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| 23 OCT 2002 at 8:30pm | |
Agustín CordesGuild Master  Posts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | I'm tired of the praising this game has got. Syberia is as mediocre as an adventure game can be. It does some things right but there are bad things too. Besides some horrendous technical issues (big rooms with only a tiny exit?), Microids didn't take care of critical items that make a good adventure. Uninspired characters, pathetic puzzles, a lot of screens that has *nothing* to do with the game... I mean, if I'm in the mood to look some nice pictures I can just surf the web but it really pisses me off to get across five or six screens just to get to a single point in the game. Ok, congratulations: the graphics are nice! Well done, boys! But I think theres a game missing here: a monkey could solve the puzzles. They DON'T integrate with the story unlike some reviewers said. In fact, when you have to solve a puzzle, in many cases you get a close up. I think this "disconnects" you instead of drawing you into the game. An example of a bad puzzle is when you have to get the visa from the colonel just because the automaton asks for it... please! Another point: the annoying telephone conversations. They're unnecesary and they abruptly interrupt the story (I think they intend to show more of the personality of Kate but it doesn't work). Which takes me to the characters: they are the most uninspired I've seen in a while. Theres nothing interesting in them. Maybe this was intentional because of the "sad" climate of the story but it really hurts the game. In conclusion: this was just a vehicle to show Sokal's art. The story IS interesting but the unexistent puzzles, the bad scripted characters and the annoying wandering makes this just a *regular* game. Whoever says this is an excellent adventure has NO IDEA what an adventure game should be. Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 8:54pm | |
| Deleted User | hmm...interesting comments. I think you have high expecations one games you play. As for my personal opinion , I still think it's a great game. Although the automaton does get into my nerve but apart from that, i dont see any problem with that game. well, i think the creators wanna be realistic. See in real life you do get interrupted by someone calling you anytime anywhere . Of course she gets phone calls now and then coz she wasnt meant to be there for a such long time.Everybody she knows gets worried. Well, we all have different opinions about it. It's common that some people like it and some people dont. Well Rael, if you're so frustriated abot Syberia , just forget about that game . There are lots of other games that im sure thats more interesting than syberia. I wonder, did you knew it wasnt interesting and you still bought it? Or the other way around? Why didnt you sell it to any of your friends if you didnt liked it?Why did you even go through with the game if you said it wasnt at all interesting?hmm... |
| 23 OCT 2002 at 9:05pm | |
Agustín CordesGuild MasterPosts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | I don't know what you mean with that last sentence. I was *really* interested in this game and the introductory scene captivated me. But as soon as I started playing it, everything started to fall apart. Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 9:14pm | |
MrLipidPrivate Detective  Posts : 666 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | And I thought I was annoyed by Syberia! |
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 9:20pm | |
| Deleted User | Reah, you answered my question. Well, if i were you, i'd sell the game to my friends or in id sell it in ebay.If i bought a game and and found out that suddenly it sucked, i wont even finish the game. coz it'll break my heart more and more and it pure waste of time. however it makes me feel a lot better if i sell it to my friends and they like it. I didnt finish Casanova and Morrowind coz i think it wasnt interesting enough. But some of my friends liked it, so i sold it to them. I dont have any regrets not finishing the games that i find boring. |
| 23 OCT 2002 at 9:46pm | |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger Posts : 1784 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | ***I'm tired of the praising this game has got. *** Get used to it cause its gonna go ON and ON and ON ***Syberia is as mediocre as an adventure game can be.*** And you are as short-sighted as a person can be ***Uninspired characters, pathetic puzzles, a lot of screens that has *nothing* to do with the game*** The characters were one of the most interesting characters ever. The puzzles were great, logical and simple. If you want to bust your brain you can play a myst clone. Adventures are not about solving mathematical equations. They are about telling a story, and puzzles are a medium to progress through it. About a lot of screens that has nothing to do with the game, these actually add to the atmosphere and if you wanna know there are a lot of people who complain that screens in adventures nowadays are limited to minimum. I don't belong to either group cause I don't mind so unimportant details that only people who are looking for flaws do. ***a monkey could solve the puzzles. *** Hey mr. einstein some people said in here that they used walkthroughs. Does that make them monkeys? I