| 15 MAR 2008 at 2:15pm |
| Deleted User | To tell the truth, IIRC I can’t remember being either horrified or shocked by the so called horror games (with one notable exception). In fact, I have found that all the skeletons popping up, chains rattling, ghosts moaning mournfully, etc., leave me quite cold or frequently are risible !!
The only exception I can remember is the “Blackstone Chronicles”. The fact that I remember it at my age, 10 years after I played it, attests to its horrific nature. And it’s not done overtly with pools of blood and shrieks of anguish.
It is done by indirect implication. I still recall with trepidation the bottled internal organs of young children on shelves in the “laboratory”.
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| 15 MAR 2008 at 3:51pm |
| Deleted User | Ooh, yukkk! :-X Well, Len, I'm shocked to hear what you have been playing! So now you can tell us why you played horrible games like that!
Oh by the way, good to see DITR has been getting good reviews as far as I can see. [smiley=thumbsup.gif]
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| 15 MAR 2008 at 5:25pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5587
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | It is done by indirect implication. I still recall with trepidation the bottled internal organs of young children on shelves in the “laboratory”.
Those are the spookiest types -
Scratches has a nice little Hitchcock moment - just a fast moving shadowy blur, but enough to scare your pants off when it happens.
Zork Nemesis had several in the Asylum (that area always leaves me with an uneasy feeling).
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| 15 MAR 2008 at 5:49pm |
| Deleted User | Yes... I find that the most obvious & blatant spooky creations and horrors are generally so artificial that they don't personally move me at all.
The REALLY frightening things are best cleverly hinted at, leaving the true horrors to your imagination.
Since I'm a great materialist, all the supernatural terrors have no effect upon me in the slightest!
IIRC, in "IG" I remember to this day (after a dozen years or more) a scene where the villain of the team has his arm caught in a crevice or something and it has to be cut off to save him.
Ugh... Feh... too many of those ghastly incidents in real life !!!
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| 15 MAR 2008 at 6:20pm |
| Deleted User | Oh by the way, good to see DITR has been getting good reviews as far as I can see.
I haven't seen any reviews anywhere. Are there any already ?
I think that the game is due to be officially released in a couple of days or so !
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| 15 MAR 2008 at 6:20pm |
| Deleted User | Have any of you ever played a horror game that felt so bad to you that you felt you couldn't finish it?
The relentless horror in Call of Cthulu: Dark Corners of the Earth eventually got to me so badly that I decided I needed a rest from it and I put it in my cupboard, never to pick it up again.
In Doom3 I was also too much of a woose to carry on for very long....
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| 15 MAR 2008 at 6:24pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By LenG (15 MAR 2008 6:19pm)
Oh by the way, good to see DITR has been getting good reviews as far as I can see.
I haven't seen any reviews anywhere. Are there any already ?
I think that the game is due to be officially released in a couple of days or so !
Oh, so is the review on JA+ by Alexander Tait not an independent review then? Are you saying that that is an "inside job"? Hehe.
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| 15 MAR 2008 at 8:08pm |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5540
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By InlandAZ (15 MAR 2008 5:25pm)
It is done by indirect implication. I still recall with trepidation the bottled internal organs of young children on shelves in the “laboratory”.
Those are the spookiest types -
Scratches has a nice little Hitchcock moment - just a fast moving shadowy blur, but enough to scare your pants off when it happens.
Oh, yes! That was one of the scariest moments in the game for me. I was already tense because of the situation, and that little touch was enough to nearly knock me out of my chair. I agree, the best suspense and horror games (or movies for that matter) don't rely on tawdry blood and gore, but on psychological effects of that sort. Our minds are more than capable supplying scary enough things with the right suggestions.
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| 15 MAR 2008 at 8:28pm |
| Deleted User | Oh, so is the review on JA+ by Alexander Tait not an independent review then? Are you saying that that is an "inside job"? Hehe.
Do I detect a smidgen of sarcasm there ?
