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| 24 OCT 2002 at 2:47pm | |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger Posts : 1784 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Ok guys let's see now. It is four people that didn't like Syberia. Rael, Mr Lipid, Red and Michael. Red did not say exactly why he didn't like Syberia but he said that comparing it to TLJ is a shame. I also think that TLJ is better but if this means that any game that comes out and is worse than TLJ is not a great game then you are not going to see many great games in the future. ****Simply put, I thought Syberia was boring. The story is unique. However, unique doesn't equal entertaining. I didn't find the story to be interesting..... Puzzles (which I didn't mind - easy puzzles are fine with me).....**** posted by Michael Now Michael didn't mind the puzzles and thought they were quite ok but although he finded the story unique, it wasn't interesting. (I though the word unique usually points to interesting also but anyway...) Let's go to Rael's opinions ****Maybe Syberia has an interesting story but I want a CHALLENGE also. The puzzles seems like they're just to bother so you can't solve the game in one hour. **** ****a high percentage of the adventures coming out these days are about historical dramas or they don't even have a plot like Schizm, Rhem**** both posted by Rael OK Rael thought the story was ok but he thought the puzzles were too easy. So he has a completely different opinion with Michael about which parts he doesn't like in Syberia and at the same time he hates myst-clones kind of puzzles. Now let's go to Mr Lipid ****Games designed for players who can handle adult content but don't want to be slowed down by anything more difficult than finding a key. Why not just make click through graphic novels? Why bother with puzzles at all? **** ****MYST is a great format. And Dark Fall built upon that format by creating a rich and compelling back story that unfolds as one explores**** ****Syberia is a series of pretty postcards propped up in front of a series of hotspots.**** all posted by Mr Lipid Now Mr Lipid also thought that the puzzles were ridiculously easy but on the contrary to Rael he prefers myst-clones/brain busting kind of puzzles. And the best of all I heard, a myst-fan called Syberia a series of postcards!!!! I think you can all judge this sentence by yourselves. So from the 3 out of the 4, one of them liked the puzzles and not the story and the other 2 thought the story was ok and disliked the puzzles. But if you ask these two what kind of puzzles do they want they will answer differently (one like myst-clone puzzles the other one hates them). Conclusion....there could never be a game that all of these people really thought it was great. So as a developer you either have to make 4 different versions of syberia one for each taste so that everybody likes it, or you can make an adventure in the definition that the majority of the adventure community gives. And I am sorry my friends but the adventure community is one made by people, hence the term adventure is given by its majority. Most people liked Syberia. You didn't. If you were Benoit Sokal would you listen to you 4 or would you listen to the people that are voting right now Syberia 2 as the most awaited game for 2003? Real I don't know how many of these people that used a walkthrough have played adventures in many years and I don't think it matters. Actually I hope they didn't, because if so, it means that we get more people in the adventure genre, which is only a good thing. I'm sorry guys but what you call syberia-clone is what the majority of adventure players calls an adventure. I was introducing one of my sisters last year to adventures. I gave her TLJ to play as the first game. She loved it, and when she finished it she wanted to play more. Then she went to Atlantis 3, because she liked the graphics of it. I advised her that the puzzles were just crazy but she wanted to give it a go anyway. After one month she didn't want to play adventures anymore, she was getting constantly stuck. And I don't blame her for that. The puzzles were not to entertain you, they were made to torture you. I gave her GK2 after that and now she likes adventures again, and I can see why this happened. I also loved Zak Mckracken and all these old games, but I think the newer games (like the ones that I have in the first 4 spots of my top 10) are more realistic, more immersive, more acceptable by most people, and realistic puzzles that don't require IQ > Einsteins. There are a lot of new adventures I don't like (like the ones you mention Rael) but Syberia, although not the best game ever, is not one of them and one I will always think of as a masterpiece. And by the way Rael, I hate shooters. PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 3:34pm | |
