| 15 JUN 2008 at 3:27pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Karsten (15 JUN 2008 9:04am)
Everyone can, as Terry & Ivinia said, legally use arial fonts in their games or 3D soundclips as long as they pay for them. (But didn't Bethesda use free middleware textures for Oblivion? as did STALKER ? I think STALKER used the same freeware textures? or did they pay for the use of these textures?)
If you are saying they could have used the same texture in Limbo that was freeware and this is OK, then yes, they could have, but they didn't. They took the entire scenes and and textures straight from the other game(s).
The folks at Neogaf have just found that at least one of the screenshots from the Amiga version of Limbo that these guys started 10+ years ago were also apparently ripped from at least one other Amiga game. This would appear to be standard operating procedure for these guys.
I'm tracing a suspicion of mine later today to see if holds true.
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| 15 JUN 2008 at 5:36pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6694
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Online | .
Given that TriSynergy's main focus is not on games, it's a bit more understandable / forgiveable that they missed these obvious legal offenses - especially since another established publisher had already started distributing Limbo of the Lost. But G2 Games is almost entirely focused on interactive entertainment products and they should have caught it. Their problem though is that they mostly do sims and are probably not that familar with RPGs like Oblivion or other genres that were stolen from.
In any event, the developers HAD to have known full well that they were stealing copyrighted material left and right. Evidently, they have also been very dishonest in posting on several game forums and in duping people into offering free help. So I consider them to be nothing more than scam artists and I hope Bethesda Softworks, TriSynergy, GT Games, and others sue their pants off.
This industry gets enough bad press as it is and these guys need to be made examples of.
Cheers, Terry
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| 15 JUN 2008 at 5:37pm |
loobilooPrivate Detective
Posts : 598
Joined: 3 APR 2008
Location: UK
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Karsten (15 JUN 2008 9:04am)
I think that there's some holiday going on in the UK right now? so we might not see a response from G2 before tomorrow or during the next week..
Hi Karsten, sadly, there's no holiday(s) in the UK at the moment, no more until the end of August!
I've never really played any RPGs (I've got a couple to try when I get round to it) but in LOTL there is one level - the town I think - where a lot of the locations seemed very familiar? I didn't think about it at the time but now wonder in what game I've seen them before?
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| 15 JUN 2008 at 7:12pm |
NikolasIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 40
Joined: 20 JUL 2007
Status : Online | stories are NOT copyrighted. This is why you get 50% of adventure games with pirates! And the other 30% start locked in jail and you need to find out why, and the other 20% is about some bad guy becoming good... (for example...)
Names can be trademarked.
Ideas can be patented
Art can be copyrighted.
http://www.nikolas-sideris.com&&http://www.cgempire.com
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| 15 JUN 2008 at 7:49pm |
STooGE4444, EastCoastDoom...Schattenjger
Posts : 2099
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Nikolas (15 JUN 2008 7:11pm)
stories are NOT copyrighted. This is why you get 50% of adventure games with pirates! And the other 30% start locked in jail and you need to find out why, and the other 20% is about some bad guy becoming good... (for example...)
Names can be trademarked.
Ideas can be patented
Art can be copyrighted.
As far as US Copyright law, the plot and characters in stories have always been a tricky and difficult beast in terms of expression. The important aspect to know is that the form of expression is copyrighted but not necessarily the actual idea. Also, as soon as you create copyrightable material in a physical medium, it's copyrighted.
The area of Copyrights and Patents is always a hard field to play because of interpretation and current acting laws and regulations. I fear that the intrinsic problems within these areas may never be solved because of interpretation of the laws.
Unfortunately, I know not much about copyright law outside of the US.
Here's some links for the US Copyright office:
General FAQ
What is protected?
~rbeeler SVT &&Name's STooGE$$$$ Valpurgius TNT; it's not PLURAL&&[img]http://www.riseaboverecords.com/sleep/image/sleepfront.gif[/img]&&151.Generally speaking Sludge Doomsters are Angry, Gothic doomsters are sad, funeral doomsters are barely breathing, death doomsters are dirty, drunk and dribbling, Stoner Doomsters don't care, drone doomsters are out of it and traditional Doomsters are permanently pissed off, mainly with other doomsters
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| 15 JUN 2008 at 8:02pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6694
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Online | .
