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| 13 MAR 2008 at 11:56am | |
stevemacIntergalactic Janitor  Posts : 91 Joined: 15 OCT 2002 Status : Online | Did we get out of bed on the wrong side today Traveller? Who really cares about the idiots that you find in all walks of life, not just the gaming community. The main console users I know generally play in groups after a night in the pub (and curry house) and just want to show off their 'drunken skills' as it's much easier to just shove an expensive (by PC game costs) cd/dvd into their console permanently plugged into their enormous TV and just play without having to wait for Windows to load all it's junk before you can get going. I would have thought that it would make economic sense for a 'console game' company to wait till they had maximised their 'must have it now' buyers and then port it over to the PC for us to buy. Unfortunately, my co-ordination is too shot to be able to use a gamepad with any form of accuracy, so prefer a keyboard and/or mouse which just doesn't happen on a console ...but at least I can be a back seat driver when my friends are playing console games, even if I am delegated to tea and coffee making duties because of my 'handicap'. |
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| 14 MAR 2008 at 5:30pm | |
| Deleted User | It's not the use of a gamepad that bothers me. I've often played on a friends' Xbox360 and I have a PS2, and I use a gamepad on my PC, and I actually have quite a lot of fun using the gamepad. It's just a matter of getting used to, and I find that one does have more versatile movement of your character with the little thumbstick. No, what bothers me is a much deeper issue. I feel as if PC gaming is being threatened by a certain perception out there that the "real" gamers are the console guys, and that PC gamers must consider themselves lucky if they are thrown a few crumbs in the form of a belated and hastily done port. It's not really the gamers themselves that worry me, it's the fact that publishers seem to have bought into the "console is King" idea, and we PC guys just have to be happy with a half-baked port, if any port at all. I guess what your'e saying, Stevemac, is that I shouldn't let myself get spooked by the bluff that certain games won't go to PC, as eventually, when the console sales have bottomed out, it does eventually get ported to PC. Granted, I accede your point. There are a lot of games that don't get ported though, like the Zelda games. Maybe I should forget about a 360 and just get a Wii..... |
| 14 MAR 2008 at 11:16pm | |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor  Posts : 6693 Joined: 16 OCT 2004 Location: US, Texas Status : Online | . In defense of game studios, publishers and resellers, console systems simply make a great deal more sense at every level from end to end. Compared to the PC platform, development, testing, distribution and support for console titles are a breeze and the financial risk to potential profit ratio is far, far better. From the average consumer's perpsective, there are several very obvious benefits to closed systems including a lower initial hardware cost, much easier use, far fewer headaches, and vastly improved software compatibility. For we avid PC game fans it has always been a fairly expensive, complicated venture and given all the above, frankly we are lucky to still get several good new games in every genre every year. Hey, the entire industry has grown to mega proportions in the past two decades and it was inevitable that publishers, investors, retailers and others adopt a more streamlined, predictable set of standards like virtually all consumer-driven businesses do. Lambasting people who risk their own money and pour huge amounts of time / effort into making games for wanting a more stable environment is really unfair. There is nothing stopping anybody from taking the extra risks involved in creating PC games. Just remember that most who do try fail and many of those who succeed eventually want to cash in and sell out. The same thing happens in every industry. So why should we be surprised when a PC game maker opts for an easier, safer, more lucrative path? Cheers, Terry |
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| 15 MAR 2008 at 9:08am | |
| Deleted User | The one reason I was as close to dammit to getting a 360, was exactly because a closed system implies better compatibility. Of course , in addition, it would be nice to get your games earlier as well, as console always comes out first. I subsequently realised the limitations it imposes are simply not worth it. PC always has the freedom of programming and modding that a closed system simply can't give you. Agreed, it's easier for a 14-year old kid to just plunk a disc in, and know it's going to work. But for the user who values variety, PC simply can't be beaten. I understand all the monetary and economical reasons you gave for the industry preferring consoles, Terry, and of course one cannot blame them for taking what seems to be the safest route, but it makes me quake in my boots that the signs seem to be pointing at the death of popular PC gaming. God forbid that ever happens. |