MrLipidPrivate Detective  Posts : 666 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (24 OCT 2002 2:46pm) That's MrLipid...not Mr Lipid. ****Games designed for players who can handle adult content but don't want to be slowed down by anything more difficult than finding a key. Why not just make click through graphic novels? Why bother with puzzles at all? **** I said MYST was a great format. And it is. What began as a clever use of an authoring tool has revealed itself to be a pretty slick (and economical) way to create a first person adventure. Makes it possible for independents like Boakes and Mueller to compete with the giants like EA and Microids. Makes it possible to get a little fresh air into the genre. And what am I to do about being so silly (as a "myst-fan" as to declare Syberia nothing more than a series of postcards in front of a series of hotspots? Well, I'll do this. The difference between MYST and Syberia is that one is free to roam and explore in MYST. One is not locked into figuring out which particular hotspot the designers decided is the one that needs to be clicked on next. MYST is an open game and Syberia is not. ...Conclusion....there could never be a game that all of these people really thought it was great. Response....nope. ifferent tastes for different gamers. Unless, of course, dimidimidimi is running the world. Then we get to hear about how most gamers love Syberia and those of us who don't should either get on the train or find another genre. Is it really a good idea to tell everyone who likes tough puzzles in first person settings to get lost? Just because you don't happen to like tough puzzles in first person settings? And I am sorry my friends but the adventure community is one made by people, hence the term adventure is given by its majority. Most people liked Syberia. You didn't. And what you call myst-clone....etc., etc. I understand what it's like to fall in love with a particular game or style of game. I happen to be mad about Spirit of Speed 1937, NOIR and the 7th Guest. However, my affection for these titles does not blind me to their faults nor does it require me to attempt to convince those who do not share my views that their tastes are faulty. As I have said in many other ways, I'm thrilled whenever anyone finds anything that gives them pleasure. All I ask is that they return the favor and respect what gives me pleasure. |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 3:35pm | |
Agustín CordesGuild Master  Posts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | Myst IS NOT a good format. Its the *worst* thing that ever happened to the adventure game community. Its just a collection of puzzles in a lifeless world that has nothing to do with the (nonexistent?) story. PERIOD. And don't come with "but what about the million of gamers that liked it?" because Doom also appealed to lot of people, shooter-hater. A popular game doesn't mean that its a good game. Thats exactly whats happening with Syberia. Bravo, Lipid! You made an excellent point here: if the new oh-so-controversial adventures handles mature content then why in heavens they're engineered for kids? Just like Phanstasmagoria. Look Dimi, if you state that Phantasmagoria is above, say, Grim Fandango then you have absolutely no authority to discuss this. Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 3:41pm | |
Agustín CordesGuild MasterPosts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | Btw, Dark Fall its years light beyond Myst. And is good that its an independent game. Also, I'm aware of what MrLipid said. I love the Space Quest series with all my heart as they were some of the first games I played. I like the simple story, the silly puzzles and the classic villian Vohaul. But I know that they're not good examples of an adventure game and they've many faults. So, as much as you may like Syberia, you cannot state that its a masterpiece. Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 3:56pm | |
dimidimidimiSchattenjgerPosts : 1784 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | ****Different tastes for different gamers. Unless, of course, dimidimidimi is running the world. Then we get to hear about how most gamers love Syberia and those of us who don't should either get on the train or find another genre. Is it really a good idea to tell everyone who likes tough puzzles in first person settings to get lost?**** by mr Lipid I agree with the different tastes for different gamers. But I don't see what you or Rael or anybody else win by going into a forum and burying an adventure game you didn't like. It seems to me like you are the one who doesn't want different games for different gamers. I don't like myst-clones nor shooters. But I never went in a myst conversation saying I hate myst and I never entered a doom conversation saying I hate doom and it's a stupid game cause I wouldn't win anything from that. You are the ones who are looking for extinction of some style of adventure not me. ****Look Dimi, if you state that Phantasmagoria is above, say, Grim Fandango then you have absolutely no authority to discuss this. **** ****So, as much as you may like Syberia, you cannot state that its a masterpiece. **** posted by 'his majesty' Real If I started saying what I feel like saying to you it would be a screen full of censored words (something like damn....damn I love those stars). Anyway, you must have a big idea about yourself saying to others what can they say or if they have the authority to say something. I understand your anger and hate since you belong to the exceptions and to the left-out people. So you can go on, expressing to us how pissed off you are, I wonder if anybody is reading to you anymore. By the way, by your temper it seems like you would do an excellent shooter player! Maybe you are in the wrong genre. I am not going to reply to you anymore cause I just don't take you seriously anymore. You can go on judging and criticising everything... PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 4:04pm | |