Originally Posted By Nikolas (15 JUN 2008 7:11pm)
stories are NOT copyrighted. This is why you get 50% of adventure games with pirates! And the other 30% start locked in jail and you need to find out why, and the other 20% is about some bad guy becoming good... (for example...)
Names can be trademarked.
Ideas can be patented
Art can be copyrighted.
Stories are very much copyightable Nik. Book titles and basic story types are not. But all unique written and recorded content is eligible for copyright protection under the law. That includes novels, non-fiction works, short stories, poems, song lyrics, musical compositions, performances, plays, movie dialog, TV/radio scripts, designs, artworks, and even ad copy, magazine articles, news stories, editorial comments, technical manuals, educational materials, and virtually anything else that involves ideas expressed in an original way.
These things are automatically covered for the creator by law and do not need to be registered with any government agency. It is however a good practice to do so, as are trademarking and patenting - simply because it clearly establishes ownership and provides a public record for possible infringement cases.
There are also some broad exceptions for the legal use of copyrighted materials for pure research, legitimate jounalism, schools, and other generally non-profit ventures. Commercial use though is totally restricted and these developers unquestionably broke the law knowingly numerous times.
Cheers, Terry
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| 15 JUN 2008 at 8:59pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (15 JUN 2008 8:01pm)
There are also some broad exceptions for the legal use of copyrighted materials for pure research, legitimate jounalism, schools, and other generally non-profit ventures. Commercial use though is totally restricted <snip>.
Such as the case of the Harry Potter fan site that discusses all things Harry Potter. Even Rowling was on there helping people and giving a bit of feedback on some backgrounds. It was all for research and non-profit. However, the owner of the site then decided to take all of that material, put it in a book and sell it as The Harry Potter Lexicon (or something like that). Rowling then took them to court for violating her copyright. Not sure if that case is still being tried or what the outcome was.
Everything created has been influenced by something else. Whether it be through nature or other people's previous work. Sometimes it's done consciously and sometimes subconsciously. In rare cases it's just a natural progression followed by many people around the world as a logical next step. AD& came from the works of Tolkien. Halflings are based on Hobbits. Those were done consciously.
Even Rowling admits that, "she may have inadvertently taken the name from the hogwort plant (Croton capitatus), which she had seen at Kew Gardens some time before writing the Harry Potter series." She doesn't know if she did or not but she says it is possible. Heck, she might have even gotten it from the 80's movie Labyrinth. I was watching it earlier today and Jennifer Connelly would mis-pronounce Hoggle's name as HogWort. That would be an example of using something subconsciously. Doesn't really matter because there was no intention to steal, nor did she blatantly rip anyone off. Limbo of the Lost however is an entirely different matter.
I do think some people are starting to go to extremes with finding things. In some cases they have found unquestionable proof, in others they are stretching it.
Going back to what Terry has said about 'types' of stories not being copyrighted, why do you think lots of movie with the same theme running through them come out around the same time and no one is dragging anyone else to court? For Armageddon there was Deep Impact. For Volcano there was Dante's Peak. For The Matrix there was The 13th Floor. All of these pairings came out in the same years. All it takes is one studio hearing of the concept surrounding another movie, they like it and decide to make their own movie using the same concept. Apparently this is ok as I've never heard of anyone going to court over these things. :-/
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| 15 JUN 2008 at 9:57pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6694
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Online | .
Nor should we allow lawsuits for variations on basic themes Ivinia. Otherwise the creative process would come to a screeching halt and the entire entertainment industry would disappear.
As a creative professional with over thirty years experience, I've been through dozens of legal cases where infringement was clear, extensive, and intentional. But for every one of them there have been hundreds of examples where people have used original copy ideas, designs, effects, etc. created by me and/or my associates for inspiration. We have done the very same on numerous occasions but we're always very careful not to blatantly plagarize and we never ever knowingly violate copyrights or trademarks.
