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| 17 FEB 2003 at 1:36am |
BelindaSchattenjger
Posts : 2093
Joined: 21 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Oh Gayle.......how was that movie you went and seen today?
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| 17 FEB 2003 at 1:57am |
GayleSchattenjger
Posts : 2544
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I put my response just below this one. Really good movie!
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| 17 FEB 2003 at 5:56am |
| Deleted User | Gayle, I do really hope its true!
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| 17 FEB 2003 at 7:42am |
JoGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Location: AU, Qld.
Status : Offline | Gosh, I was typing a reply and the whole thing went off!
Haven't got much time at the moment Gayle, but briefly what Bob Brown wants is a referendum on our troops being in Iraq. Howard is basically ignoring him, but don't know how long he can really after the huge rallies over the weekend. Still he's the Prime Minister so I don't really know if a minor party can force his hand.
I only saw a short piece on a commercial channel this evening but will be watching ABC news tonight to see if there have been any other developments (thats Australian ABC not American)
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| 18 FEB 2003 at 9:50pm |
szcaxJourneyman
Posts : 935
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Gayle (17 FEB 2003 1:01am)
Australia should be proud of itself for listening to it's people and getting out of this mess.
I wish the USA would follow suit.
Black holes are where God divided by zero
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| 19 FEB 2003 at 12:06am |
GayleSchattenjger
Posts : 2544
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | You are not alone with that thought, Szcax. It is very frustrating for me and for a lot of other people.
Bush, I think is now at the point of no return and will go to war no matter what others think including other countries. He has election time coming up but this whole thing may backfire on him.
It is very hard as an American to not be able to do anything and to have the world generalize our populaton as all wanting this war to happen. We are now hated by so many people in so many countries. Either way he goes now, we will be hated for a very long time. :'(
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| 19 FEB 2003 at 5:00am |
| Deleted User | Say my piece? Yep. Here is Janelle, again.
I have never, ever, demonstrated against anything .... i.e marched in the streets, the "mob" mentality. I would hate to be considered the "left wing" type , I am not, I vote "conservative" always have ........ but ......
War has and always will be started by POLITICIANS (males) Usually these pollies "listen" to Polls and etcetera.
They won't this time, believe me. The WAR is on, won't matter what the UN does or how many citizens march or object and the pollies aren't even thinking "next election". They are not reading the "polls" at all .... they have their Agenda .... whatever it is.
What really annoys me is that WE (the West) are the Aggressors ....... and what will that do? USA and it's "allies" are planning to INVADE another country, kill its citizens .... why? To get rid of a "regime" .... rubbish. If the USA is so smart, couldn't they send in "James Bond" of the CIA and assassinate Saddam? No ...... WAR is the answer. These, aging, male, pollies need a brain transfer, or a fatal heart attack!!! I bet that NONE of the "Leaders" in our political society have a clue about "strategy" games, less alone ADVENTURE games and, maybe, that is the problem ........
Don't flame me too much, I am an innocent in Oz ......
Janelle
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| 19 FEB 2003 at 7:25am |
JoGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Location: AU, Qld.
Status : Offline | Wow, good on you Janelle, I see Blair's popularity has plummeted to minus 20%!! What I can't understand is that according the a newspoll here, Howard is still ahead of Simon Crean (Labor leader in Oz for those who don't know). Never used to like him but at least he's talking more sense than "Little Johnny Eyebrows".
We didn't march as there were no demonstrations on the Gold Coast and didn't realise there was anything in Brisbane till it was too late.
Like you, we have never demonstrated about anything, but would certainly be prepared to if it would help stop a totally unnecessary war.
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| 20 FEB 2003 at 1:29am |
GayleSchattenjger
Posts : 2544
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | It is a totally unnecessary war and my country is carrying the banner so to speak.
Janelle is right. It makes no difference, the decision has been made, I wish I were wrong but Bush has to run for re-election soon and has to have something to bring to the table. Why he can't bring something like boosting our economy (which is in the toilet) instead of this insane production is beyond me.
Of course, picture this - either way my country has decided that they are the world's heroes, protectors, whatever you want to call it. Now, I don't mean the people, I mean the politicians.
If we go to war, we kill thousands of others and thousands of americans and would probably win but why? I get the feeling that if we did blow everyone to bits it is just an incentive to go do it somewhere else.
If we don't go to war, the politicians will close their eyes and stick a pin in some other part of the world and go there to cause problems.
I notice in some of the posts the hatred for America. It bothers me but remember that not all of us want this to happen, okay?
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| 20 FEB 2003 at 6:56am |
JoGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Location: AU, Qld.
Status : Offline | Don't think people hate America as a country but unfortunately Bush and his crew are probably seen by some as representative of the populations views - which I very much doubt. It's the same here, Howard doesn't represent the views of most Australians but won't admit it. The Greens and Labor have been getting stuck in to him but I think he's got to the point where he likes strutting about on the world stage. It would be pathetic if it wasn't so potentially dangerous.
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| 20 FEB 2003 at 11:26am |
msadvIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 66
Joined: 1 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Bush has painted himself into a corner and will go to war not to lose face. Sad thing is, he could have come out of this a winner by claiming victory for getting the inspection team back in Iraq. But no, his administration has done nothing but trivialize and undermine the U.N. and inspectors so there's no backing down now. Blair is squeezed for sure and he may be the only hope if there is one shred of possibility for restraint. I can tell you, lots of Americans are sick over this. We have never been a pro active nation. This sort of changes our history as well as how we are viewed by the rest of the world. N Korea has missles that can reach the Western U.S. Hello? Why are we attacking Iraq? Oil maybe?