MrLipidPrivate DetectivePosts : 666 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Rael (24 OCT 2002 3:34pm) Since that is a claim I am making, I'll see if I can defend it. When I say 'format," I am not referring to "a collection of puzzles in a lifeless world that has nothing to do with the (nonexistent?) story." That just happens to be how MYST turned out. What I am referring to is the use of MacroMedia Director to link images and puzzles to economically create a first person world. MYST and Dark Fall share the same technological underpinnings. What makes Dark Fall so wonderful is that it completely transcends those underpinnings by making us responsible for connecting all the dots it spreads before us. There is an extraordinarily deeply felt story behind Dark Fall that emerges in the notes, the voices, the scraps of music. ark Fall is a great example of how a simple format or technique can be used to create compelling gameplay. NOIR uses the same format in stringing together black and white stills, stock footage and specially staged scenes to evoke the world of the film noir detective. Same format, completely different result. If I want to play something like Syberia, I'll play Gadget. It lets me explore a fair amount while forcing me along a set of rails as unyielding as those that carry its shadowy trains forth and back through the night. |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 4:06pm | |
Agustín CordesGuild MasterPosts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | You missed the whole point, pal. I was not saying that Syberia was a good game or not. In fact, my position about that was just "neutral". My anger was because I think its unexcusable to state that its a "masterpiece of the genre" because of all the things its missing as I said before. I think you're taking this quite personal and I didn't meant anything against you. Ok, sorry about the Phantasmagoria thing! Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 4:07pm | |
InlandAZGuild Master Posts : 5587 Joined: 4 MAY 2007 Status : Offline | I suppose one should have had a clue with a message title that began with: "Let's get things Straight" - It's as if (in your own mind) you know better than the rest of us - and a bit argumentative. Likes and dislikes are subjective - If you didn't like it, say so and move on. You're not going to convince anyone that did enjoy it otherwise. What? |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 4:10pm | |
Agustín CordesGuild MasterPosts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | Yes, MrLipid, I totally agree about the Myst thing As a development format its superb and obviously its great for independent companies. It would be very unfair to say that Dark Fall is a myst-clone. Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 4:28pm | |
MrLipidPrivate DetectivePosts : 666 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (24 OCT 2002 3:55pm) mR liPiD here.... I thought this was the Just Adventure Forum, not the Just Syberia Forum. I have repeatedly said I was thrilled that there were those who loved Syberia. That's terrific. I am very happy for them and, since you loved it, dimidimidimi, happy for you. There are those who don't love it. As this is a forum and not a convention, we are sharing our opinions. efend what you love or not. Our gripes shouldn't have anything to do with how you feel about the game. As for looking for extinction of some style of adventure, yes, I am. Bad adventure. ull adventure. Tedious and arbitrary adventure. Adventure where the goal is to read the mind of the designer rather than solve the challenges found while exploring a game world. Is that so much to ask? |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 5:14pm | |
bistroSorcerer Apprentice  Posts : 240 Joined: 15 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Lets get the things straight about Syberia No...This is my opinion about Syberia or...Why I didn't like Syberia Either one would have been more accurate. C'mon folks...some will like it, some will not. But let's please put some accuracy in our semantics. I've played some of what I considered GREAT adventure games...I was a Myst FREAK, but I toned that down to FAN once I realized that I was incorrect in my opinion that anyone who DIDN't like Myst didn't know what they were talking about. (Pretty shallow, eh?) If the game fully immerses me into the environment, makes me feel like I "made some friends" there and would like to re-visit, then that game is a success to me. Enthusiastically tell others about it? Sure! Expect every soul on the planet will like it? Nah. But at the same time, don't imply that I am wrong in my enthusiasm for it and I won't criticize you for NOT liking it. I may ask why, but in the long run...so what? I enjoyed it! And please, could someone give me the email of The Adventure Game Judge...you know...the one who is THE expert and can definitively judge which games are TRULY adventure? I have a few questions..... : |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 5:26pm | |