I'm sure I went to JA+ main page just a very few hours ago and it wasn't there AFAIK.
Anyhow... thanks for the info .......... I'm going to read it now !!
BTW ....... what's the reference to "independent"... non comprende ???
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| 15 MAR 2008 at 10:27pm |
KarstenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 347
Joined: 23 SEP 2006
Location: DK
Status : Offline | To me, psychologically, the reason for this must be that humans always have enjoyed good spook or horror story - maybe even from the dawn of times. Think about early man sitting around the camp fire telling stories about horrific escapes from what they maybe thought would be certain deaths....
Children seem to enjoy horrific, thrilling stories as well as adults. Psychologically, I think that children need to be exposed to thrillers and horror movies and games etc. at an early age, of course aimed at their level of understanding etc. It will help them master the unknown and to not be afraid of the dark (to paraphrase a book and tv-series...).
We all experience the unknown at some time, we all experience something that we are afraid to do. Being exposed to tales of how other people have overcome their fears might help us face our own fears and to be as afraid of the unknown....when venturing forth...
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| 16 MAR 2008 at 1:02am |
jenmarieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 62
Joined: 4 OCT 2007
Status : Offline | I'm a big chicken when it comes to horror anything. I played Shivers and at the time our computer was downstairs. Most often I'd be all alone downstairs with just the light over the computer on, so the rest of the room was dark. I had to turn the sound off because the music was getting to me. Finally, I gave up playing it altogether and never finished. I'm not even sure if Shivers is catagorized as horror, but it was creepy enough for me.
OTOH, was Sanitarium classified as horror? Because that got to me in one or two cases, but mostly I was okay and finished it and thought it was a great game.
"Undoubtedly, Sputnik inspired Americans, perhaps for the last time, to the idea of being frontiersmen,"&&&&For the LAST time? How depressing...&&How can we not be inspired to be frontiersmen? Let's go explore.
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| 16 MAR 2008 at 3:32am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16552
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I can't play horror. I chickened out of Dark Fall. The robot in Timelapse got my heart racing every time he appeared. I'm totally useless at any killing activity - freaked out in Atlantis III and all I had to do there was club a guard.
Why do people like scaring themselves? Because it means there really aren't any monsters lurking in the forests at night. Honestly, people have been telling horror stories to themselves since they invented talking. I think Karsten's analysis is correct.
However, I do wonder how real horror, such as living in a war zone, impacts upon a person's ability to tolerate fictional violence. Is it only fun if it's impossible to be true?
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| 16 MAR 2008 at 9:30am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By LenG (15 MAR 2008 8:28pm)
Oh, so is the review on JA+ by Alexander Tait not an independent review then? Are you saying that that is an "inside job"? Hehe.
Do I detect a smidgen of sarcasm there ?
I'm sure I went to JA+ main page just a very few hours ago and it wasn't there AFAIK.
Anyhow... thanks for the info .......... I'm going to read it now !!
BTW ....... what's the reference to "independent"... non comprende ???
Poor Len! [smiley=sorry.gif] I admit it's hard to tell when I'm being sarcastic, and when not. For a change, I actually wasn't being completely sarcastic, as I had assumed at first that you knew about the review. So I surmised about 2 possibilities:
1) That actually your'e not aware of the review, in which case I suppose you could apply a little sarcasm to my reply; or
2) That you are aware of the review, but it didn't count in your book, because the reviewer had access to the game because he is known to you/Atropos studios - which is what I meant by "not independent"
(Or in other words, I wasn't quite sure what to make of your initial response, as it confused me that you didn't seem to know about any reviews)
Comprende? [smiley=shrug.gif]
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| 16 MAR 2008 at 9:47am |
| Deleted User | People are genetically programmed to cope with survival in a hostile world. Not too long ago we were still preyed upon by wild animals and the like. Also, all living creatures are programmed to play out the "strongest will survive" scenario, by the very nature of our world. Fictional horror therefore has many roles to fill; it 'keeps us on our toes' so to speak.