I have also run into a few real lowlifes in my industry that liberally steal other people's work and falsely claim it as their own for profit. But they are usually ferreted out pretty quickly and in the end, people that have real talent can easily prove authorship by demonstrating their ability to write, design, illustrate or compose completely original works in the same style and/or in a variety of other styles. A no-talent fake simply can't do that and even the best forgers generally lack an original style of their own.
Cheers, Terry
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| 16 JUN 2008 at 2:07am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16552
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I wondered how long it would take before someone brought up the book publishing industry. Plagiarism is any writer's nightmare. Everyone is influenced by Real Life when creating their fictional stories just as they are drawing from real people when they create characters. To invent a truly original story would make it unintelligible to humans. Think about it. We all need to understand the references being made.
However, blatantly copying material previously created by others is theft in any industry. And as such the publishers of this game are just as much the victim as book publishers who then discover their new author has stolen their work or misrepresented themselves in some way. The blame lies with the original liars.
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| 16 JUN 2008 at 5:16am |
GonchiSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 337
Joined: 24 SEP 2007
Status : Online | On an entirely unrelated note, has anyone noticed the sudden rise in demand for the game? There's currently a copy being auctioned on eBay at $61 with 21 bids, and 30 people have listed it in their wanted lists at GameTZ.
Makes me wonder if this wasn't their plan all along...
But I'm not so complicated as to flee, &&or stand here in silence. &&But I'm not so simple as to not caution, &&that there aren't three minutes, or a hundred words, that could define me.&&&&[url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlR-6Tw-5bE]Brief description of my person[/url] - Cuarteto de Nos
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| 16 JUN 2008 at 5:46am |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ivinia (15 JUN 2008 8:58pm)
Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (15 JUN 2008 8:01pm)
Even Rowling admits that, "she may have inadvertently taken the name from the hogwort plant (Croton capitatus), which she had seen at Kew Gardens some time before writing the Harry Potter series." She doesn't know if she did or not but she says it is possible. Heck, she might have even gotten it from the 80's movie Labyrinth. I was watching it earlier today and Jennifer Connelly would mis-pronounce Hoggle's name as HogWort. That would be an example of using something subconsciously. Doesn't really matter because there was no intention to steal, nor did she blatantly rip anyone off. Limbo of the Lost however is an entirely different matter.
Or stolen the main character character from Neil Gaiman's Book of Magic series.
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 16 JUN 2008 at 6:26am |
NikolasIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 40
Joined: 20 JUL 2007
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (15 JUN 2008 8:01pm)
.
Originally Posted By Nikolas (15 JUN 2008 7:11pm)
stories are NOT copyrighted. This is why you get 50% of adventure games with pirates! And the other 30% start locked in jail and you need to find out why, and the other 20% is about some bad guy becoming good... (for example...)
Names can be trademarked.
Ideas can be patented
Art can be copyrighted.
Stories are very much copyightable Nik. Book titles and basic story types are not. But all unique written and recorded content is eligible for copyright protection under the law. That includes novels, non-fiction works, short stories, poems, song lyrics, musical compositions, performances, plays, movie dialog, TV/radio scripts, designs, artworks, and even ad copy, magazine articles, news stories, editorial comments, technical manuals, educational materials, and virtually anything else that involves ideas expressed in an original way.
Terry (and everyone). Sorry I should be more clear.
Stories (such as wording), are copyrighted, and cannot be copied, yes, but the ideas behind them cannot.
That was my point.
There's nothing to stop me from creating... a very simmilar pirate game as MI, for example. Just change the names and I'm fine. If the references are too strong, ok, but in general the ideas are not copyrighted, not at all actually!
If you think about it there are 10-20 types of stories in all. You can't copyright that! How many young people lose their parents and btw discover their wonderful powers within as well? And then avenge the death of their parents? That's what I mean.