Agustín CordesGuild MasterPosts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | Ok, Bistro I DO agree but that was not my point! My complain was mainly towards reviewers. So what if there was people who liked the game or not? I'm fine with that. Of course its going to be that way! But, as MrLipid pointed, we *must* be aware of the faults the games we like has. As much as you may like a game you cannot state that its "The Second Coming Of Adventure Gaming" if its missing some crucial elements. Specially when you review a game you must be *objective* and I was totally annoyed when I saw sites claiming that this was the best thing to ever happen to the genre in years. That is my point, that is my complain. Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 6:17pm | |
mszvPrivate Detective Posts : 751 Joined: 12 OCT 2002 Status : Online | I'm trying not to sound insipid here, but I'm glad that by end of this thread, the rhetoric was turned down, just a notch. Who would have thought that adventure gamers would practically come to blows over a game? I love Syberia, but I read the posts with interest, to see what people didn't like about it. The game had the right amount of interaction and puzzle solving for me, but I admit I like an easy game with regards to solving puzzles. It's also very linear, so if you like non-linear games it's not the game for you. It's also a vehicle for showing off Benoit Sokal's visual style, but that also works for me. I liked Kate as a character, and I enjoyed the way the cell phone conversations gave me some background on Kate and where she came from. Kate was well worked out enough for me, I don't think the game demanded a more well worked out character. The game wasn't that much about her, it was about the Syberia adventure. Please, no flaming here. I'm just giving you my comments, my opinion, and telling you something about what I liked in the game. I'm not "every adventure gamer" or "all adventure gamers". I'm one adventure gamer, giving you my opinion about the game. You know, when you start a thread with Rael's interesting but extreme comments, you invite these kinds of responses, and the end result is flaming. If that's what Rael intended, it worked. I do prefer to post on threads where the tone is a bit less extreme, but I wanted to give you my opinion. Now let's see if Harriet can start another, less explosive topic on adventure games. Where are you Harriet? Regards, mszv |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 7:08pm | |
bistroSorcerer ApprenticePosts : 240 Joined: 15 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Originally Posted By Rael (24 OCT 2002 5:26pm) Frankly, I don't put that much stock in reviews (or at least try not to). Do I read them? Yes. Do I buy a game based on their review? Absolutely not. Trailers? They are commercials--designed to make the product look gooooood. Do I watch them? Sure...if for anything, just to make sure my Windows Media Player still works... Example: Schizm. Reviews (at least the ones I read) for the most part put this game as a "must have". I also read quite a few user reviews that said the same. I kept seeing it in the stores, but passed it up. Finally broke down and got it. It was mildly interesting, but in my opinion was no where near the great game others touted it to be---graphic quality was nowhere near MystIII (had to compare it with that, huh?) and the acting/voiceovers absolutely sucked. But that is my opinion. What it does is make me think twice when reading game reviews by the same authors. Again, there ain't no one around that I know (yet) that I would consider the definitive judge as to what is good Adventure and what is not. It's a matter of likes/dislikes, that's all. |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 7:44pm | |
Agustín CordesGuild MasterPosts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | Yes, Bistro, you're right. But it makes me feel bad and I think its very unfair to claim that a new game is a classic forgetting the marvelous legacy of past adventures. Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 27 OCT 2002 at 1:03am | |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor  Posts : 7058 Joined: 14 SEP 2003 Status : Online | Originally Posted By Aya_Brea (24 OCT 2002 1:26am) Yeah, but in TLJ you could hit Esc to skip the actual walking! And I'm pretty sure April could run too. I mean, Kate Walker is a pretty young lady, nice to look at when she's walking around... but if someone doesn't find it boring after several hours of playing, they've probably been lobotomized But to sum up - "Kingdom for a Map"! Having to walk/run/whatever back and forth in the same old environment gets real boring real quick. If you developers are too lazy to give me a really convenient way to get from A to B quickly, please at least gimme a way to skip from one screen to another instantly. The Legend games used to have pretty decent navigation - you could switch to map mode and move between screens real fast. I forgot my sig. |
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| 27 OCT 2002 at 1:35am | |
MichalNGrand InquisitorPosts : 7058 Joined: 14 SEP 2003 Status : Online | I couldn't comment on this earlier because I only finished Syberia this morining WARNING: spoilers ahead.Originally Posted By Rael (23 OCT 2002 8:29pm) You know what I think the problem is? For you (and me), Syberia is the victim of its own hype. I don't think it's a bad adventure at all. It just isn't as great as I was led to expect.
