| 28 MAY 2008 at 6:18pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
No comment other than I personally enjoyed Syberia and the sequel. Played together, they are bascially one seamless game that IMO is better than average overall and far superior to most in terms of artistry. Sorry you disliked it so much.
Cheers, Terry
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| 28 MAY 2008 at 7:21pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | hey, avatar, i wonder if now you'll go on your way to become a successful developer after this post! (for those who don't know or remember, the very first post made by agustin, of nucleosys fame, on this forum was about syberia being overrated! that was quite some time before nucleosys was born, when agustin was still known as rael! ah, gotta love a bit of history!)
anyway, i do agree that syberia is (highly) overrated... i did enjoy the game, but it was just a nice game, nothing like what it's been presented as - and certainly not even close to being a classic... the worst part though was that sokal picked up from the success to serve us one of the greatest turkeys in the history of the genre (paradise), probably thinking that just because his name is featured it would make ppl drool no matter what it is... those are the downsides of overnight success i guess........ :-/
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 28 MAY 2008 at 7:22pm |
MrLipidPrivate Detective
Posts : 666
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | You are not alone, avatar_58. I'll leave it at that.
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| 28 MAY 2008 at 8:05pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Aya (28 MAY 2008 7:21pm)
hey, avatar, i wonder if now you'll go on your way to become a successful developer after this post! (for those who don't know or remember, the very first post made by agustin, of nucleosys fame, on this forum was about syberia being overrated! that was quite some time before nucleosys was born, when agustin was still known as rael! ah, gotta love a bit of history!)
I wish. I'd love to design an adventure game, but without any ability to do the art or the programming....I'm just one of those "I don't agree with this" soapbox folks. :-[ I once thought of putting together a proof of concept game using AGS and 3DStudio max, and I might still do it one day. Until then all I can do is complain about everyone else's work!
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| 28 MAY 2008 at 9:33pm |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5537
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | I enjoyed Syberia, and I found it to be beautiful and even moving at times with wonderful art. It is, however, very weak in gameplay and was rather disappointing to me as a game even while paradoxically I found it had a certain charm in art design and story. And as for Syberia 2, it failed to even have the charm the first game had for me.
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| 29 MAY 2008 at 12:57am |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Aya (28 MAY 2008 7:21pm)
i did enjoy the game, but it was just a nice game, nothing like what it's been presented as - and certainly not even close to being a classic...
I was rather fond of the game as well - but as to it being a classic... I'd wager that you're perception would be different if it were your first, or reasonably near first adventure game. It had a nice entry level type style to it. For those of us that have played a few already - it was a nice change of pace.
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| 29 MAY 2008 at 2:04pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | It is obvious that Avatar didn't pick up on some details of the storyline so I shall elucidate. Kate wasn't yet married to Dan but their wedding was getting closer. Olivia was Kates 'best friend' when she bedded Dan and frankly they deserve each other. The train kept stopping because Kate was following leads tracking down Hans and didn't it need to be re-wound again each time?
Kate wasn't chasing mammoths, Hans was. Kate was chasing Hans.
Right. Got that straight. I really liked Syberia. I enjoy exploration and the scenery was terrific in this game. Sure the puzzles were pretty basic, the pace of Kate's walking was fairly slow but overall the atmosphere in the game was superb. Never was there any question about me getting bored or not finishing this game. Unfortunately Mr Sokal is not a writer - he is an artist and this is where his weakness lies - he writes his own stories. Bad idea. [smiley=shaking_head.gif]
Syberia certainly set a high standard with the visual beauty of the environments. I have read comments from so many people who were moved to tears by the story that despite my own misgivings I have to accept that it certainly hit the spot for a significant number of people. Therefore I don't think it can be rubbished. If Mr Sokal made money out of it, good for him. It certainly brought me pleasure.
I think it's a bit like people rubbishing Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code. Maybe not the best example of its genre but certainly satisfying a popular taste. As for symbolism it is my experience that people enjoy 'finding' stuff like that in stories that have resonated with them. I doubt if Mr Sokal wrote it with hidden meanings in mind.
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| 29 MAY 2008 at 3:58pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Caroline (29 MAY 2008 2:04pm)
It is obvious that Avatar didn't pick up on some details of the storyline so I shall elucidate. Kate wasn't yet married to Dan but their wedding was getting closer. Olivia was Kates 'best friend' when she bedded Dan and frankly they deserve each other. The train kept stopping because Kate was following leads tracking down Hans and didn't it need to be re-wound again each time?
Kate wasn't chasing mammoths, Hans was. Kate was chasing Hans.
