| 18 JUN 2008 at 2:04am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Terry
You have defended this game most eloquently - even ardently perhaps. It's obvious that you actually enjoyed the game not only for its production values but possibly the story as well. You big softie.... :-*
I suppose next you'll be admitting that you actually don't mind watching women's movies.
|
| 18 JUN 2008 at 2:32am |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Caroline (18 JUN 2008 2:04am)
I suppose next you'll be admitting that you actually don't mind watching women's movies.
One need only a sense of humour and a heart in one's chest rather than a stone, I should think, madam. Mind you, someone to watch them with greatly helps, too, of course.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
|
| 18 JUN 2008 at 3:46am |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Yes, I enjoyed the story in Syberia 1 and 2 from beginning to end. Also thought the art direction was superb and some of the music was just great.
As for chick flicks, I can only take so much Hollywood-style melodrama and teary-eyed sappiness. I good, honest love story is fine though... just as long as there are plenty of cool FX, big explosions, chase scenes, bar fights, and childish dirty jokes in between the smooching. Aliens and laser weapons help too.
Cheers, Terry
|
| 18 JUN 2008 at 5:00am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I think I saw that movie Terry. Earth Girls are Easy with Jeff Goldblum and ... oh damn.... er... tall girl, dimples.... used to be Commander in Chief....
|
| 18 JUN 2008 at 1:39pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By Caroline (18 JUN 2008 4:59am)
I think I saw that movie Terry. Earth Girls are Easy with Jeff Goldblum and ... oh damn.... er... tall girl, dimples.... used to be Commander in Chief....
Yep, she (Geena) also used to date a giant housefly and her best friend's name was Louise.
Cheers, Terry
|
| 19 JUN 2008 at 3:31pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Lurker01 (16 JUN 2008 6:19am)
Oh, and avatar_58, I'm not sure if you've realised this, but Syberia isn't about a lawyer who has to go on a journey to track someone down and make him sign a contract. It's about a young woman who starts out thinking that her life was fine with family, friends, a stable boyfriend and a decent job, only to find that it all starts to unravel quickly if she isn't around to maintain it and it probably wasn't as good as she thought it was to begin with.
However that story was told through phone calls and side messages. It was never the main focus, and if it was - Sokal failed to make that clear. Much of the game's time was spent doing mundane tasks and silly 'adventure-game logic' events. The kidnapping part especially made my eys roll. It just seemed like they were throwing everything but the kitchen sink at me while still shoving the family nonsense at the same time through phone calls.
Sokal wanted to make this deep story about her life direction, family issues and finding herself but accidently threw an adventure game in between it. If her story had been the main focus instead of trucking around that robot and searching for Hans then maybe this game would have been interesting to me. Instead I couldn't care less about her as a character or her struggles. I kept wishing she'd throw that cell phone in a lake. But then I also didn't enjoy the adventure game-esque events either, as they were quite dull and out of place. The drink mixing was the ultimate slap in the face as it had nothing to do with the story or the current event at hand. It's like he suddenly decided "oh crap, we need puzzles" and tossed it in.
I'm still holding that Syberia and games like it are what's wrong with the genre. I like story-only adventures, otherwise I wouldn't be sporting a Phoenix Wright avatar picture would I? However if the story is uninteresting and disjointed I really don't feel like continuing. I finished Syberia 1, but I couldn't be arsed to even buy the second since I know it would only be more of the same.
Also, and I'm not trying to start an arguement here so forgive me, but why do the defenders take this "well you didn't get it" approach? Syberia isn't some massive artform, it's a game. It's a story, and an acquired taste at that. While I'm willing to see some folks obviously love it, I can't help but slam it for starting a movement towards gameplay-less adventues with "realistic" storylines. I'm all for some realism in games, but not when it chokes me with it. I find it interesting that the off the wall adventures seem to be the ones remembered, and it's for a reason. Now I'm not saying I hate games like Still-Life or Overclocked with their 'gritty' type of stories.....but I feel like developers have lost the gift of imagination. What ever happened to fantastical events? Silly scenearios?
A lot of adventure game fans hate Myst for what it did to the genre, and I understand that. However I turn around and transfer that hate towards Syberia for starting another such trend. I'd complain about The Longest Journey too, but at least that game was interesting and unique despite sharing many of Syberia's faults.
|
| 19 JUN 2008 at 4:22pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Now you see Avatar_58, this is where we disagree.