Yes, this got me too. If there's nothing you can do in a screen, don't put it in there! I don't care how good it looks. If it has no purpose in the game, I'm not interested in seeing it. Especially if I have to walk through it zillion times! Moving around Valadilene was no fun, the other locations weren't nearly as bad.
You must have a really smart monkey there. Could you please introduce me to it? Yes, I thought the puzzles were easy. No, I don't think after 10+ years of adventure gaming I'm a good judge of difficulty. I thought TLJ was dead easy too. I didn't think the close ups caused any kind of disconnection. The only certain thing about puzzles is that you can never satisfy everyone.
Just goes to show how little you know about automatons
It worked very well for me, I learned almost everything about her from the phone conversations. Although it was a bit predictable. After about the second call from Dan I thought, "Gee, if she doesn't dump this moronic yuppie, she's not half as smart as she looks". And the calls from her boss... well, I was surprised that she even considered boarding the plane at the end. I expected her to tell her boss to... well, the filter wouldn't like that.
I agree on this... the emotional connection that should occur in a great game just wasn't there for me. I cared for Kate a bit but not too much. The other characters were just props. Hans and Anna could have been interesting but there was zero interaction with them.
I think you're just a bit full of yourself What you've written here was essentially an opinionated review. What makes you think that yours is better than the ones you disagreed with? That is a serious question. But I agree with you, Syberia isn't excellent, just pretty good. Maybe technically excellent but not as far as the storyline and characters are concerned. It is also very short. Syberia took me roughly 12 hours to finish (no hints, no walkthroughs of course). GK3 took me more than that when I played it for the third time and I wasn't getting stuck. TLJ took me about 25 hours the first time. I suppose Syberia's ending is a setup for a sequel but it felt very incomplete. What was up with the mammoth automaton at the end? It didn't do anything at all. Summary: I agree with what you're saying, just not how you're saying it. Unless of course it was your intent to start a flamewar, in which case it worked perfectly. I forgot my sig. |
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| 27 OCT 2002 at 4:31am | |
gatorlawSorcerer Apprentice Posts : 377 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | One thing that puzzles me about this whole start up - is Why would it make you angry that anyone thought any game was great, the game of the month or the game of the decade or the best thing since sliced bread. Whether it is a reviewer?? Anyone who writes an opinion about any game - be it in a post or on flash cards is "reviewing" a game. I wrote a review about Syberia, I even labeled it a love song - because for whatever personal reason - the game was an immersive experience for ME. I tried to explain in detail my tastes and specifically to me - what was unique about this gaming experience versus others. Poeple can read it - discard it - whatever. I have never had any expectations that anyone would buy or not buy a game based on what I said - unless they agreed with the things I noted are important to me about a game and that I found it in the particular game that I was writing about. Anyway - getting back to your "anger". Don't you think that is a little inappropriate? You are entitled to dislike and flame a game - because it really comes down to the fact that you are entitled to your opinion - end of story. Are we supposed to get angry - because you didn't like Syberia? I don't think so. I certainly didn't feel any anger over that part of your post. So why - do you get angry that others liked it, loved it or wanted to marry it and have babies. If you feel intimidated from expressing yourself - because the majority (perceived or real) like something - that is your issue. I don't think anyone should be timid about expressing their impressions - regardless of what anyone says. I just think it is somewhat disingenuinous to say you are only raving against the fact that others liked something. So - we should only write thoughts that you find acceptable? If I say I loved the game - somehow I must be lying - because you don't agree with my tastes? I certainly don't think you would want to be held to that standard. If a reviewer, gamer or whatever says they think this is the best game ever - it is STILL just their opinion. I am perfectly happy to accept the fact that you have a right to dislike any game, product or whatever for any reason you care to give or not give. In return - I am allowed to express my views and trust me - they aren't personal or being written to p*** on your cheerios. they are simply my views ill conceived or misguided as you would like me to believe that they are. I only write what I genuinely think about any given game. As always these thoughts only really hold true for me. I do not pretend to speak for anyone else. Laura http://www.culpainnata.com&&&&Perfect world, or perfect nightmare? |
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| 27 OCT 2002 at 6:29am | |