I was grossly oversimplifying it yes, but I did get the story. I just wasn't hooked into it. When you strip the basics of the story you aren't left with much. Kate's reasoning behind half of her decisions (such as chasing after Hans) didn't even make sense. It's like I was only doing it to finish the game, rather than for a resolution to a story. Almost like a "find the red keycard' only for an adventure game. It didn't help that the gameplay consisted of mostly the same thing either.
Right. Got that straight. I really liked Syberia. I enjoy exploration and the scenery was terrific in this game. Sure the puzzles were pretty basic, the pace of Kate's walking was fairly slow but overall the atmosphere in the game was superb. Never was there any question about me getting bored or not finishing this game. Unfortunately Mr Sokal is not a writer - he is an artist and this is where his weakness lies - he writes his own stories. Bad idea. [smiley=shaking_head.gif]
Syberia certainly set a high standard with the visual beauty of the environments. I have read comments from so many people who were moved to tears by the story that despite my own misgivings I have to accept that it certainly hit the spot for a significant number of people. Therefore I don't think it can be rubbished. If Mr Sokal made money out of it, good for him. It certainly brought me pleasure.
I think it's a bit like people rubbishing Dan Brown's Da Vinci Code. Maybe not the best example of its genre but certainly satisfying a popular taste. As for symbolism it is my experience that people enjoy 'finding' stuff like that in stories that have resonated with them. I doubt if Mr Sokal wrote it with hidden meanings in mind.
Unfortunately I cannot be wowed by just pretty graphics. I need the game to give me a reason to finish it, either with interesting puzzles or an itriguing plot. Syberia had neither of those things, and instead relied on scenery. Which frankly, at least to me, was very uninteresting. I know what he was going for with the whole Clockwork world type of thing, but without filling those screens with interesting characters and events.....I just didn't get anything out of them.
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| 29 MAY 2008 at 4:26pm |
JelenaPrivate Detective
Posts : 587
Joined: 30 SEP 2007
Status : Offline | Each to his own of course.
I loved the Syberia games mostly for the atmosphere and the gripping, original story.
Temporary guest in your life.
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| 29 MAY 2008 at 4:28pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Jelena (29 MAY 2008 4:25pm)
Each to his own of course.
Of course. I've had many games I enjoy called garbage before, so I get it. I'm just voicing my frustrations over my dislike of Sokal's games and the attention he gets.
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| 29 MAY 2008 at 8:00pm |
loobilooPrivate Detective
Posts : 598
Joined: 3 APR 2008
Location: UK
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Aya (28 MAY 2008 7:21pm)
anyway, i do agree that syberia is (highly) overrated... i did enjoy the game, but it was just a nice game, nothing like what it's been presented as - and certainly not even close to being a classic... the worst part though was that sokal picked up from the success to serve us one of the greatest turkeys in the history of the genre (paradise), probably thinking that just because his name is featured it would make ppl drool no matter what it is... those are the downsides of overnight success i guess........ :-/
Unfortunately for all the people who think this game is highly overrated for whatever reason, it will, I think, stand up amongst classics in the future. It's a very popular game & I've been round the block enough times to know that popular doesn't necessarily = quality. IMO in this case it does.! The story is compelling & the artistry is superb - I'm not sure what anyone means by lack of puzzles???
The trouble is that when I venture over here on occasion everyone seems to want the 'good old days'.
Things move on folks!
As for Paradise, I loved that also & thought the story & artistry were just as superb but perhaps not so appealing to the masses. The only 'turkeylike' aspect I found was that it was released before all the glitches & bugs were ironed out.
Everyone likes different things in a game & as much as I respect peoples opinions on what they don't like personally & why, I don't think there's any need to disregard & nitpick one just because it wasn't your scene -as is happening here!
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| 29 MAY 2008 at 9:19pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
The degree of diffculty was purposefully kept low in Syberia to make it more appealing to the masses. In every other way, it IMO was a superb piece of interactive fiction. But hey, this is after all a niche-genre-specific web forum populated almost entirely by hard-core PC AG fans - the majority of whom do demand a stiffer challenge than what the game provided.
In a larger sense, Syberia is one of the most refined titles ever produced in any genre for any system. It was simply too easy for true hard-core PC adventure gamers. Otherwise, I completely disagree with most all the negative opinions expressed above. Let me elaborate...
1. Sokal's writing was not only passable, it was far better than many, many other highly rated AGs and several whole leagues above the average quality of writing for games in general.