I liked the story, characters, settings, and dialog in Syberia very much and appreciated the cellphone calls as a clever device for revealing details about Kate's life back home. Her boss, mother, fiance and best friend called frequently because that's exactly what people do these days and each call served a very specific purpose for fleshing Kate's character out and for providing reasons that drove her further and further away from the hassles of modern society - toward the unknown adventure that lay ahead.
It created a comfortable tempo of emotional motivation that felt quite natural. It was not rushed or melodramatic. It was slow, steady and believable. Moreover, that element created a nice balance between the fantastic and the mundane. This kept the player wondering right up to the very last second, "Will she cave in to the work / family pressures and return home like a good little girl or will she finally break out, declare her independence and go for it?"
At the beginning of the sequel, she has just made that life-changing decision and is about to embark on the final leg of her journey into the increasingly cold, stark, dangerous, wondrous world of Syberia. Playing the games back to back felt seamless and right. The sequel was also a series of glorious new scenics and interesting characters with just enough puzzle challenge to keep the gameplay interesting.
Some people hated the ending but I found it perfectly fitting and emotionally fulfilling. It also provided proper closure to the main story and even better, (at the time) it kept alive the possibility of future adventures with a much stronger, more independent Kate Walker.
Cheers, Terry
.
|
| 19 JUN 2008 at 6:03pm |
Lurker01Private Detective
Posts : 411
Joined: 23 JUN 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By avatar_58 (19 JUN 2008 3:30pm)
Originally Posted By Lurker01 (16 JUN 2008 6:19am)
Oh, and avatar_58, I'm not sure if you've realised this, but Syberia isn't about a lawyer who has to go on a journey to track someone down and make him sign a contract. It's about a young woman who starts out thinking that her life was fine with family, friends, a stable boyfriend and a decent job, only to find that it all starts to unravel quickly if she isn't around to maintain it and it probably wasn't as good as she thought it was to begin with.
However that story was told through phone calls and side messages. It was never the main focus, and if it was - Sokal failed to make that clear. Much of the game's time was spent doing mundane tasks and silly 'adventure-game logic' events. The kidnapping part especially made my eys roll. It just seemed like they were throwing everything but the kitchen sink at me while still shoving the family nonsense at the same time through phone calls.
Sokal wanted to make this deep story about her life direction, family issues and finding herself but accidentally threw an adventure game in between it. If her story had been the main focus instead of trucking around that robot and searching for Hans then maybe this game would have been interesting to me. Instead I couldn't care less about her as a character or her struggles. I kept wishing she'd throw that cell phone in a lake. But then I also didn't enjoy the adventure game-esque events either, as they were quite dull and out of place. The drink mixing was the ultimate slap in the face as it had nothing to do with the story or the current event at hand. It's like he suddenly decided "oh crap, we need puzzles" and tossed it in.
I'm still holding that Syberia and games like it are what's wrong with the genre. I like story-only adventures, otherwise I wouldn't be sporting a Phoenix Wright avatar picture would I? However if the story is uninteresting and disjointed I really don't feel like continuing. I finished Syberia 1, but I couldn't be arsed to even buy the second since I know it would only be more of the same.
Also, and I'm not trying to start an argument here so forgive me, but why do the defenders take this "well you didn't get it" approach? Because you seem to have completely missed what they were trying to do. If the style just doesn't work for you then so be it, but claiming that the game was awful or that the plot was uninteresting and disjointed is going too far. Also, if the style doesn't work for you then the "well you don't get it" argument is likely to be correct. You tend to give the strong impression that you were looking for something, didn't get it and got annoyed at other details which, while they add to the game, you saw as getting in the way.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
|
| 19 JUN 2008 at 6:40pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Lurker01 (19 JUN 2008 6:03pm)
Because you seem to have completely missed what they were trying to do. If the style just doesn't work for you then so be it, but claiming that the game was awful or that the plot was uninteresting and disjointed is going too far. Also, if the style doesn't work for you then the "well you don't get it" argument is likely to be correct. You tend to give the strong impression that you were looking for something, didn't get it and got annoyed at other details which, while they add to the game, you saw as getting in the way.
Thats because I strongly disagree about the details of this game. I honestly believe folks think they see more than there is to see with this game. It's like we played two different games. What feels like a really shallow romp through an art gallery to me seems to really make some people happy.