| 15 MAR 2008 at 11:21am | |
stevemacIntergalactic JanitorPosts : 91 Joined: 15 OCT 2002 Status : Online | I don't think that PC gaming will ever die completely, nor will adventure games. I subscribe to a UK PC gaming magazine and they have been going on about the death of adventure games for the last 4 years or so, only to be pleasantly surprised when they get a good game to review and actually give it a decent review. For non AG players (and magazine reviewers) I feel that the biggest problem is that they cannot think outside of the box (so to speak) and any puzzle element that can't be solved in two minutes is labelled 'obscure'. Another thing that seems to irk them is that in some AGs the graphic element is not 'groundbreaking', when ...and I hope it's not just me ...I'm happy with 'old fashioned' graphics as long as the gameplay is sound. But as you say Traveller, unfortunately fewer games are getting ported to PC. I really loved the first 2 Oddworld games and took great delight in finding all the secrets ..but the 3rd (Munche's oddysee?) has never been ported and sometimes I do wish that I could use a gamepad as I would buy a PS just to play that game ...sigh! |
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| 15 MAR 2008 at 4:48pm | |
| Deleted User | Well, that's exactly the reason I originally bought a PS2- to catch the games that don't get ported. But now PS3 is too expensive, and my sister is too far for me to borrow her Wii, and most xbox games luckily do seem to port eventually. However, there's a lot of games on varied consoles (Gamecube, for example) that isn't on PC but looks interesting. I'm afraid I simply don't have the cash to go and buy every console on the market to make sure I cover all the games. I guess if I really had to choose I'd go for Wii and or Gamecube. |
| 16 MAR 2008 at 3:26am | |
MKBSorcerer Apprentice  Posts : 241 Joined: 24 AUG 2006 Status : Offline | I've got an old Super Nintendo, a PS2 and a Wii. Never play any of them. Their only purpose in this house is to keep the multitude of nieces, nephews and grandkids away from my beloved PC & AG's. I don't like action games so I really don't care if console games are ported to the PC or not. Okay, I lied :. I'll occasionally play with the Wii (when no one is looking...nothing worse than the sight of an old man boxing). I don't buy download-only games. Never have, never will........Mike |
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| 16 MAR 2008 at 7:31am | |
Lurker01Private Detective Posts : 411 Joined: 23 JUN 2004 Location: US Status : Offline | I can understand why so many people use consoles, but I think that there has been a price in terms of the quality of games available. The flexibility of a keyboard and mouse is unrivalled by anything used for games in consoles. This results in games becoming much simpler, and often being hard to control on a PC due to being designed for consoles. In some cases I think the game play has also become much simpler to the detriment of the entire game. Dreamfall and Deus Ex 2 would be good examples. "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein |
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| 16 MAR 2008 at 8:48am | |
| Deleted User | I'm glad you mentioned that point, Lurker. I've got 2 pet gripes in this department. The first is that because your disc space is so much smaller when using a console, your space for saving games is severly limited, resulting in the hated "save point" system. It's very important to me to be able to save wherever I want to. Second, is that you can't do any modding when using a console. I've been visiting some of the TES boards lately, and the console guys sit and watch with mouths drooling while the PC guys mod themselves into oblivion! (pun intended) Also, strategy games simply are better on PC. I know the consoles are having a go at them too now, but I cannot imagine them having the same scope for user-made maps that you have on the PC, besides that it simply is so much easier to select your units with a mouse than with a thumb-stick. |
| 16 MAR 2008 at 8:53am | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By MKB (16 MAR 2008 3:26am) Glad to see your'e still keeping the fast-twitch skills up, MKB! I'll confide a dark secret of my own to you. As a kid I used to sneak off to those arcade alleys to feed my deplorable addiction to Mortal Combat. [smiley=devil_smiley_grintail.gif] Now that's one kind of game that a gamepad is good for! |
| 16 MAR 2008 at 2:52pm | |