2. As a work of art, it has few peers.
3. For music and voice acting, it is near the top in the genre.
4. For quality of coding and interface design, it is nearly flawless.
5. For packaging, it is one of the most tasteful and elegant games ever produced period.
6. In terms of sales, it beat the pants off of 99% of all other recent PC AGs.
7. For accessibility to the world-at-large, it is much better than the vast majority of non-casual AG titles aimed at adults.
Again, the ONLY personal complaint I had about Syberia was the relatively easy degree of difficulty - which is completely understandable if not excusable given the stated intent of the developer and publisher to reach a wider audience.
On a minor note to Caroline - Kate runs pretty darn fast if you just double click where you want her to go. So any complaint about her walking slow really is unjustified.
Cheers, Terry
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| 30 MAY 2008 at 11:02am |
MaumPrivate Detective
Posts : 593
Joined: 2 JUN 2007
Location: UK
Status : Offline | I don't get why this game got so popular.
I found the atmosphere quite bleak, and the plot surreal (not to mention slow)- and not in a good way. A girl and a robot chasing a guy chasing mammoths :-?
I found myself playing it just to get to the end, ironically my game bugged anyway and I never got to leave Russia... or to meet Hans. Boo hoo. Not.
Being quite new to AG forums, I never even realised just how popular the game was until I found you guys.
Currently playing: Dragon Age Origins, Dishonored, The Witcher, Fallout 3, Deponia
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| 30 MAY 2008 at 1:49pm |
JKingSchattenjger
Posts : 2349
Joined: 4 MAY 2008
Location: 0
Status : Offline | I can understand Syberia's popularity, I think. For one thing, it is very impressive as a work of art, but beyond that the puzzles are quite good, too. I was not witness first-hand to any hype surrounding it, but I'd not be surprised to hear it convinced many people to play more adventure games. In the end, that's not something we should criticise too much, if you ask me.
You can't kill someone in a studio.
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| 30 MAY 2008 at 1:52pm |
MaumPrivate Detective
Posts : 593
Joined: 2 JUN 2007
Location: UK
Status : Offline | I'm not criticising per se, I am just genuinely puzzled the story would actually have mass appeal.
Currently playing: Dragon Age Origins, Dishonored, The Witcher, Fallout 3, Deponia
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| 30 MAY 2008 at 4:17pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By maum (30 MAY 2008 1:51pm)
I'm not criticising per se, I am just genuinely puzzled the story would actually have mass appeal.
Not mass appeal. Just a wider (mostly well-educated older male and female) audience than many games in general that feature horror, sci-fi, occult, and really wild D& type fantasy themes.
Kate is a real human being with no special powers. She has a normal real-world job, an annoying cell phone, a pushy boss, an overbearing mother, a gossipy girlfriend, and an arrogant fiance who also turns out to be a philanderer. She's a contemporary lady who is struggling to balance career and romance. What happens along her journey is a personal declaration of independence sparked by the strange adventure that grows from what appears at first to be a pretty commonplace task.
Why wouldn't that appeal to a number of normal people looking for a relatively easy game in a world-class package?
Cheers, Terry
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| 30 MAY 2008 at 4:49pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (30 MAY 2008 4:17pm)
.
Not mass appeal. Just a wider (mostly well-educated older male and female) audience than many games in general that feature horror, sci-fi, occult, and really wild D& type fantasy themes.
You aren't going to go that route are you? I fail to see what makes Syberia so profound that you need to be a univerity professor to understand. It was a painting with mild adventure overtones, nothing more. I'd dare say you need to be a fan of his artwork or you'd fall asleep.
Maybe it's just me, but I demand more from my adventure games than just a pretty face. Wheres the interesting story, the memorable characters or the challenging puzzles? Why can't I examine the environment? Syberia failed to prove to me why it was worth the hype it recieved.
I'd argue Syberia is mostly enjoyed by folks who aren't fans of the genre, and maybe started playing adventures late into their lives rather than back in the dos days.
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| 30 MAY 2008 at 4:50pm |
MaumPrivate Detective
Posts : 593
Joined: 2 JUN 2007
Location: UK
Status : Offline | Terry I have to say it sounds all so exciting when you describe it like that!
Which game are you talking about?
Currently playing: Dragon Age Origins, Dishonored, The Witcher, Fallout 3, Deponia
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| 30 MAY 2008 at 4:53pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By maum (30 MAY 2008 4:50pm)
I have to say it sounds all so exciting when you describe it like that!
I could describe Larry Laffer as an eccentric older gentleman struggling against all odds for the romance of his perfect lady. Many challenges await this poor soul as he simply tries to find love with every polyester fibre of his being. Though he often looks in several wrong places, he is anything but a lounge lizard.