told you adventures are not mathematical equations, they are games that focus on story telling. Get it in your head. ***the annoying telephone conversations. They're unnecesary and they abruptly interrupt the story*** Well just so you know good stories are not so one dimensional and don't focus only on the main incident of the game/movie/book. The character's have lives of their own and bringing some of it to the game makes it more realistic. ***they are the most uninspired I've seen in a while. Theres nothing interesting in them*** The characters are the most interesting I've seen after GK and TLJ. Come on for crying out loud, I can remember each and every one of them. Oscar gave you on your nerves? Did you get it that it is a machine? I thought that it was really realistic that Oscar was so down to the details about everything. It reminded me C3PO from star wars. And the rectors of the university were really funny. You could only care about Hans and Anna learning about their life as the story progresses. I don't know what kind of taste you have but it is definitely bad! ***Whoever says this is an excellent adventure has NO IDEA what an adventure game should be. *** I have played adventures for 10 years now and I don't accept from any guy with no taste having a smurf for an avatar telling me that I have no idea what an adventure game should be. I have a pretty damn good idea about what an adventure is and Syberia is one of the best representations of it. PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com |
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 9:51pm | |
dimidimidimiSchattenjgerPosts : 1784 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Can you also tell me one more thing? What do you get out of coming to this forum and 'burying' this game down? I'm so pissed off with your stupid bickering of good games cause people who haven't bought it might actually search on forums about ideas and although they don't have the same opinion as you they might get affected by your descriptions. Is this what you want adventure games sales to go down? And especially of a game that is one of the best that our genre has to show and from a company that is producing 3 adventure games in less than 2 years. And we are not talking about action/adventures here but traditional point and click adventures that make such a big effort to come back to where they belong. PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com |
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 10:06pm | |
GayleSchattenjger Posts : 2544 Joined: 12 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Rael, Well, I agree with you. I thought it a boring game and to equate it with TLJ is to bring shame to TLJ. However, that said. You and I didn't like the game, others did and what I can't figure out is why a person can't dislike an adventure game. I get the impression from this string of replies that some think that to say you didn't like an adventure game is to make lightning strike you down. Am I reading some of the replies the wrong way? Games are like politics and religion, there is no my way or your way and you can debate or argue until red in the face and I doubt that adventure sales will go into the trash heap if someone doesn't like a particular game. For each person there is a different opinion or point of view, whatever you want to term it. We also hear and have heard for quite a while now that RGP games are disappearing and you know what, neither genre is disappearing, or at least that seems to be that way to me. There are just lulls and it seems there quite a few adventure games coming into view in the next few months. :-/ |
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 10:21pm | |
dimidimidimiSchattenjgerPosts : 1784 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | There are many ways to say you don't like a game. You can go on and say you didn't like it and explain why, or you can be stronly opinionated about it and say things like : "a monkey could solve the puzzles. " "Whoever says this is an excellent adventure has NO IDEA what an adventure game should be. " But then you should also be prepared to be replied in a strongly opinionated way. I don't regret at all to reply the way I did. When you play with fire, you have to be prepared to get burned. I actually didn't use a walkthrough but some people did, this doesn't make them monkeys or something, and the fact that I and many many many others loved that game definitely does not mean that we have no idea about adventure games, but in my opinion shows the exact opposite. PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 12:56am | |