And yes, I know very well that there's no legal need for copyright registration, other than further protection in case of a problem, etc. But everything is automatically in Greece and the UK as well!
And, btw, plagiarism is not illegal, is it? It's not copyright infrigment...
http://www.nikolas-sideris.com&&http://www.cgempire.com
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| 16 JUN 2008 at 9:55am |
CulturaJourneyman
Posts : 1337
Joined: 1 SEP 2004
Location: NL, Amersfoort
Status : Offline | Don't know about where you live, but here in The Netherlands plagiarism is indeed an offence. It is an infringement on the 'intellectual copyright'. Punishable by law. And so it should be.
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| 16 JUN 2008 at 1:26pm |
NikolasIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 40
Joined: 20 JUL 2007
Status : Online | I'm in the UK, at the moment (should edit my profile at some point... :-[)
From wiki:
Plagiarism is different from copyright infringement. While both terms may apply to a particular act, they emphasize different aspects of the transgression. Copyright infringement is a violation of the rights of the copyright holder, when material is used without the copyright holder's consent. On the other hand, plagiarism is concerned with the unearned increment to the plagiarizing author's reputation that is achieved through false claims of authorship.
And I also know that within the academia, where I'm a part of (doing my PhD), so my opinion on that might be biased slightly (on the legallity of things).
So I'll probably shut up now!
http://www.nikolas-sideris.com&&http://www.cgempire.com
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| 17 JUN 2008 at 6:57am |
STooGE4444, EastCoastDoom...Schattenjger
Posts : 2099
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | See what's interesting is that I can't really think of any games that have this kind history coming into mainstream headlines. And to think how many games there have been in the last 25 years....
"Boggles the mind, huh?" as Joshua would say...
Can you guys think of any?
~rbeeler SVT &&Name's STooGE$$$$ Valpurgius TNT; it's not PLURAL&&[img]http://www.riseaboverecords.com/sleep/image/sleepfront.gif[/img]&&151.Generally speaking Sludge Doomsters are Angry, Gothic doomsters are sad, funeral doomsters are barely breathing, death doomsters are dirty, drunk and dribbling, Stoner Doomsters don't care, drone doomsters are out of it and traditional Doomsters are permanently pissed off, mainly with other doomsters
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| 17 JUN 2008 at 3:25pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Nope. There have been some pathetically bad games and those so bug ridden that they are unplayable that should have never been published, but I've never seen one blatantly use assets from other games and gain such notoriety before. There have been some games that shamelessly cloned others, but none that have re wrapped someone else's work and sold it as their own as far as I know.
I'm pretty impressed with Neogaf. They seem pretty focused on downing the game and not the genre or the people who have played or reviewed the game. As a matter of fact, when someone did try to take it in that direction, other members actually defended the genre and the people that play and/or review them. (BTW, Aya is a he )
The Bethesda forums seem to be the worst. One poster got the story so friggn' hosed up I found myself laughing at the shear idiocy of it. According to that poster, all the drama started on JA, then spilled over to GameBoomers and InlandAz was at the center of it all. WTF?!? Accusations are even flying about the reviewers being part of the scam and being paid off! WTF #2?!? Most laughable of all are the comments of how nobody recognized the scenes from other games as though they are idiots. WTF #3?!? Do they really think that just because THEY played a particular game that EVERYONE has played the same game? Not everyone has played Oblivion, and not every adventure gamer on these sites has played Limbo of the Lost either. Use some common sense.
Gotta love the 20/20 hindsight here. One reviewer from GamePlasma says, "Hey! Wait a sec..." and finds Oblivion screens. Then the folks at Neogaf start finding a boatload of other games that GamePlasma never noticed either. Then you've got a bunch of yahoo's saying its so obvious (after everyone else pointed out the theft to them) and calling AGers idiots for not seeing these things. Puleezzeee.... :
Gotta give GamePlasma credit for finding this. Had they not noticed it, then who knows how much further the Limbo guys would have been able to keep this going. Most people just pay a passing glance at screenshots and don't look too closely at them. Most of the screenshots the Limbo crew was putting out had relatively generic looking background scenes that didn't raise any alarms. Once the more obvios screens came up from the reviewer who was actually playing the game though, it got everyone paying much closer attention to the game and finding more stuff and even IDing those generic ones.