As far as I'm concered we wouldn't be having this debate if Syberia was released in the 90's with VGA graphics. I think it would largely be ignored and slammed for it's design. *That* is what bothers me. I don't like seeing games like this set on a pedestle simply because there isn't much else to compare it to.
Indigo Prophecy sort of met the same fate. Folks praised it but only because it was a dim gem amongst rocks. It wasn't that great but since hey - theres not much else let's slap an adventure game of the year award on it. Thats how I feel Syberia was treated. Thats sort of the point of this thread - to point out how I feel it's grossly overrated.
It's like the Halo of adventure games - beloved but for the wrong reasons.
|
| 20 JUN 2008 at 1:22am |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By avatar_58 (19 JUN 2008 6:39pm)
...
It's like the Halo of adventure games - beloved but for the wrong reasons.
Nonsense, the Halo series is popular because it gives the mass market exactly what it wants. It makes a ton of money because the developer and publisher read that market with total accuracy and then provided a highly polished product that matches prevailing consumer tastes on a console platform that many millions of people around the world have enthusiastically adopted. Final Fantasy, Pokemon, Mario, etc. accomplish the same thing.
To a much smaller degree, Syberia did the same thing too. It suited the tastes of many people and its relatively low degree of difficulty was calculated to reach a wider audience than typical point and click PC AGs do these days.
You just don't like the fact that the game was purposely kept simple for appealing to beginners, casual players, and other gamers that don't normally buy PC adventures BECAUSE they are usually very difficult. In every other department (including the story), Syberia was far above average and in several areas it was truly superb.
Again, it was not overrated one bit. It was an excellent (albeit easy) game that just didn't happen to appeal to you personally.
Cheers, Terry
.
|
| 20 JUN 2008 at 1:54am |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By avatar_58 (19 JUN 2008 6:39pm)
It's like the Halo of adventure games - beloved but for the wrong reasons.
Straying off-topic a little, I'd be curious to hear what you think the supposed wrong reasons are in Halo's case. Having played a large number of shooters in my day I found Halo to be of particularly high quality, actually: its simplicity, science-fiction setting, excellent voice acting and balanced difficulty settings all contributed to an excellent whole which held my attention from beginning to end, unlike a lot of other games of its ilk.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
|
| 20 JUN 2008 at 3:20am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline |
Avatar_58
Having read every post in this thread - some of them twice - and weighed up all the evidence, notwithstanding the red herrings of Myst and Halo and god spare us The Longest ConversationI have reached my conclusion that you simply don't 'get' Syberia. [smiley=rofl.gif]
|
| 20 JUN 2008 at 6:00am |
Lurker01Private Detective
Posts : 411
Joined: 23 JUN 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By avatar_58 (19 JUN 2008 6:39pm)
Originally Posted By Lurker01 (19 JUN 2008 6:03pm)
Because you seem to have completely missed what they were trying to do. If the style just doesn't work for you then so be it, but claiming that the game was awful or that the plot was uninteresting and disjointed is going too far. Also, if the style doesn't work for you then the "well you don't get it" argument is likely to be correct. You tend to give the strong impression that you were looking for something, didn't get it and got annoyed at other details which, while they add to the game, you saw as getting in the way.
Thats because I strongly disagree about the details of this game. I honestly believe folks think they see more than there is to see with this game. It's like we played two different games. What feels like a really shallow romp through an art gallery to me seems to really make some people happy. We see things you don't, but it's very arrogant to assume that because you don't see them, they aren't there.
Indigo Prophecy sort of met the same fate. Folks praised it but only because it was a dim gem amongst rocks. It wasn't that great but since hey - theres not much else let's slap an adventure game of the year award on it. Thats how I feel Syberia was treated. Thats sort of the point of this thread - to point out how I feel it's grossly overrated. Indigo Prophecy was pretty good for the first 50% of the game. The controls were a little difficult, and I won't deny that the last half of the game was awful, but then again, neither will most people who played it. Even the creators of the game admit they screwed that up.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
|
| 22 JUN 2008 at 12:00am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I have started replaying Syberia (am in the mammoth cave) and once again, the atmosphere and music has entranced me - along with Katie's capacious pockets. She happily stashed a half log into her inside pocket but then got all squeamish about carrying a wet oar. One minute she's Lara Croft, the next she's Barbie.
|
| 22 JUN 2008 at 12:24am |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Caroline (22 JUN 2008 12:00am)
I have started replaying Syberia (am in the mammoth cave) and once again, the atmosphere and music has entranced me - along with Katie's capacious pockets. She happily stashed a half log into her inside pocket but then got all squeamish about carrying a wet oar. One minute she's Lara Croft, the next she's Barbie.