Lucien21Guild Master  Posts : 4876 Joined: 9 JUL 2003 Location: 0 Status : Offline | Console are encroatching more and more on PC territory. The Wii and PS3 have internet access to allow you to surf, the 360 and PS3 have hard drives allowing installation and game saves. Unfortunatly the PC is being marginalised at the moment in the fight for shelf space in the gaming shops. The multiple configurations of the PC have always been a problem for developers and consumers. Having to either program to the lowest common denominator to ensure it runs on all PC's or go for the high end and risk low sales (Crysis) It is much easier to programme to a standard configuration and market to a captive market (I.e Consoles are ususally only used for games whereas PC's are multifunctional for business and entertainment) I think you will find that the PC will mostly be used for online gaming (MMORPG's hardly seen on consoles at the moment) and online delivery of games (Telltale etc) and of course at the moment the PC rules in user created content. I predict that the next release of the console will all use motion type input inspired by the wii that will mean that mouse will become obsolete. Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount. |
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| 4 MAY 2008 at 4:22pm | |
JKingSchattenjger  Posts : 2349 Joined: 4 MAY 2008 Location: 0 Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Lucien21 (16 MAR 2008 2:52pm) Well, I've not used Opera on the Wii (although I'm sure it's awesome: it's Opera ), but the PS3 Web browser is beyond terrible. Perhaps this will change with time (the PlayStation store underwent a considerable facelift with the last system update, and it went from extremely clunky to merely somewhat clunky), but for Web browsing there's still no beating a real computer with a real mouse running Opera. And as far the hard disks of modern game consoles, that is, I think, a non-issue: their filesystems are generally opaque, so migrating saves is of dubious use. There has always been a divide between computer games and video games, albeit with some overlap: certainly in the last 1980s and early 1990s Apogee and Epic Megagames published several tons of sidescrollers and there were ports of Doom and Wolfenstein 3D and Riven and such to consoles, but the line between what a video game is and what a computer game is is and has always been largely definite, and you can always tell a computer game from a port of a video game, and vice versa (unless it's a very good port ). The line moves, certainly, as the suitability of certain machines to certain kind of games changes, but the adventure game, the computer roleplaying game, the real-time strategy game, and the flight simulator will always remain the domain of the computer, I think. I think an argument can be made that the quality of games on computer in the last ten and or twelve years has suffered, generally speaking, but by the same token the computer has become a less attractive platform for publishers due to the laughable ease by which one can pirate a game if one is so inclined. This, though, doesn't mean there aren't any games; you just have to look a little harder. You can't kill someone in a studio. |
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| 5 MAY 2008 at 5:59pm | |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By JKing (4 MAY 2008 4:22pm) The sad thing about this is, that it is somewhat of a vicious cycle; the more people pirate, the more expensive games become, the more people feel inclined to pirate, because of prices that are hard for them to attain, the more... Anyway, I do agree with you that although there has been a lot of porting going on especially lately, most games still seem to retain the niche flavour of their original platform. One has only to look at kiddies games to see this featuring very strongly. Both my kiddies far prefer the PC over their PS2. The Ps2 games seem to be mostly repetitive platformers, while on the PC they can play anything from educational software to casual sims, to RTS to young people's /kid's AG's, and if they really want to, it's as easy as pie to plug in the controller for a bit of platforming a la Spiderman or Tarzan. Even though my son has Pirates of The Caribbean, Spiderman and Tarzan on both platforms, he almost seems to prefer playing them on the PC, maybe because it is easier for him to just switch the PC on, load game in tray, click on icon, and voila! |
| 6 MAY 2008 at 12:59am | |
CarolineJA+ Overseer  Posts : 16540 Joined: 28 JAN 2007 Location: AU Status : Offline | My children have Nintendo, PS2 and Wii and I have tried all three and hate them. Give me my pc and my comfy chair and a darkened room anytime. |
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| 6 MAY 2008 at 2:01pm | |
JKingSchattenjgerPosts : 2349 Joined: 4 MAY 2008 Location: 0 Status : Offline | Having no children of my own I can't really comment on your experiences all that much, but certainly I remember preferring computer games as a child both young and old, and my friend's son seems to prefer computer games also---but I've only seen him play games a handful of times. Perhaps it has something to do with interface? Perhaps a mouse and keyboard is more intuitive than a controller and children respond more readily to something which gives immediate feedback. I think, though, that Traveler is absolutely right that the variety of genres one can find in computer gaming, especially for young children, has a lot to do with it. Certainly I liked games such as "Prince of Persia" when I was five or six, but I also greatly enjoyed "Where in Time is Carmen Sandiego?" and "The Secret of Monkey Island". Most console games, though, are engineered for pumping adrenaline. You can't kill someone in a studio. |
