doubt! I didn't see (or hear) anything like that in the video.
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| 2 SEP 2009 at 3:23pm |
markornikovJourneyman
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Posts : 1313
Joined: 28 OCT 2011
Location: BE, Antwerp
Status : Offline | Roberta's games are one of my best childhood memories, so i do love her game designs. I totally disagree that the King's quest series are the worst of the 'quest' game. KQ VII is definitely the most beautiful one (*)
I think she's very good at telling stories for kids, hence the use of fairy tales. Now that i'm an adult i do agree that her games aren't that great when i compare them with a story like the lost crown
(*) This is the perfect opportunity to whip [smiley=indie.gif] the reviewer of KQ VII of this site for giving it such a low score (D). [smiley=furious.gif] It's one of the few reviews here that are totally unfair.
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| 2 SEP 2009 at 7:20pm |
Simo Sakari AaltonenSpace Cadet
Posts : 130
Joined: 23 APR 2004
Status : Offline | For me it has gone the other way. As the years have passed the more I have come to appreciate what she did.
(When I was much younger I thought, to my shame now, that her games were not "mature" enough. : Now I think it was me who was not mature enough for them. Just like I am only now mature enough for Winnie-the-Pooh. But to my credit I will say that I was always ready for the Alice books.)
[url=http://www.telltalegames.com/forums/album.php?u=57439][i]King's Quest[/i] & [i]Space Quest[/i] galleries (Telltale Forums)[/url]&&&&[url=http://www.adventurecompanion.com]The Adventure Companion[/url]
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