Yes, I too found the whole "Eww, it's weeeet!!" business altogether incongruous. I also found it rather exploitative: "I don't want to get my hands dirty, so I'll get this simple-minded boy to lug around this wet oar for me!" :-/
You can't kill someone in a studio.
|
| 22 JUN 2008 at 4:59am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I'm going to pay special attention to some issues that I had when I first played this game. For one, I found Kate to be quite rude and imperious but when I found out it was written by a Frenchman I put this down to ignorance and prejudice on his part, you know, stereotyping the brash New Yorker. I do recall being distinctly offended by the way she spoke to some people. This was my first experience playing 3rd person games with conversation and I was annoyed that my character wasn't as polite as I would be in real life.
So instead of focusing on the game and trying to solve the puzzles, this time round I know the answers so I'll take a closer look at the other details and see how I feel about them 6 years on.
|
| 6 JUL 2008 at 8:47pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (6 JUL 2008 6:13pm)
I found Syberia's environments to be sterile. The puzzles to be average. The "story" empty. The character walked slow. Plodding pacing. Haven't been motivated to play Syberia 2 in the 5 years that I have owned it. I'll probably throw it out one day.
"No comment other than I personally enjoyed Syberia and the sequel. Played together, they are bascially one seamless game that IMO is better than average overall and far superior to most in terms of artistry. Sorry you disliked it so much.
Cheers, Terry"
Obviously this was a lie. No comment? You haven't stopped repeating yourself for the entire thread. Whenever you find an opposing agreement, you don't stop repeating yourself until the other person gives up or the thread dies with you having the last word. Learn to deal with opposing opinions.
Obviously shadow9d9 is an unpleasant, little troll that needs to crawl back into whatever dark, dank hole he calls a lair.
And no, my original reply in this thread was not a "lie". It was all I had to say to Avatar_58 at the time he made his initial post. Immediately after that, no less than seven other forum members made replies and brought up numerous additional points - that in some cases I commented on. From there, several other people joined in and expressed a variety of opinions about Syberia 1 and 2, to which I replied (unlike the trollishly creepy shadow9d9) intelligently, constructively and civilly.
You will also notice that shadow9d9's first above quote was not even taken from Avatar_58's first post - a typically sleazy tactic that trolls like this use to stir up trouble.
Aren't forum trolls a sad, pathetic lot?
Cheers, Terry
|
| 7 JUL 2008 at 1:23am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | The only lie I'd expect to come from your lips Terry is if your ladyfriend asks you 'Do you think my bum looks big in this?'
But then, seeing as you once described your fair squeeze as having a delectable derrière I don't suppose she will ever put you to the trouble....
So can you please stop lying about your game preferences and tell us exactly, in clear language, with no deception, what your true opinion of Syberia was? [smiley=rofl.gif]
|
| 7 JUL 2008 at 5:44pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By Caroline (7 JUL 2008 1:23am)
The only lie I'd expect to come from your lips Terry is if your ladyfriend asks you 'Do you think my bum looks big in this?'
But then, seeing as you once described your fair squeeze as having a delectable derrière I don't suppose she will ever put you to the trouble....
So can you please stop lying about your game preferences and tell us exactly, in clear language, with no deception, what your true opinion of Syberia was? [smiley=rofl.gif]
Why thanks for reminding me that my "ladyfriend" still has one of the cutest tushes around Caroline. She's been away on business and I've been wondering why I miss her so much.
As for my true opinion of Syberia - Like many other adventure games, it helped pass the time pleasantly in between gropes of the aforementioned derrière, so I guess it must have been okay.
BTW, has anyone else noticed how much Oscar sounds like Tim Gunn on a teleconference speaker?
Cheers, Terry
|
| 7 JUL 2008 at 8:09pm |
| Deleted User | Wow! This thread is becoming really interesting at last! 8-)
/me gets out the popcorn, and settles herself more comfortably in her old typist's chair......
This is better than Wimbledon, I'd say!