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| 12 MAY 2008 at 7:52pm | |
Steve VSorcerer ApprenticePosts : 265 Joined: 16 MAR 2008 Status : Online | My only experience of console gaming revolves around playing two quite different games - Indigo Prophecy (Fahrenheit) and Grand Theft Auto Liberty City on my girlfriend's PS2. Indigo Prophecy is almost unplayable, the weird symbols at the top of the screen are supposed to tell you what your options are, but by the time you have fathomed out what the hell they mean it's game over. I found myself just mashing random button combinations to see which was the right one in a given situation.My main surprise was how utterly,utterly terrible the graphics were compared to the PC version, having never before played a game on both platforms I didn't realise what console players have to put up with in this regard. GTA Liberty City on the other hand is just fantastic on the PS2, an absolute breeze to play with excellent intuitive controls that allow you to handle the action really well. That is down to the controller though, I imagine it would be an absolute nightmare to play with mouse and keyboard controls unless you were prepared to stick at it for a long time and that in a nutshell kind of sums up this whole argument - some games work great on consoles, others suck and vice versa but the easy money is in console games so there are always going to be more of them than PC ones. |
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| 1 JUN 2008 at 10:13pm | |
ArkadiaPrivate Detective Posts : 558 Joined: 1 JUN 2008 Status : Online | I'm a born PC-gamer - from age 5 I was addicted to PC gaming. Adventure games were my first love... and you never forget your first love. I've spent countless hours at my computer, playing countless adventure games. However, these days I find myself enjoying the play style of console games more. By play style, I mean the relaxed atmosphere of lying on my couch, in front of my big TV and simply being able to press a button, pop a disc in and immediately begin to play whatever game in question. I don't know about everyone else, but my computer houses most of my life, and as such, despite it being pretty well advanced for a computer, booting up my computer is a devastatingly slow process, installing things gets annoying pretty fast, as does finding out that your computer meets all the system requirements but still refusing to run. Consoles are simple and comfortable, idealistic for gaming, in my opinion. I do believe peoples feelings on this likely largely rely on their organization - do you keep your console hooked up to your TV at all times? Is the computer always on? How big is your hard drive, do you often have to uninstall things to be able to install another thing? Questions such as that have an impact on how much you'll enjoy the process of gaming. Adventure games on consoles can get quite tedious however - pixel hunts with a controller are just asking for severe wrist pain. I'll certainly always go back to my PC for my usual doses of adventure gaming. Anything else however, I'll pick up on console over PC any day, for above stated reason of simplicity. |
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| 16 NOV 2009 at 11:10pm | |
HalcyonSchattenjger Posts : 1652 Joined: 17 NOV 2006 Status : Offline | My first real gaming system was Atari 2600 (I still have it--a few actually--and over 100 games). I moved up from there through Nintendo, etc. Then I bought Myst around 1996 and it blew me away. The TV was not good enough anymore. As computers and games progressed, I stuck with it, often playing racing games and others using a PS and PS2 controller on my PC, which I still do today for a few games. Now that TV are so much better, I'll go back to consoles when I get the need or "that special" game comes around. In the meantime, I love my PC and take care of it. _________________ |
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| 17 NOV 2009 at 4:07am | |
AnnacatIntergalactic Janitor Posts : 97 Joined: 23 JAN 2005 Status : Offline | My preference for gaming is definitely the PC. This has less to do with any merit inherent to the PC, than to do with the greater versatility of the machine. I don't solely use my computer for gaming-- I use it extensively for e-mail/internet and writing, and sometimes listening to music or watching videos. Gaming is only a small fraction of how I use my PC. If I invested in a console, for all practical purposes it would be used solely for gaming. I realize there are some other applications possible for consoles, but none that I would actually use that I wouldn't already be able to do on the PC I would need in addition. When you factor in not all games being available for every type of console... it just isn't worth buying for me, given my particular lifestyle and entertainment choices. I do worry that PC games seem to be on the way