Originally Posted By Caroline (31 MAY 2008 2:21am)


Part of my fondness for Syberia was undoubtedly all the fanfiction adventures I was involved in writing that took place inside that game.  Poor Kate, at one time I bopped her on the head, stole the toy mammoth, put on her jacket and hijacked the train....  oh happy days.  

 

Originally Posted By alkis21 (31 MAY 2008 1:16pm)

As far as the charges of liking the story of the Syberias are concerned, I'm guilty as charged. Just like Amerzone, Sokal dared to write something different than what we are used to and create a convincing game world.

However, I bought them as adventure games, not movies, and at that they failed horribly as far as I'm concerned. A "Click here to continue" button could have easily replaced all the so-called puzzles without taking anything from the games' difficulty, and the dialog system was ridiculous.

Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (31 MAY 2008 3:51pm)
Syberia only failed in the puzzle department if you personally demand a relatively high degree of difficulty Alkis - and since the developer purposefully kept the puzzles easy to make the game more accessible / appealing to a wider audience, he was IMO totally successful in accomplishing that stated goal.

Originally Posted By alkis21 (31 MAY 2008 4:11pm)
 

Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (31 MAY 2008 3:51pm)
 
Syberia only failed in the puzzle department if you personally demand a relatively high degree of difficulty Alkis - and since the developer purposefully kept the puzzles easy to make the game more accessible / appealing to a wider audience, he was IMO totally successful in accomplishing that stated goal.  

Yes obviously, I don't claim to represent the average gamer. I only judge a game based on what I like playing. Isn't that what everyone does? As far as I am concerned, an adventure game that requires no thinking at all is not an adventure game; it's a glorified slideshow.

But I stand by what I said that the dialog system was ridiculous. That notepad with a few words scribbled on it that did not change depending on the characters you were talking to was the worst dialog interaction I've seen since Maniac Mansion (which had no dialogs).

The purpose of the Syberias was to make money, so obviously they were successful. In that context, a porn movie can be successful but I don't consider it to be quality.  

Originally Posted By alkis21 (31 MAY 2008 4:11pm)


.....The purpose of the Syberias was to make money, so obviously they were successful. In that context, a porn movie can be successful but I don't consider it to be quality.......

What game developer in it for the money is going to go down the AG route?

Syberias as a gamer because I believe they had the opportunity to create something great with that story and they just didn't bother doing it.

Originally Posted By Randy-JA (1 JUN 2008 6:32am)
Gabriel Knight, April Ryan, Kate Walker, Manny - all memorable characters that make a good game even better.  King Graham, Guy Threepwood, etc. - one-dimensional characters who happen to be in good games.

Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (31 MAY 2008 4:40pm)
That aside, be honest. Syberia did include numerous puzzles that required a little thought and all of them involved some interaction with characters and/or the environment. Simple yes but legitimate puzzles neverthless that actually spawned a number of detailed walkthroughs.

Now I know it would be kind of embarrassing for a veteran AG fan worth his or her salt to refer to those guides but evidently there are quite a few players that needed them. I've offered hints and provided links to many of them on a couple of other more general game forums and some were actually pretty smart people. They just lacked any experience with AGs and/or didn't have a knack for certain types of puzzles

Originally Posted By alkis21 (1 JUN 2008 12:03am)

......... I like discussing adventure games and offer my honest opinion on them, and I'm not ready to give that up. And if that hurts my sales, so be it. I just don't think it's fair that everyone can offer their opinion but me because I'm making games. This may not be a satisfactory enough explanation for you, but it's the only one I have.

....I love solving a puzzle only after several hours of thinking and notes taking and I feel like that's been taken away from me in favor of the majority who prefer prefer easy games and end up using a walkthrough most of the way..........

What game developer in it for the money is going to go down the AG route?

I do believe there is still a market for old style adventure games and that they don't need to degenerate the genre to make money. Saying that adventure games need to have extremely easy puzzles for more people to be able to play them is like saying that all movies should adopt plots similar to "

umb and Dumber" for everyone to understand them (here I go again with the ignorant comparisons).

Originally Posted By Aya (1 JUN 2008 12:55pm)
 

Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (31 MAY 2008 4:40pm)
 
That aside, be honest. Syberia did include numerous puzzles that required a little thought and all of them involved some interaction with characters and/or the environment. Simple yes but legitimate puzzles neverthless that actually spawned a number of detailed walkthroughs.

Now I know it would be kind of embarrassing for a veteran AG fan worth his or her salt to refer to those guides but evidently there are quite a few players that needed them. I've offered hints and provided links to many of them on a couple of other more general game forums and some were actually pretty smart people. They just lacked any experience with AGs and/or didn't have a knack for certain types of puzzles  

btw, nowadays the only thing that is missing is to see walkthroughs for movies... the fact that there were walkthroughs made doesn't mean that there were puzzles... opening a closed door in not a puzzle... syberia had 1 puzzle, mixing the drink... that was it for the whole game  

Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (1 JUN 2008 10:25pm)
The whole first act of Syberia in Valadilene was in effect a puzzle that involved discovering Hans was still alive, obsessed with mammoths, had built all these wondrous things, and that Kate was required to activate Oscar and the train in order for her to find him. So too was the second chapter in Barrockstadt with the objectives of getting the barge to move and the gates to open. Komkolzgrad was also one seamless puzzle that had to be solved for Kate to get to Aralbad and find Helena. The drink mixing sequence was simply one of the few isolated, close-up, traditional-style puzzles in the game. But it was also integrated nicely within the story.

Cheers, Terry

Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (2 JUN 2008 3:52pm)

Some here disliked the fact that it wasn't designed specifically for them. That's understandable but it doesn't justify calling the game crappy any more than it does for other things aimed at a general audience. Complexity is not a condition of quality. Neither is simplicity. Those traits only determine personal appeal.

Cheers, Terry

Originally Posted By avatar_58 (2 JUN 2008 4:54pm)
 

Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (2 JUN 2008 3:52pm)
 
Some here disliked the fact that it wasn't designed specifically for them. That's understandable but it doesn't justify calling the game crappy any more than it does for other things aimed at a general audience. Complexity is not a condition of quality. Neither is simplicity. Those traits only determine personal appeal.

Cheers, Terry

Well to some it was crap, others it was amazing. Thats how she goes. Nothing wrong with either opinion. Also this topic is hotter than I realized, seems people are rather vocal over this game. (Always a good thing, for critics or fans)  

Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (2 JUN 2008 3:52pm)
.

Some here disliked the fact that it wasn't designed specifically for them. That's understandable but it doesn't justify calling the game crappy any more than it does for other things aimed at a general audience. Complexity is not a condition of quality. Neither is simplicity. Those traits only determine personal appeal.

Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (2 JUN 2008 3:52pm)
.

The player had to search for and gather information from various sources, collect items, manipulate things, and follow the correct sequence of actions in order to proceed. Each chapter involved a set of problems and solutions that, while very obvious to experienced PC AG players, was not so easy for others. To them, the whole game was a puzzle, a source of bafflement that evidently required many to seek assistance from hints or walkthroughs.

Like I said Aya, my only complaint about Syberia was the degree of difficulty relative to my own abilities as a seasoned AG fan. Since it was created with a much wider auduence in mind, Sokal and company made it easy on purpose. As a result, many people outside our community were able to enjoy the game and it sold quite well.

Some here disliked the fact that it wasn't designed specifically for them. That's understandable but it doesn't justify calling the game crappy any more than it does for other things aimed at a general audience. Complexity is not a condition of quality. Neither is simplicity. Those traits only determine personal appeal.

Cheers, Terry