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| 16 FEB 2003 at 8:56pm |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | First of all, this a great thing you are doing nellspot. You could also download my magazine The Inventory from the front page of JA and check out the Help to Developers section where I wrte some guidelines but I can write some things here too.
1) Story
Put a lot of focus on the story. The greatest adventures in the history of adventure games had a captivating and original story (Gabriel Knight, TLJ, Syberia etc). Try also to make a linear story because the best stories have always been linear.
The characters should be many and memorable. Make your games full of life! Dialogues are also very important and they should build up the story. And please don't make any stories about Egypt, Atlantis or the templars. We've had enough of them.
Try to find new concepts and themes that have not been touched by adventures before like terrorism, ancient Rome, drugs, a court room...etc
2) Puzzles
Make them in order to progress the story and not to prevent it. Illogical puzzles drive people mad and some leave the game unfinished with a feeling of irritation
3) Gameplay
I'll list some things that are considered annoying:
- Pixel hunting
- Necessity for a walkthrough
- No option to bypass dialogues
- Unorganized inventories with too many items inside
- Keyboard controlled adventures
These should be avoided at all costs!
Try to make all necessary objects clearly identified on screen. Make puzzles logical (as said before), make dialogues by-pass-a-ble and don't turn your character into a garbage gatherer. The inventory should hold only a few necessary items that are going to disappear once your character does not need them anymore.
Also very important... point and click all the way. The most easy and user friendly interface for adventure games. Look the Longest Journey for hints, definitely the best interface ever used in an adventure game. Especially the ability to change the cursor into the objects from your inventory and the fact that they were flashing when passed on top of a hot spot was the biggest interface innovation in the history of adventures.
And last but not least....always make clear to the player what he/she has to do next. This is very important for keeping the player's interest high.
4) Graphics:
Do them as you like, but do them good... no blocky-robotic characters please. And don't forget to use a lot of cutscenes. They are a sense of reward for every adventurer and they give a cinematic feeling to your games.
You should also try to use a lot of close-ups and camera-swaps during dialogues. And a personal preference here...: please make many 3rd person adventures
That's it for now. If I'll think of something else I'll come back to post it. Thanks again for your interest in the players.
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 16 FEB 2003 at 9:38pm |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | You might also want to read this. It is a guideline for developers written by Bill Tiller (The Dig, Curse of Monkey Island etc). I think every developer should read it as it holds some very useful tips!!!
http://www.adventuredevelopers.com/articles.php?articleid=58
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 16 FEB 2003 at 10:39pm |
SunspiralSpace Cadet
Posts : 122
Joined: 9 NOV 2002
Status : Online | You can't please every fan of the genre. To try would only hinder your efforts.
Key elements? I would focus on story of course, but would try my best to make it suspenseful. Scarey games can be the most fun. This is done more by what the player doesn't see then what he does (Sound, Music). Flow of the game is quite important. As it is with any dialogue based effort.
What I would do differently is not limit my game to only mouse controls and a linear plotline. A game made around keyboard controls can be just as good as one made with mouse controls in mind. However, mouse controls might be nicer for alot of open areas. Depends on the game design. Linear or not linear is just a matter of knowing your own limitations. If it shortens the game then it should be avoided at all costs but if you can find a "non-intrusive" way to make multiple endings then run with it.
No genre should all be made the same. Just like cut-scenes shouldn't be abused (used so many times) to the point they go from a reward to an intrusion. Would get hella boring. Be like eating at McDonald's each time you wanted to go grab a bite. After a while I'd rather go without food.
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| 16 FEB 2003 at 11:08pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Play Myst and Riven and then make the game just like them!
(SirDave immediately raises shields to full power)
Nellspot- just ignore me: was just ribbing Dimi (and Rael if he reads it)!
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 16 FEB 2003 at 11:14pm |
| Deleted User | Just make a good game, follow Dimi's examples but don't be afraid to experiment. Make it something we haven't seen before, and here's some info from an animation artist -
Don't be put off from hiring a professional writer. Don't write the story OR dialogue yourselves, it's best to get someone else who does it as a full time job. Ask Peter Molneaux (Black and White creator), a firm believer in that if you need something done properly, you've got to go to the right sources.
Be careful though - get a writer who understands the context of game development. I work with writers who can't visualise a lot of the time, and trying to convey their ideas often when they don't have a sense of space and time is sometimes beyond frustrating.
If you ARE going to do cut scenes, do them WELL. You know how to make game's, obviously, but if you're going into this to make something "cinematic" (or even if you're not) hire yourselves someone who understands visual direction.
It's a deceptively difficult thing to get right - believe me, it's my profession. I can't think of one recent game that has a reasonable cinematic, except maybe the intro to Return To Castle Wolfenstein. Even Syberia suffered from some dodgy direction.
Same goes for voice direction. Too many games fall flat on this - even good ones. Post Mortem had some really flat voice acting - the best example I can think of is Grim Fandango. Even TLJ suffered occasionally, although that was due to overlong dialogues more than the actors.
The upshot of all this is that if you follow this advice, you'll make a more believable game with a better visual "flow" than around 99% of the stuff out there at the moment. And for an adventure game, more than any other, this is really, really important.
You're games developers, not filmmakers, and too often I've seen great concepts fall flat on their asses simply because the game director fancied himself as a film director. Just take Unreal 2, for example... brill shooter, crap story and direction.