MichalNGrand InquisitorPosts : 7058 Joined: 14 SEP 2003 Status : Online | Originally Posted By mszv (24 OCT 2002 6:17pm) What else should they come to blows over? I think that in moderation, flamewars add spice to any online forum. And if people can vent their frustration through flamewars, I'd say it's okay - as long as they can keep some level of civility. I have to admit that sometimes I'm guilty of inciting flamewars too. It's probably not a nice thing to do but I find it very educational to observe people's reactions. When some people consider themselves to be attacked, they will go into overdrive and start kicking around without thinking things through. I forgot my sig. |
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| 27 OCT 2002 at 10:23am | |
emmaPrivate Detective Posts : 525 Joined: 12 OCT 2002 Status : Online | I really liked Syberia when I'd finished it, after initially becoming disappointed with all the walking, the dead hot spots... I loved the pretty pictures, and I was happy that the phone calls where there, since that's was the ONLY way to get to know Kate. (I found the lack of any comments from her nerv wrecking, what is her mood?, what does she think?, that kind of thing.) I agree, the puzzle solving was too easy. I remember when I had the audacity to think TLJ was boring, and there was a major troup coming to its defence back then. Nowadays, it's more or less common to come across people who has found, for instance, the talking a bit too much. Are we now in the same situation, where it's politically incorrect to be an adventure gamer and feel differently than the majority? Perhaps the ASSUMPTION that you have to love the game, it's fantastic and marvellous and whatnot, somehow raises the expectations of the game so high, that finally they are bound to be disappointed? I confess, I didn't find the initial post rude or flaming... I read it, and thought, now here's a guy who's disappointed in a game, hehehehehe. I didn't feel that it was actually "attacking" anybody. Not a defence, but merely an observation, that perhaps some of the anger displayed here, is in the eye of the beholders, as much as the initial post was rude? *shrug* I dunno. I read you review Laura, and it was magnificent! It didn't echo what I felt about the game, but it sure made me wanna have the same experience as you did! Well done! [URL=http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=emma]My DVDs[/URL] | [URL=http://www.adventuregamers.com/]AdventureGamers[/URL] | I haven't lost my mind, I've got a backup on a disc somewhere. |
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| 27 OCT 2002 at 11:37am | |
dimidimidimiSchattenjgerPosts : 1784 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Laura can you tell me where could I find your review? I think I saw it in the beginning in Just adventure but at the time I read it only quickly cause I hadn't played syberia yet and I didn' t want to read any spoilers. If I haven't played a game then I usually read only about its graphics, sound and interface in the review and then I read the final grade. I don't read about the story because I want to get to know it the way the creator wanted it to be told. So now that I finished the game I would be really interested to read your love song about syberia. Now about this thread, I think it is not helping anything to start a new thread 'let's get things straight about the X game' then bury the game and then (especially this part I think is what caused such a wide response) call anybody who liked it ignorant about adventures or whatever (even if this is about reviewers or players). What makes a rael an expert of adventures that the others don't have anyway? I myself don't like Grim Fandango or Myst so much. I never opened up a new thread trying to bury either one of them. I criticised on controls or interfaces of modern games and then I brought as an example grim fandango but in my opinion this is different than burying a game and the people that like it with it. I think if the thread had a name 'my opinion about syberia', and didn't include the 'monkey' and the 'they have no idea about adventures' part then it would have been accepted in a different way. Dimitris PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com |
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| 27 OCT 2002 at 1:35pm | |
Agustín CordesGuild MasterPosts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | OK, lots of new opinions here. I like that I confess, I didn't find the initial post rude or flaming... I read it, and thought, now here's a guy who's disappointed in a game, hehehehehe. I didn't feel that it was actually "attacking" anybody. Of *course* I wasn't attacking anyone. Some people took it personal; I didn't mean that. As I concluded later, I agreed I was harsh. Maybe I was intending a flamewar but I thought it was necesary to "push some sensitive buttons" like a person said. Sorry if I did wrong. Now, my point: how much do you like Syberia? You liked the story; it moved you. But do you think it succeded as an adventure game? I know its exciting to like so much a new game because its fresh but do you like Syberia enough to claim its the best adventure ever and trash all the other classics? If you all think that way, thats fine. Its sad but its fine. Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 27 OCT 2002 at 2:40pm | |