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| 20 FEB 2003 at 7:55pm |
JoGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Location: AU, Qld.
Status : Offline | Why are we attacking Iraq? Oil maybe?
My husband has just this morning received an email from an acquaitance saying that he believes that it's because 3 Arab nations have changed to the Euro dollar. Here is part of the quote:
The big problem now that is making Rice so adamant about going into
Iraq is three arab nations have shifted to euros only
They want to be paid in euros for oil ? NOT dollars!!!
This would mean that all of the money that American oil firms make off
these deals would vanish!
The reason Germany and France don't want a war is this Euro deal helps
them more than anyone else!
Of course who knows how much truth there is in this, I personally don't know the source that it originally came from, but I guess it's possible.
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| 20 FEB 2003 at 8:07pm |
JoGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Location: AU, Qld.
Status : Offline | The article goes on to say:
China also has a big bite of euros ? they have bought a lot of them ?
Sort of as economic blackmail against the US! Not just by China, but by
many nations who would like to see the US come down a peg or two.
The US could force the NEW Iraqi government to accept US dollar$$ ?
THAT'S the reason for war at this time!!
If you think about it, this goes hand in hand with the major purchases
of gold ? Like you have been saying for years, the euro has some gold
backing ? Germany is one of the gold holders of the euro!
Iraq shifted out of dollars in 97 or 98 ? the would not accept dollars
for oil after that ? the US has been buying oil from European brokers ?
as a result of having to pay for it in Euros, what was once a 10B
deal now costs 15 ? 18B in Euros!
If all OPEC companies refuse to accept dollars for oil ? then NO ONE
will want dollars and there will be a run on the banks! The dollars
will be worthless ? the US will have to change ? maybe to script. No
one wants an Argentine dollar! And that's about what the US dollar will
be at this point!
Too much more to copy here but I can get the site for anyone interested, just running out of time as usual.
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| 20 FEB 2003 at 8:18pm |
GayleSchattenjger
Posts : 2544
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | That is an interesting article. Heard a little about the euro thing on way to work this morning. If true, no wonder the conservatives are trying to say that France and Germany opinions aren't worth anything and make fun of them on the TV and radio and newspapers.
A co-worker yesterday was saying that France and Germany have sold weapons to Iraq in the past and I said, and we haven't. Of course we have sold to them and anyone else who would take them, same as every other country on this earth.
Okay, here is silly time. Listening to the news on way into work this morning. Some italian restaurant here in the USA said that they will no longer serve french wine in their restaurant and some idiot down in Florida who owns a restaurant threw out all his german and french wines as a protest against those countries.
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| 21 FEB 2003 at 8:40pm |
JoGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Location: AU, Qld.
Status : Offline | Some italian restaurant here in the USA said that they will no longer serve french wine in their restaurant and some idiot down in Florida who owns a restaurant threw out all his german and french wines as a protest against those countries.
The stupidity of some people never ceases to amaze me and all the information I have ever read states that USA sold more arms, chemical weapons etc to Iraq than any other country and that was -I think - when there was conflict with Iran. Pretty sure that Britain did as well, any country would if it were to bring more money into their own economy.
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| 21 FEB 2003 at 11:27pm |
GayleSchattenjger
Posts : 2544
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Of course we did sell arms and will continue to do so but you know what I bet there are millions in this country who don't think that we would do something like that and I am surprised Bush isn't singing Onward Christian Soldiers right now. I am not the chosen people, I do not want a war like this one.
One scarey thought on thinking of this is if we go to war I bet that there will be what we call rednecks who will start fighting with Iraqs here or Muslims here or anyone who looks foreign. That also is scarey. It happened after 9-11.
Well, I hope Australia pulls out and am rooting for it.
Now, I guess we just wait but it just doesn't seem that we will back out of this as we are putting more troops in the area. :-/
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 12:25am |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | As a German representative on this forum I just want to tell you that I don't think that all US citizens are in favor of a military strike against Iraq. I still think that government and general population are two different matters which have to be separated.
Don't want to turn this into a hot spot topic, but I would even go that far to call USA's democracy betrayed by the last election.
Bush was not rightfully elected. Period.
Don't you think so as well?
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 12:52am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Elfstone (22 FEB 2003 12:25am)
Don't want to turn this into a hot spot topic, but I would even go that far to call USA's democracy betrayed by the last election.
Bush was not rightfully elected. Period.
Don't you think so as well?
While the election was questionable to say the least, he is the president of the United States. Period
I forgot my sig.
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 7:00am |
JoGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Location: AU, Qld.
Status : Offline | Well, I hope Australia pulls out and am rooting for it.
The general consensus seems to be that it would be very difficult if not impossible for Australia to pull out now even if they wanted to unfortunately because some people think that Howard has made some secret promise to Bush. How true that is I couldn't say, just have to hope it's wrong.
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| 22 FEB 2003 at 1:40pm |
GayleSchattenjger
Posts : 2544
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Or Bush promised Howard something. I would imagine that is how the big world game is played, money, promises back and forth to get something from someone.
The radio commentators, one in particular (he is so far right he never makes left turns), are making fun of France and Germany. Just ripping them apart. Imagine the White House is trying bribes, everything they can to make them come into line.
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