I hope you take all the advice on these threads - if you do, you got one purchaser here already!
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| 16 FEB 2003 at 11:16pm |
| Deleted User | Oh yeah -
SirDave - perhaps they should play Riven, ditch the entire game design and nick the pure design concepts? Its saving grace...
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| 16 FEB 2003 at 11:59pm |
LancelotIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 56
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Online |
Very huge interactivity!
And as much non-linearity and dinamic environment as possible.
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| 17 FEB 2003 at 1:14am |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SirDave (16 FEB 2003 11:08pm)
Play Myst and Riven and then make the game just like them!
And make your game just another uninspired clone
Very huge interactivity!
And as much non-linearity and dinamic environment as possible.
Ditto!
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| 17 FEB 2003 at 8:16am |
| Deleted User | Rael, SirDave was being sarcastic .
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| 17 FEB 2003 at 11:51am |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By monkeybone (17 FEB 2003 8:16am)
Rael, SirDave was being sarcastic .
I wasn't
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| 17 FEB 2003 at 12:52pm |
| Deleted User |
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| 17 FEB 2003 at 2:31pm |
Friday the 14thSchattenjger
Posts : 2908
Joined: 5 NOV 2002
Status : Online | I agree with all post here (except SirDave's) especially Dimi's (except some parts).
And last but not least....always make clear to the player what he/she has to do next. This is very important for keeping the player's interest high.
Yes! yes!, I just hate it when I'm on my own in a game and have to serch for puzzles. Be sure to build the game upon on a interesting conflict with smaller under-conflicts that way you always understand the problems you are to solve.
- Keyboard controlled adventures I don't understand that point at all, I don't think it is annoying at all, I think it's great, take Normality for example, It's in full 3D and uses the keyboard in a great way.
please don't make any stories about Egypt, Atlantis or the templars. We've had enough of them.
I think they can be well made, it's just that it hasn't been done yet. All we've seen so far is horror examples that scared us away from the themes (except templars). If you have an interesting plot that involves Egypt, Atlantis or the templars I believe the game'll turn out to be great.
Be very sure to make the game personal, like dimi said: Make the characters full of life, choose third perspective, it's a lot more personal, if you can see the main charcter and "make friends" with him/her/it, you wount be able to go away from the computer until your finished, and then you'll cry and wait for a sequel.
About linear/non-linear:
So far there has been no compleatly non-linear adventure games, you might be able to choose paths, but the paths has already been set. The only way as I see it to make a compleatly non-linear adventure is by making 'artificial natural laws'. that way you can use paths not set by the developers. It requires way too much work though .
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| 17 FEB 2003 at 3:36pm |
| Deleted User | nellspot - enter the conflicts... as John Goodman once said "You're entering a world of pain, son..."
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| 17 FEB 2003 at 4:11pm |
SnowmanSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 309
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | No mazes!!!!
I mean where in real life would you find one?...Nowhere. Yes, I know that many adventure games aren't based on "real life", but still, mazes usually just don't add anything to the game. In fact, most game developers seem to just use it as a way to extend the game with a long annoying puzzle! In most cases, I find that mazes just slow the game down and really kill the interest level.
Never do anything half-assed, always use your WHOLE ass!!
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| 17 FEB 2003 at 5:40pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | I think there is a consensus on: no major mazes, no timing, no dying, allow reasonable number of save spots, use point & click (avoid keyboard controls) and no illogical puzzles.
Many of the other suggestions having to do with 1st person vs 3rd person, linear vs. non-linear, deep involved story vs. simpler plot, and fully developed characters vs. not so developed tend to reflect individual biases and whatever choice is made will not necessarily make or break the game.
Many here seem to want to have something along the lines of Syberia; others would go for a darn-good Riven-type game. It probably won't matter which as long as it's done with care.
But, just in case the many clues given weren't obvious (my gawd- I thought I was communicating with seasoned puzzle-solvers), my statement above:
"Play Myst and Riven and then make the game just like them!"
was a joke!
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 17 FEB 2003 at 10:47pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Friday the 14:th (17 FEB 2003 2:30pm)
Yes! yes!, I just hate it when I'm on my own in a game and have to serch for puzzles. Be sure to build the game upon on a interesting conflict with smaller under-conflicts that way you always understand the problems you are to solve.
Very well said! I think TLJ is a great example of an adventure story made right. Make clear, long-time goals that the player knows will be reached at some point, and then stuff smaller sub-quests in on the way there. Ideally, a sub-quest should be finished before its "parent quest", as this is easier to handle for the player mentally. Just to mess with your heads, here's a grammar for what I mean by this:
GAME -> QUESTS
QUESTS -> (QUEST) or (QUEST followed by QUESTS)
QUEST -> (BEGINNING followed by END) or (BEGINNING followed by QUEST followed by END)
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| 18 FEB 2003 at 11:50pm |
dombrewerGuild Master
Posts : 3103
Joined: 19 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | Just wanted to reiterate something monkeybone said (my astute countryman on the ball as always). It relates to my line of work so it's a particular bugbear of mine....
Hire professional actors through a voice over agency to do your voices - of course the cost will be greater, but nothing gets on my nerves more than shoddy voice acting in a game.
Except shoddy script writing, but that's another matter.
[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/detective.gif[/img][b]Playing:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/blahblah.gif[/img][b]Reading:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/whistle.gif[/img][b]Listening:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/indie.gif[/img][b]Watching:[/b]
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