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| 17 JUN 2008 at 5:05pm |
KarstenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 347
Joined: 23 SEP 2006
Location: DK
Status : Offline | Here's a post from NeoGaf about this.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11549360&postcount=134
I think it might have been me (as aries202) on the bethsoft forums that made you laugh, Ivinia. It might be that I have misunderstood it all, but I do remember the controversy last december? (december 2007) when a guy named Fable showed up and asked if we have heard about this very good game. Everyone flocked at him untill they noticed that him & steve bovis were one and the same.
As far as I remember Inland did review the game? for gameboomers? I didn't mean to say that Inland was the center of it all;
I just tried to explain to the people on the bethesda forums that Inland did a review and Steve was not happy about the review etc.
It was just a (poorly, maybe?) attempt by me to try to explain some of the back story that now in hindsigt should have flashed every warning sign available to us.
I haven't seen any posts on the bethesda forums stating what you have seen (that may have been because the moderators prune the threads once in a while...). However, I have made a post about this when I say not everyone who play adventure games play other game genres such as rpgs, fps, etc. as well.
It was not to dismiss or belittle adventure gamers or to mock them at all, I made my post explaining this on the bethesda forums.
If some people see it that wa or are burt by it, I sincerely apologize...
edit:
Here's the incident I am referring, too:
http://www.quartertothree.com/game-talk/showthread.php?t=45097&page=2
(please seee flyinj's post on page 2)
and that I was trying to explain to the people at Bethesda's forums.
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| 18 JUN 2008 at 7:44am |
MKBSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 241
Joined: 24 AUG 2006
Status : Offline | Sad state of affairs. I'm feeling a little guilty for buying and liking this game. Can I assume there will be no sequel?
BTW STooGE444: Thanks alot for the Joshua reference! Just when I got that tune out of my head, its back!
wah, wah, wah, wah, giddle-giddle-giddle-giddle wah wah wah
I don't buy download-only games. Never have, never will........Mike
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| 18 JUN 2008 at 6:23pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Karsten (17 JUN 2008 5:05pm)
I think it might have been me (as aries202) on the bethsoft forums that made you laugh, Ivinia. It might be that I have misunderstood it all, but I do remember the controversy last december? (december 2007) when a guy named Fable showed up and asked if we have heard about this very good game. Everyone flocked at him untill they noticed that him & steve bovis were one and the same.
[smiley=rofl.gif] If that's the case, then please accept my sincerest apology! I had been reading several overly negative comments just before I wrote that and was feeling slightly hostile. :-/
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| 18 JUN 2008 at 8:21pm |
KarstenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 347
Joined: 23 SEP 2006
Location: DK
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ivinia (18 JUN 2008 6:23pm)
Originally Posted By Karsten (17 JUN 2008 5:05pm)
I think it might have been me (as aries202) on the bethsoft forums that made you laugh, Ivinia. It might be that I have misunderstood it all, but I do remember the controversy last december? (december 2007) when a guy named Fable showed up and asked if we have heard about this very good game. Everyone flocked at him untill they noticed that him & steve bovis were one and the same.
[smiley=rofl.gif] If that's the case, then please accept my sincerest apology! I had been reading several overly negative comments just before I wrote that and was feeling slightly hostile. :-/
I can understand that how you felt. I also feel get very > and :'( when people who generally know nothing about the adventure game genre say that the point and click is dead and such -ehm- things. I sincerely accept your apology...
However, as I said, the threads are pruned by the moderators on the bethesda forums from time to time so the comment that have been overtly negative or mocking the devs. too much may have been pruned.
I think we can all agree that what the developers of Limbo of the Lost have done is a disgrace... and not representative of the devs. in the adventure game genre...