out. For example, at my local EB, they've greatly reduced the selection, and have probably about nine or ten PC titles available at any given time. They don't have every PC game that exists, but it seems typical of a widespread dearth. I'm inclined to think that independent developers may be the future of PC gaming. With a lower overhead, they have more ability to be flexible in their production, and less pressure to sell massive numbers of units. And there's a lot of talent in the indie scene, at least in adventure games, which is what I'm most familiar with. Many of my favourite games in the last few years have been from indie teams. I don't think PC games are dead or dying. But I do think the gaming world is skewing toward consoles much more than I would personally prefer. |
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| 17 NOV 2009 at 10:43pm | |
HalcyonSchattenjgerPosts : 1652 Joined: 17 NOV 2006 Status : Offline | I think gaming is heading toward where music has gone -- compressed, downloadable, a lot offered in chapters or series. My guess is that these would be downloadable via handheld and able to transfer to a variety of formats--consoles, PC, phone, book reader, TV. _________________ |
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| 3 DEC 2009 at 10:04pm | |
SpiritogreIntergalactic Janitor Posts : 81 Joined: 30 SEP 2008 Location: DE Status : Offline | This might be correct for casuals or okay for a short game during the break. I think ordinary gamers want ordinary big budget titles. Also I believe that consoles will become more and more a PC and make themselves unneccessary and replacable - by some kind of PC, just like homecomputers did. My Blog: http://rpcg.blogspot.com |
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| 13 DEC 2009 at 5:13pm | |
HalcyonSchattenjgerPosts : 1652 Joined: 17 NOV 2006 Status : Offline | Consoles are almost PCs now, with huge hard drives, downloadables, online gaming (a BIG advantage) and new computer monitors that you can play on. Might as well call them standalone gaming PCs. Waaaaay back when (in the 1980s) I bought a DecMate computer because I was a writer and that computer by Digitial was a standalone word processor. It was expensive (the daisy wheel printer alone cost $1,200!!). I thought I was so smart back then, using a specialized machine. But I was missing out the entire evolution and versatility of the PC to handle advanced word processing and everything else. I quickly, and have since, caught up _________________ |
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| 13 DEC 2009 at 8:37pm | |
| Deleted User | If that's the case could you please do me a big favor and recommend a decent speech recognition program? The one that comes with Vista is basically crap. |
| 21 DEC 2009 at 4:46pm | |
StilerJourneyman  Posts : 1462 Joined: 27 SEP 2004 Location: US, TN Status : Offline | I started gaming with consoles, the Atari and NES were my first followed by the Genesis. Then in the early 90's with school we'd be allowed to play games on the computer like Oregon trail/Carmen Sandiego, etc. This led to me eventually begging my parents for a pc and getting my first around 92 (I was 9yrs old). Pretty much growing up I loved both (and the arcades, but those have all but died off here in the states back in the late 90's). Each had their own advantages. When my friends came over the console was always enjoyable for co op playing (fighting games, etc) and when we'd go over each others houses it was just easy to snag it up into a bag and take it with me. However the pc felt more "personal" to me when I'd play the games and this really brought me into the stories more, especailyl with adventure games. IT just wouldn't have felt the same playing say, Sanitarium on a console vs the computer. In this day and age I still play both on a regular basis, have a ps3 and 360 (wii doesn't interest me as it's generally full of shovel ware and not many games I'd play outside of Zelda). I can and do enjoy games on both sides of the fence and I think both markets are viable. My problem is not fundamentally a console or pc thing rather it's moreso got to do with the take over of the gaming "business" from a more creative/artist era that I felt it was to a more "business/corprate" thing that it has become more and more of today as the market has grown so large. You have more and more gaming developers snagged up by bigger studios with deep pockets and then you have the creative team beign directed on waht to do by marketing people, rather then letting them do what they should do. This leads to many of the banes that pc fans experience, such as a console focus (since it sells more). Then you have shotty ports, lack of basic control options for pc version (apparent in many ports, even in the menu screen where you can't use a freaking mouse). I just wish that more companies would take the time to respect both markets and offer them what the customers should expect along with letting their developers do what they do and run with the ball bit more. |
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