gatorlawSorcerer ApprenticePosts : 377 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | I can see where it would appear that if a game is talked of as the best adventure ever - all those glorious predecessors could seem slighted. But again - it isn't unusual to talk in superlatives when you have just finished anything that you really got involved with. I never saw discussion of one game being a slight to any others, unless of course they are being compared in the article. One positive note about investing scarce dollars in a game that seems to be widely liked. If it doesn't happen to be a game that you like - at least you don't have to get stuck with it. With that much buzz - it shouldn't be hard to sell or trade. I also have noticed that there can be definite preference for puzzles vs storyline. I read another review elsewhere - I really can't recall where and it was not very positive about SYberia. The main criticism focused on the puzzles, their lack of challenge etc. The reviewer said something at the end to the effect "Puzzles are after all what a good adventure game is all about" In my case, the games I get most engrossed in are all about the story and the character interaction. That doesn't mean I didn't love the puzzles in 7th Guest or Riven. Or that I didn't adore the early Monkey Island games, Full Throttle - and obviously from my avatar choice - Sam and Max. BUT the games that I still think about are the ones I love the most. Like the story in the Legend of The Prophet series, GK2 and 3, the characters in TLJ and yes the story of Syberia. I spoke over the phone with Benoit Sokal not too long ago for an interview and he said, that in his opinion, - "It is all about the story". SO if your point of reference is the story and the relationships within and without the game - you might not love Syberia (stories too cover a wide range of tastes) but you would definitely not be too disappointed in it. IF the puzzles, challenges are what grab you - I think you could be disappointed in this game. My article is here: Syberia The Interview with Benoit is here at Gameboomers: Benoit Sokal I will say that Rael you are correct about the need for objectivity and I decided at the onset that I personally was too enamoured with the game to be objective and so termed it a love song or fan article rather than a review. I think that whether you like or dislike a game - if you have strong personal and emotional feelings either way - it would at least be good to qualify what you write and let the readers know. Laura http://www.culpainnata.com&&&&Perfect world, or perfect nightmare? |
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| 27 OCT 2002 at 4:21pm | |
| Deleted User | It's truly amazing what you can learn going over message board postings... 1 : Opinions are Subjective 2 : Mentioning fact one causes your opinion to become immediatley more valid 3 : Failing to mention fact one in your post will make your opinions dis-believed and therefore mocked publically 4 : Mentioning that someone failed to mention fact one in a post will automatically make your counter-opinion entirley valid 5 : Criticizing someone's manners is the quickesy way to belittle their opinion without actually having to cite evidence to refute it, and it actually fools everyone 6 : Mentioning when someone invokes rule four(above) makes your opinion automatically valid without actually invalidating their's 7 : If you think you are automatically right, then you are a pompous blowhard who is not to be taken seriously 8 : If I think I am automatically right, then you are a fool to think that I am wrong 9 : Just because a thread starts out discussing one game (Syberia) doesn't mean that it cant result in a discussion solely about the merit of other games (Myst, TLJ, S&M, etc.) 10 : Just because a thread starts out discussing games at all doesn't mean that later posts have to mention any kind of game and can just be critiques on observations of public discourse That being said, since I am inherently brilliant enough to psycho-analyze the lot of you and pass judgement on each of your characters without having to actually meet any one of you in person, I must also be supremely wise enough to pass judgement on the game Syberia It wasn't as good as the reviews said it was, but wasn't a bad game to play either. Reviews were as high as they were because they were written by fans of the genre who realized that, since so few ADV games are released these days, this was probably going to be the best one to be released for a while, and graded it on a scale subjective to that. To summarize: Playable, not great, not horrible, my word is law |
| 27 OCT 2002 at 4:46pm | |
AyaGrand Inquisitor Posts : 7277 Joined: 16 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | do you like Syberia enough to claim its the best adventure ever and trash all the other classics? Of course i'd never claim Syberia is the best adv EVER... but you nearly (or maybe solely) said it's the worst EVER... and there's a HUUUUGE difference between those two [repeating self]i say it's one of the best realeased the past 2-3 years[/repeating self] You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess. |
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