Agustín CordesGuild MasterPosts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | Look dimi, I've been playing adventure games for OVER 10 years, ok? My first one was King's Quest when it was released so I think you need to cool down. I love the genre and I think Myst was the WORST thing that could happen to it. I also hate companies like Dreamcatcher which produces "adventure" games like bread. I think the genre market right now stinks as opposite to some people says. The last REAL adventure game I played was The Longest Journey. THAT was a fine example of an adventure game. Challenging puzzles, an incredible deep story and unforgetable characters. But Syberia has nothing of that. So some people used walkthroughs? Ask them how many games they played. Ask them how long they've been playing adventure games. I dare you. I'm sad that beginners play this game because its very hollow and it doesn't show the power of the genre. You say the puzzles are logical? Of course they are! But the game almost solves them for you! Also, I'm doubting we're talking of the same game here. You say I go and play Myst? There are puzzles in Syberia *very inspired* by Myst. When you have to get the legs for Oscar is an example of it. And please, DO NOT attempt to compare Oscar to C3PO because you hurt me. Here, let me sugest you play some of these fine examples of the genre: Indy 4, Grim Fandango, Chronomaster, Kingdom O Magic, Gabriel Knight 2, Broken Sword, Beneath A Steel Sky... Are you really saying that Syberia compares to those? Go play a shooter. Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 1:18am | |
mszvPrivate Detective Posts : 751 Joined: 12 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Gee, MrLipid you are right. Compared to Rael, you loved the game! I loved Syberia, but I don't think we all have to like the same game. I really enjoy doing the "compare and contrast" thing. I also enjoy reading reasons why other people don't like a game I love; I always feel I learn something. I would suggest, kindly, that it's not possible to have an interesting discussion about a game when one says that anyone who likes a game "has NO idea what an adventure game is like". I really like Syberia. oes that mean I have no idea what an adventure game is like? That just seems so.... harsh. Of course, maybe there was no intent to have a discussion about Syberia. If so, I'll just jump to another fine thread on the Just Adventure forum. Regards, mszv |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 1:26am | |
AyaGrand Inquisitor  Posts : 7277 Joined: 16 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | i have to agree with both rael and dimi here! on one hand rael is right about syberia being unbelievably easy but on the other hand it was a fine example of atmosphere and storytelling... of course the difficulty level depends on who plays the game... yes if you're playing advs for 10 years (me = 14 years ) you'll think that a monkey could solve the puzzles... but if you're new to the genre then you'll probably have some harder time (or maybe not)... but to a newcomer to advs, very hard level of difficulty might be a turn off, so maybe it was ok for them... and where were the challenging puzzles in TLJ anyway?... ok it was a bit harder, but only in the meaning of having to stop and think a bit instead of playing straightforward like in Syberia... but it was too very easy... it's a general fact that most of the recent advs (especially the most popular ones) are way easier than they were 10 years ago... rael you give Broken Sword as a fine example and i agree 100%, but imo it was a hell of an easy adv to play too... so in conclusion the difficulty level alone is not a reason to praise or bash a game simply because it's not the same for everyone as for the anoying wandering, i remember a lot of that in TLJ too... especially in arcadia outside the city walls... and in Syberia you could at least double-click to run... there are games that have you wander around WALKING ... i remember simon 1 pissing the hell out of me speedwise... but i always said it was an excellent adv... anyway on that subject, double-clicking to instant exit is the best solution for this (like in MI3) Probable Spoiler oh and finally i didn't find the phone calls annoying at all... i think they help us see the evolution of Kate's character and the reason why she chose not to ride the plane but rather to follow Hans You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess. |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 2:00am | |
Agustín CordesGuild MasterPosts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | One note: that message about the "no idea about adventure games" was mainly towards some reviewers. I don't mean to be "harsh" and of course a discussion is welcome. But I was very angry because I readed yet another review praising this game so I rushed to post my thoughts. Ok, so maybe the difficulty level doesn't mean that the adventure is bad. But you can't say that its "one of the best representations of the genre" if it doesn't have some really good puzzles. Remember what I said in my first post: they *need* to be integrated in the story. This doesn't happens with Syberia; it just seems that they're "on the way". The puzzles in Broken Sword where on the easy side (except for that devious goat) but they were masterfully integrated with the story. I can't say the same for The Longest Journey but surely it was better done than Syberia (and I said that it was the last good adventure I played not one of the best). Maybe Simon had a lot of wandering but also had a lot TO DO. Lots and lots of puzzles. In Syberia you go walking around, solve one little problem and then go on. You must agree that it is a badly scripted game. The atmosphere and graphics are EXCELLENT. And this game could have been a classic had the makers took more care with some critical issues. But, as I said before, its just a *regular* adventure. You can't say that its a great representation of the genre because its missing a lot of it. That is my point. Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 2:17am | |