Come on, Terry! Here's a good opportunity to get rid of those frustrations while 'Ladyfriend' is away........
|
| 7 JUL 2008 at 8:23pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (7 JUL 2008 5:36pm)
Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (6 JUL 2008 8:47pm)
.
Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (6 JUL 2008 6:13pm)
I found Syberia's environments to be sterile. The puzzles to be average. The "story" empty. The character walked slow. Plodding pacing. Haven't been motivated to play Syberia 2 in the 5 years that I have owned it. I'll probably throw it out one day.
"No comment other than I personally enjoyed Syberia and the sequel. Played together, they are bascially one seamless game that IMO is better than average overall and far superior to most in terms of artistry. Sorry you disliked it so much.
Cheers, Terry"
Obviously this was a lie. No comment? You haven't stopped repeating yourself for the entire thread. Whenever you find an opposing agreement, you don't stop repeating yourself until the other person gives up or the thread dies with you having the last word. Learn to deal with opposing opinions.
Obviously shadow9d9 is an unpleasant, little troll that needs to crawl back into whatever dark, dank hole he calls a lair.
And no, my original reply in this thread was not a "lie". It was all I had to say to Avatar_58 at the time he made his initial post. Immediately after that, no less than seven other forum members made replies and brought up numerous additional points - that in some cases I commented on. From there, several other people joined in and expressed a variety of opinions about Syberia 1 and 2, to which I replied (unlike the trollishly creepy shadow9d9) intelligently, constructively and civilly.
You will also notice that shadow9d9's first above quote was not even taken from Avatar_58's first post - a typically sleazy tactic that trolls like this use to stir up trouble.
Aren't forum trolls a sad, pathetic lot?
Cheers, Terry
I love how you personally attack someone instead of the message and try to do it in a subtle way as to avoid being moderated(obviously shadow9d9 is an unpleasant, little troll that needs to crawl back into whatever dark, dank hole he calls a lair...unlike the trollishly creepy shadow9d9". But when the message is accurate, all you have to fall back on is attacks.
You declare that repeating yourself in 15 different ways is "intelligently, constructively and civil"self declared-which means a lot) when your first post said "No comment other than I personally enjoyed Syberia and the sequel." Well, if you declare yourself such, then it is settled!
You never let up when someone has another opinion. You repeat yourself in 1001 different ways, each in an attempt for the other person to give up or for you to get the last word, so you could delude yourself into thinking you are always right.
I'll let you go back to arguing for another 15 pages how only YOUR interpretation and definition of a sequel is right... Because that certainly isn't "trolling."
Cheers!
Oh goody, the troll is back with more unmitigated nonsense and empty personal insults.
Typical...
It did the same thing in a previous thread about the yet released Fallout 3 where it didn't like the fact I contested its comically self-important declaration that the game would absolutely, positively be nothing more than a mindless action title.
It doesn't like being challenged and it becomes very nasty when that happens.
Cheers, Terry
|
| 7 JUL 2008 at 8:30pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By TheTraveler (7 JUL 2008 8:09pm)
Wow! This thread is becoming really interesting at last! 8-)
/me gets out the popcorn, and settles herself more comfortably in her old typist's chair......
This is better than Wimbledon, I'd say!
Come on, Terry! Here's a good opportunity to get rid of those frustrations while 'Ladyfriend' is away........
Enjoy the popcorn Traveler and thank you for your patronage.
We here at Troll Alert International have a full venue of entertaining forum comments and humorous asides ready for your viewing pleasure.
So stay tuned and don't forget, we have a variety of attractive "I Hate Trolls" t-shirts for sale in the lobby. Your donation is tax deductible and all proceeds go to this worthy cause.
Cheers, Terry
|
| 7 JUL 2008 at 8:33pm |
| Deleted User | Ooh! Terry, I love it when you get all beefed-up! I must trot off to go and see the "sequel" (or shall I say, the 'sequil' [smiley=laughing.gif]) thread. I stopped reading it when it became boring. Obviously I've missed out on some action there! From what your'e saying, I wonder if your opponent ever played any of the Fallout games?
|
| 7 JUL 2008 at 9:03pm |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By TheTraveler (7 JUL 2008 8:32pm)
From what your'e saying, I wonder if your opponent ever played any of the Fallout games?
Oh, come, madam! Surely you must know by now that one needn't actually play a game to form a complete opinion of it! [smiley=laughing.gif]
You can't kill someone in a studio.
|