While fictionally recreating 'horror', we are working out strategies how to cope with horrors we come across in real life.
It's only in recent times that we have lead relatively safe lives regarding predators and the like, but many authors have remarked that the most dangerous animal of all is Man. Let's be excruciatingly honest here, just as much as love and nurturing is part of our survival repetoire, so is violence. Juxtapose yourself 3 000 years into the past, and see how far you get if you didn't put your innate violence to good use.
My take on the matter is that we should never try to alienate ourselves from the violence innate in human genes. We should recognise it for the survival tool it is, and manage it as such. It is when it gets out of control and out of context, that it becomes an evil.
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| 16 MAR 2008 at 10:33am |
| Deleted User | ~~ Traveler ~~ ... Poor Len! I admit it's hard to tell when I'm being sarcastic, and when not. For a change, I actually wasn't being completely sarcastic, as I had assumed at first that you knew about the review. So I surmised about 2 possibilities:
1) That actually your'e not aware of the review, in which case I suppose you could apply a little sarcasm to my reply; or
2) That you are aware of the review, but it didn't count in your book, because the reviewer had access to the game because he is known to you/Atropos studios - which is what I meant by "not independent"
(Or in other words, I wasn't quite sure what to make of your initial response, as it confused me that you didn't seem to know about any reviews)
Comprende?
Sorry… I should have known …………. My Bad !
Actually, I really didn’t know and was quite surprised. The ‘facts’ are as follows… as far as I know them !
I don’t think that Alexander Tait had any ‘prior’ access to the game… other than being given a review copy some few days ago.
I think that Alkis would very much have liked Aya to have reviewed DITR since AFAIK he’s very enthusiastic (as am I) and also I believe knows Alkis better than I do (although our relationship has been extremely close & friendly over the past many months) since he’s a fellow compatriot … Greece; or should I say Hellas ?
But Aya ruled himself out since, like me, he was a beta tester, and it’s considered to be “unethical” for a tester to write a review being too close to the Developers and one of the ‘team’!
[size=16]The game is going to be officially released tomorrow (Monday, 17th of March)… hence I was very surprised that a Review had already been posted and I thought that you were referring to something else.
Hope that explains everything … and most importantly that only a couple of wires got crossed ! [smiley=love.gif] [smiley=angel_smiley.gif]
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| 16 MAR 2008 at 11:25am |
| Deleted User | Thanks for the info, Len! [smiley=cool.gif] Hope the game does well.
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| 16 MAR 2008 at 12:00pm |
| Deleted User | However, I do wonder how real horror, such as living in a war zone, impacts upon a person's ability to tolerate fictional violence. Is it only fun if it's impossible to be true?
I can't say that I've actually been living in a war 'zone' but I seem to have been close to war all my 8+ decades.
I was born (in England) only 7 years after the end of WW-I and, rightly or wrongly in my youth the ramifications were still quite strong (The Huns, the Boche, the Krauts, etc., etc.).
When I was 14 y.o. WW-II broke out... the Blitz on London & later the V1 & V2 rockets, the Holocaust (which by pure lucky circumstances of birth I was not personally exterminated), in Israel wars on the average every 8 years, regular suicide bombings (one killing 15 youngsters about 200 meters from our apartment on a bus we usually travel on).
However it is not this which has made me almost impervious to so called horror in Quest-Adventures. When the horror is realistic i.e. torture, mutilation, maiming, etc. I am as shocked and upset as anybody. But all the fictitious ersatz so called frightening episodes, mainly connected to superstition and supernatural have no effect upon me whatsoever and sometimes quite frankly I find quite ludicrous.
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| 16 MAR 2008 at 4:44pm |
KarstenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 347
Joined: 23 SEP 2006
Location: DK
Status : Offline | I have made a decision a long time ago to not buy games or movies that either support or seem to support what is known as (somewhat) realistic maiming, killing, torturing etc. Just like LenG I'm as abhorred as the next guy. However, I don't have a problem with these games being made - as long as as I'm free to not buy these games. I think you all know what games I'm talking about here.