| Deleted User | Opinions are like ___holes, everybody has one....I for one enjoyed it, It wasnt the best Adventure Ive ever played, and by way far, was not the worst..If you'd like a challenge try playing Rhem, A nice little piece of work by knut mueller.. This game will have you crawling back to syberia wanting to talk to oscar again......... |
| 24 OCT 2002 at 2:19am | |
InlandAZGuild Master Posts : 5586 Joined: 4 MAY 2007 Status : Offline | Your long winded speech didn't change my opinion - but, I bet it made you feel better. I thought it was a great game. What? |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 2:29am | |
AyaGrand InquisitorPosts : 7277 Joined: 16 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | the bad thing is that there is not a big competition the past 3-4 years on which the best adv is... you have to admit that Syberia is one of the best released within this period of time... i understand what you're trying to say (and maybe you would have said the same when TLJ was released)... but to me Syberia was very enjoyable and got me hooked, if only for the few hours (in total) it took me to finish it... and i couldn't wait to play again each time i stopped to go to sleep (i don't play more than 2 or maybe 3 hours a day)... and i felt sad when it was all over... all this means Syberia stimulated me emotionaly, and this is what a game of this genre should do, be it easy or hard, goodly or badly scripted, slow or fast paced etc You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess. |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 3:10am | |
MrLipidPrivate DetectivePosts : 666 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Aya_Brea (24 OCT 2002 2:29am) One of the few things I remember from freshman English was a comment by Goethe. The comment was "Context is everything." And I think Aya Brea has provided that context. Syberia seems like a mountain because it is surrounded by prairie. It is possible for the best of a poor season to be considered good within that season and mediocre within the larger context of the genre. I think Syberia, if it is remembered, will be remembered as pretty, shallow and short. But for the moment, for some, it's a wonder. And to those for whom this is true, this is a good season. |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 3:15am | |
MichaelIntergalactic Janitor  Posts : 53 Joined: 19 OCT 2002 Status : Online | I am ecstatic that someone agrees with me. I never really liked Syberia, but because everyone else seemed to love it, I just kept quiet. I must applaud you, Rael, for posting your true opinion, an opinon that went against everyone elses. You put me to shame. Simply put, I thought Syberia was boring. The story is unique. However, unique doesn't equal entertaining. I didn't find the story to be interesting. I guess it is just my taste. I enjoy games that are a little more...thrilling. Graphics and music are AMAZING. But when a game is released with outdated or poor graphics, don't most of us usually always say that, in an adventure game, it is only the story and the gameplay that matters? I seem to be one of the few people that stands true to this. I don't judge a game on how pretty it looks or how it sounds. Puzzles (which I didn't mind - easy puzzles are fine with me), story and basically how it makes me feel matter the most. Syberia put me to sleep. Call me immature or narrow-minded, I don't mind. I won't get as defensive as some people seem to be getting. Everyone is different and we all have our own opinions. -Michael |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 3:16am | |
Agustín CordesGuild MasterPosts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | Ok, you have your point. In my case, the story didn't hook me because of all the problems the game has. Maybe I'm just getting less tolerant. And maybe I can accept that Syberia is better than a lot of new adventures. But under any circumstances I will accept that this is a fine representation of the genre. That would be an insult to the real gems that really deserve that title. That was just everything I meant to say. Everybody is saying that this game is the Second Coming but a good story and nice graphics doesn't make a game. You must be objective in that matter. Syberia is missing crucial elements that belongs in adventure games. Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 3:20am | |
InlandAZGuild MasterPosts : 5586 Joined: 4 MAY 2007 Status : Offline | And the bottom line is: To each his own. What? |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 3:22am | |
Agustín CordesGuild MasterPosts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | Well, as I was writing my reply, Michael posted similar thoughts. Of course, I agree with you And I also agree with Mr. Lipid. Thats exactly what I mean! Syberia is one of the best adventure games of the year? Sure it is!! Its one of the best of the last five years? No, it isn't. Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 7:35am | |