Doesn't mean it reflects the game's quality or hell...even plot.
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| 30 MAY 2008 at 4:57pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By avatar_58 (30 MAY 2008 4:49pm)
Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (30 MAY 2008 4:17pm)
Not mass appeal. Just a wider (mostly well-educated older male and female) audience than many games in general that feature horror, sci-fi, occult, and really wild D& type fantasy themes.
You aren't going to go that route are you? I fail to see what makes Syberia so profound that you need to be a univerity professor to understand. It was a painting with mild adventure overtones, nothing more. I'd dare say you need to be a fan of his artwork or you'd fall asleep.
Maybe it's just me, but I demand more from my adventure games than just a pretty face. Wheres the interesting story, the memorable characters or the challenging puzzles? Why can't I examine the environment? Syberia failed to prove to me why it was worth the hype it recieved.
I'd argue Syberia is mostly enjoyed by folks who aren't fans of the genre, and maybe started playing adventures late into their lives rather than back in the dos days.
Excuse me, but please point out where I used the word "profound" in any of my comments about Syberia or even implied anything close to it.
As for your personal reaction to the story, characters, settings, and puzzles - in judging how Syberia appealed to a larger audience, many people truly enjoyed those apsects of the game as well as the undeniably masterful artistic execution.
It is simply that your tastes differ from theirs, which is of no real consequence to anyone other than yourself since the game sold quite well and received very positive reviews.
Cheers, Terry
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| 30 MAY 2008 at 4:59pm |
avatar_58Private Detective
Posts : 403
Joined: 27 MAY 2008
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (30 MAY 2008 4:56pm)
It is simply that your tastes differ from theirs, which is of no real cosequence since the game sold quite well and received very positive reviews.
Cheers, Terry
Of course, but might I remind you many terrible games have sold in spades. Sales are not an accurate judge of quality, or else games like Grim Fandango wouldn't have done as badly as they did.
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| 30 MAY 2008 at 5:03pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By avatar_58 (30 MAY 2008 4:59pm)
Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (30 MAY 2008 4:56pm)
It is simply that your tastes differ from theirs, which is of no real cosequence since the game sold quite well and received very positive reviews.
Cheers, Terry
Of course, but might I remind you many terrible games have sold in spades. Sales are not an accurate judge of quality, or else games like Grim Fandango wouldn't have done as badly as they did.
Not in this case.
Syberia was a highly polished, extremely well executed game that many avid and experienced AG fans like myself enjoyed. It was the complete opposite of a "terrible" game. It just didn't appeal to you personally.
Cheers, Terry
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| 30 MAY 2008 at 11:45pm |
loobilooPrivate Detective
Posts : 598
Joined: 3 APR 2008
Location: UK
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By avatar_58 (30 MAY 2008 4:59pm)
Of course, but might I remind you many terrible games have sold in spades. Sales are not an accurate judge of quality, or else games like Grim Fandango wouldn't have done as badly as they did.
Please give some examples of the 'terrible games that have sold in spades'. Your statement means nothing otherwise. As for Grim Fandango, I played the game & liked it but would have liked it a lot better if it hadn't been so bizarre, illogical & therefore difficult in a lot of places. I couldn't have completed it without a walkthrough - maybe that's why it did badly. Because of that it is not in my top list of favourite games.
I play games for fun & a little escapism. I don't want a game to be mind bogglingly difficult which IMO doesn't make it a better game. Perhaps what it comes down to, is differing tastes in subject matter.
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| 30 MAY 2008 at 11:56pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By avatar_58 (30 MAY 2008 4:49pm)
Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (30 MAY 2008 4:17pm)
.
Not mass appeal. Just a wider (mostly well-educated older male and female) audience than many games in general that feature horror, sci-fi, occult, and really wild D& type fantasy themes.
You aren't going to go that route are you? I fail to see what makes Syberia so profound that you need to be a univerity professor to understand. It was a painting with mild adventure overtones, nothing more. I'd dare say you need to be a fan of his artwork or you'd fall asleep.
Maybe it's just me, but I demand more from my adventure games than just a pretty face. Wheres the interesting story, the memorable characters or the challenging puzzles? Why can't I examine the environment? Syberia failed to prove to me why it was worth the hype it recieved.
I'd argue Syberia is mostly enjoyed by folks who aren't fans of the genre, and maybe started playing adventures late into their lives rather than back in the dos days.
I enjoyed it - and I started in 1974, on an IBM 360/158 (well before DOS)
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