The reason for not buying these games is simply because I hope it will spread so the developers etc. won't sell as many copies of these games. And that this in turn will mean that these games won't be made anymore...
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| 16 MAR 2008 at 6:51pm |
| Deleted User | ~~ Hi Karsten ~~
Don't get me wrong ... I was in no way criticizing people who like (some even LOVE) horror games or trying to influence anybody.
I was simply trying to say that, with maybe 1 or 2 exceptions, I myself don't find them horrifying and I'm surprised how many of that ilk are played and sold and enjoyed !!
I don't at all dislike games which have a touch of horror or grotesquery in them, but the many games in which this is the overall main theme generally bore me since so many are based on haunting ghosts, &/or supernatural, magical, occult, paranormal, spooky, etc., events which do not have the tiniest influence on me.
Maybe too much of a scientific temperament & background !!
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| 16 MAR 2008 at 9:39pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16552
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Good lord, they make games where people are tortured? What sort of sicko finds this entertainment? >
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| 16 MAR 2008 at 10:31pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6694
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By Caroline (16 MAR 2008 9:38pm)
Good lord, they make games where people are tortured? What sort of sicko finds this entertainment? >
In the original Quake games from Id Software, which sold in the millions, there were lots of alien torture chambers that involved human marines on conveyor belts being sliced, diced, squashed and liquified.
Matter of fact, many FPS titles have ultra gory content like that as do many RPGs. However, it is very rare that the player actually does any torturing in these games. Instead you usually play the hero trying to save hapless victims from evil-doers. But sometimes those villians are other human beings and you can maim / kill them in some pretty creative and graphically violent ways.
Cheers, Terry
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| 16 MAR 2008 at 11:35pm |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Sorry for the off topic post but I just read the discussion between Len and Ms. TheTraveler.
I must clarify that although Len was a beta tester of Diamonds in the Rough, and helped us in many other ways (too many to list) as well, he does not work for Atropos Studios and therefore it is only natural that he doesn't know which sites & magazines have received the game at this point.
I offered Just Adventure a few days of "advantage" before I sent the game elsewhere because this is the web site that feels more like home to me, and I wanted them to have it first. I of course did not know who was going to review it. I am honored that we got such a positive feedback, especially coming from someone who does not have a reputation of handling 'A's for no good reason.
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| 17 MAR 2008 at 12:49am |
| Deleted User | ~~ Alkis ~~
Apologies if I gave the impression that I work for 'Atropos Studios'.
As he knows, I only helped with the beta testing, and English editing (and walkthrough based upon a good but not perfect knowledge of the game).
But I had nothing whatsoever to do with any of the manifold 'technicalities' including dates, reviews, and other 'administrative' hassles.
I haven't even LOOKED at what I wrote previously ... but whatever it was, it was only in the nature of guesswork !!
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| 17 MAR 2008 at 6:32am |
| Deleted User | I apologise if I in any way implied that I thought Len is an 'employee' of Atropos studios.
Len never implied that in any of his posts, only mentioning that he was a beta-tester and wrote a walkthrough.
However, in my mind someone who beta tested a game would automatically feel an emotional investment in the game, almost as if he actually was a part of the dev team, although of course he/she isn't, and betatesting alone will not necessarily lead to the person even liking the game.
However, from previous correspondence with him, I know that Len is very enthusiastic about the game, and it is purely on these grounds that I have been expressing my positive wishes for the game, as well as for your sake, Alkis.
This little comedy of errors probably has a lot to do with split second timing. I must have logged on to the site a while after Len did, and as the blurb for the review is prominently displayed on the homepage, I suppose I incorrectly assumed that everybody who was logged in would be aware of it.
My apologies in all directions.
I also did not mean to imply that Atropos would in any way ever do anything that might be construed as unethical, and I apologise if there was any hint of that in any of my posts.
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