dimidimidimiSchattenjgerPosts : 1784 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Online | ***Syberia is one of the best adventure games of the year? Sure it is!! Its one of the best of the last five years? No, it isn't. *** posted by Rael You forget often to put ...in my opinion...in what you say. Since you do it I'll do it. Top 10 adventure games of all time: 1. GK2 The beast within 2. The Longest Journey *3. SYBERIA* 4. GK3 Blood of the sacred, blood of the damned 5. Broken Sword 1 6. Dark Seed 7. Quest for Glory 3 8. Phantasmagoria 9. Day of the tentacle 10. King's Quest 6 Things are not what they used to be what they were 15 years ago. I don't like people who want to change the core concepts of adventures making them action adventures or anything else, but on the same time I don't expect adventure games to be as they were 15 years ago. In my opinion a lot of adventures have suffered from difficult illogical puzzles, and there are thousands of cases were people bought adventures and never finished them cause they were stuck and lost interest. One of the biggest flaws of adventures of the past was this, the lost of interest to the story because of illogical hard puzzles. Finally some people understand it and things get to the better. IF you see in my first 4 favourites 3 of them were made the last 3 years. I accept and welcome that change and so should you. You have to admit also that the stories of the latest adventures are more interesting and for more mature audiences compared to the adventures of 10-15 years ago. I think this is also a plus and I am very pleased if more adventures follow these paradigms. There are many adventures with hard puzzles disgracing our genre and putting off many people from them. Try black dahlia for example or mystery of the druids. If you want more adventures like these then I think this forum is going to get very lonely in some years (u know, like a forum for people who have an iq higher than a monkey). PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 7:45am | |
bleepnikPrivate Detective Posts : 544 Joined: 13 OCT 2002 Location: US Status : Offline | Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (24 OCT 2002 7:34am) A completely irrelevant aside: the word (damned, obviously) can appear in a game's title, but not in our posts. Perhaps it's because I've been deprived of sleep for far too long, or because I'm a bit... off.. that way, but I find that endlessly amusing. *chortle* .gita |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 12:30pm | |
Agustín CordesGuild MasterPosts : 5696 Joined: 23 OCT 2002 Location: AR, Buenos Aires Status : Offline | No offense intented, but I don't think you're true to the adventure genre. You think today adventures have better plots? Aside from TLJ and perhaps Syberia, a high percentage of the adventures coming out these days are about historical dramas or they don't even have a plot like Schizm, Rhem, blah blah Also, you think that the "modern" adventures are for mature audiences? Play Gateway, Chronomaster, I Have No Mouth..., Amber,... the list is endless. None of the adventures I named have illogical puzzles. Let me ask you a question: how much lasted for you an adventure game years ago? I remember taking two whole months to beat Zak McKracken and I didn't get bored just one second. Ok, so maybe the puzzles wheren't *that* logical but that cute two disks game had more play value than present adventures... all together! You know why? Because today companies want to appeal a wider audience putting out easy games. Maybe Syberia has an interesting story but I want a CHALLENGE also. The puzzles seems like they're just to bother so you can't solve the game in one hour. Also, you name Black Dahlia and Mystery Of The Druids and they're quite modern. Of course, I think those games suck. If you've been playing games for ten years you can give me better examples. Regarding your top ten list... well, congratulations, its nice. I'm not sure why you listed them but seeing Phantasmagoria I can undertand why you like so much Syberia. Do you dare call it a *game*? Slightly Deranged - Cult Cinema And Games! |
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| 24 OCT 2002 at 12:43pm | |
MrLipidPrivate DetectivePosts : 666 Joined: 10 OCT 2002 Status : Offline | In the opinion of dimidimidimi, the following are the.....Originally Posted By dimidimidimi (24 OCT 2002 7:34am) This list alone is enough to start plenty of fights, so I think I'll let it pass without comment. In my opinion a lot of adventures have suffered from difficult illogical puzzles, and there are thousands of cases were people bought adventures and never finished them cause they were stuck and lost interest. Combining the above comments with the comments that follow suggests mature adventures filled with easy puzzles. Games designed for players who can handle adult content but don't want to be slowed down by anything more difficult than finding a key. Why not just make click through graphic novels? Why bother with puzzles at all? For that matter, why not just read a book? I accept and welcome that change and so should you. You have to admit also that the stories of the latest adventures are more interesting and for more mature audiences compared to the adventures of 10-15 years ago. I think this is also a plus and I am very pleased if more adventures follow these paradigms. Glad you're happy, dimidimidimi. Speaking only for myself and those who share my love of hard, fair puzzles, I find the thought of a series of Syberia-clones pretty dismal. Not sure I have the stomach for endless quests through beautiful but empty scenes in search of one more key. Of course, for those for whom that would be gaming heaven, the future, if it turns out that way, will be bright indeed. |
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