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| 18 JUN 2008 at 9:28pm |
antlerIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 51
Joined: 28 NOV 2007
Status : Online | The notion that players and perhaps extended to some reviewers that saying they shoulda, woulda noticed the similarity to Oblivion is not a given. I for one play only Adventure games and could not have made any connection to Oblivion or any of the other ripped games. As I have never seen Oblivion screenshots and never had any interest to look at them.
You have to give these guys credit for avoiding obvious rips from Adventure games. They realized an Adventure gamer very likely would not have seen Oblivion. Yes I know some people play many genres but I'd venture a guess most Adventure Gamers stick primarily within that genre. That's the risk or avenue the thieves took and lets face it, it worked. I'm assuming they were paid an advance up front by the European and then North American Publisher. Likely there would be more to come after certain targets were reached as long as the scam was not revealed.
So they played the percentages made some up front money and are likely out of sight. Perhaps they will be located, perhaps not. Depends on how well they covered their tracks and how greedy they were. It is clear they knew what they were doing what is uncertain is how far were they willing to ride this train. Did they go underground well before the con was uncovered? If they are really adept at this, they have a new location, new names and a sequel in the works.
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| 19 JUN 2008 at 7:36am |
STooGE4444, EastCoastDoom...Schattenjger
Posts : 2099
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Ivinia (17 JUN 2008 3:24pm)
According to that poster, all the drama started on JA, then spilled over to GameBoomers and InlandAz was at the center of it all. WTF?!?
I see absolutely nothing wrong with that statement; I am pretty dang sure Inland is at the center of it all and the center is Chock Full O' Nougat...just like the moon...
Originally Posted By Ivinia (17 JUN 2008 3:24pm)
Most laughable of all are the comments of how nobody recognized the scenes from other games as though they are idiots. WTF #3?!? Do they really think that just because THEY played a particular game that EVERYONE has played the same game? Not everyone has played Oblivion, and not every adventure gamer on these sites has played Limbo of the Lost either. Use some common sense.
This is what is so utterly amazing about media as a medium for communication. Just think, if no one had posted about the original comparison, how would've this turned out? Or even if the original screenshot was fake (meaning they did not steal artwork), how much publicity the game would've received. I wonder if there is a way to predict or model this type of behaviour accurately in terms of the interwebs. The big key to all communication is knowing your audience. Thus, if you know your audience well enough, you can probably create the perfect hook to capture them and steal their sole...and their dead mans shoes....
~rbeeler SVT &&Name's STooGE$$$$ Valpurgius TNT; it's not PLURAL&&[img]http://www.riseaboverecords.com/sleep/image/sleepfront.gif[/img]&&151.Generally speaking Sludge Doomsters are Angry, Gothic doomsters are sad, funeral doomsters are barely breathing, death doomsters are dirty, drunk and dribbling, Stoner Doomsters don't care, drone doomsters are out of it and traditional Doomsters are permanently pissed off, mainly with other doomsters
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| 20 JUN 2008 at 6:02am |
STooGE4444, EastCoastDoom...Schattenjger
Posts : 2099
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Here's something of interest: Boomtown reviews LOTL
Although, I've never heard of boomtown (except the Boomtown Family Fun Center) so that I don't know their credibility.
~rbeeler SVT &&Name's STooGE$$$$ Valpurgius TNT; it's not PLURAL&&[img]http://www.riseaboverecords.com/sleep/image/sleepfront.gif[/img]&&151.Generally speaking Sludge Doomsters are Angry, Gothic doomsters are sad, funeral doomsters are barely breathing, death doomsters are dirty, drunk and dribbling, Stoner Doomsters don't care, drone doomsters are out of it and traditional Doomsters are permanently pissed off, mainly with other doomsters
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| 20 JUN 2008 at 7:53am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | I noticed that today as well via GameSpot. My gut feeling was that it's a shameless attempt to get their site noticed on search engines (and sites that use Game Rankings) as this game is probably one of the most googled games out there at the moment. They do have a few (VERY few) AG reviews on that site, but considering just how small Limbo really is in the scheme of things, well, you decide.
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