| 28 NOV 2007 at 8:26pm |
shadow9d9Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 295
Joined: 17 JUN 2006
Status : Offline | "Then I expect an unbiased review written well and supported with fact."
You don't get that at adventure sites either.. I can list for you all of the games that have gotten GLOWING reviews at adventure sites that have absolutely infuriated me with their glaring and completely obvious problems that are NEVER mentioned on adventure sites. More often than not adventure sites refuse to be critical of all but the worst games. It is nice to get brought down to earth sometimes.
You don't have to agree with him though and I don't thik anyone is advocating that you must.
Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset!
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| 28 NOV 2007 at 9:07pm |
KarstenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 347
Joined: 23 SEP 2006
Location: DK
Status : Offline | This game is so popular that it did spawn a new adventure gaming subforum over at the rpgcodex.
Here's the thread about Culpa Innata.
http://rpgcodex.net/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=21421
Longshank's post in this thread is pretty good, I think. It is well thought out criticism of the game with good constructive advice to the developers on how to make the next one even better. He does bring up some very good points I think, especially that he feels more like an observer than as as investigator finding out who did the crime.
Marek's point in this blog
http://adventuregamers.com/blogitem.php?id=18
over at adventuregamers should really be considered, too, I think.
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| 28 NOV 2007 at 9:08pm |
antlerIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 51
Joined: 28 NOV 2007
Status : Online | Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (28 NOV 2007 8:23pm)
Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (28 NOV 2007 7:47pm)
.
However, just because you don't want to read it or like what the guy says is not reason enough to dismiss it. If you want to pretend that most adventure games are "A+" material, you are free to remain ignorant by just going after everyone who gives it low scores... however, it seems silly to remain ignorant on all different views. Read it, say you don't agree, and move on, but don't claim his opinion isn't just as valid as the adventure game sites.
The claim that his opinion is not valid stems from the tenor it which it was written. Compare this review with the one in Gamespot. Gamespot offered criticism balanced by reporting what was good and what was bad about the game. They did not give it an A+ But as least led you to believe there was some value in it. The gamespot review is how a review should be written. In that you have examples of what is good and what is bad, the reviewer has credibility.
As for being ignorant about going after everyone who gives it low scores is not even an accurate statement. This is one review. It is not all reviews. There are about a dozen out there and of the others I read they are at least objective. One of the highly favorable reviews on JA points out some flaws. I am just saying this guy's review can easily be dismissed as a clearly biased rant poorly written.
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| 28 NOV 2007 at 9:35pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (28 NOV 2007 8:23pm)
Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (28 NOV 2007 7:47pm)
.
Never heard of Dan Adams (assuming he's not Daniel Adams the writer / filmmaker).
Moreover, I've never read anything he's written in the past, can't find any info about his qualifications as a game reviewer or as a professional writer in general, and thought the quality of writing in this review was quite poor.
So again, why should I or anyone else care what he thinks about this or any other game?
Cheers, Terry
Because he writes for a major site. IGN is one of the big three and are correct in their reviews a majority of the time... I do recognize they are often harsh on adventure games.. just like I recognize that the adventure game websites are way too biased FOR adventure games, often ignoring key problems just because they are used to them or refuse to let it bother them...
I check gamespy/gamespot for reviews of non adventure games and read 6 or so adventure game sites for adventure games. Even doing so, I search in hope of an actual critical review of adventure games, which often I do not find. At least with gamespy/gamespot, for a majority of reviews they are correct...
The guy pointed out pace problems and lack of puzzles as well.
I am playing the game right now amid many other things so I am not far enough in to comment.
However, just because you don't want to read it or like what the guy says is not reason enough to dismiss it. If you want to pretend that most adventure games are "A+" material, you are free to remain ignorant by just going after everyone who gives it low scores... however, it seems silly to remain ignorant on all different views. Read it, say you don't agree, and move on, but don't claim his opinion isn't just as valid as the adventure game sites.
I've read some very poorly written reviews on IGN as well as all the other big game sites and this one was particularly bad.
Poor writing aside, Dan Adam's whole approach, his attitude, his tone was little more than an angry rant and I don't care if he also made a couple of valid points. The majority of his review was based on a series of ridiculous complaints about the lack of "realism" in the game world, story, plot and characters.
On the flipside, I agree wholeheartedly that genre-specific sites frequently heap copious amounts of glowing praise on genuinely mediocre games. However, those reviews also tend to be very specific, substantial and detailed with direct comparisons to similar titles. Even then, I always try to read a little about each reviewer and if possible, discuss the material with them on forums like this.
For instance, when Gamespot still had by far the biggest and best PC game forum community around, we members often chatted with the editors and writers. On The old Adrenaline Vault message boards, we knew all the regular contributors very well. Same goes for the original Cnet Gamecenter forums before they merged with ZDnet.
So for a third time, who the hell is Dan Adams and why should we care what he thinks about Culpa Innata or any other AG?
Cheers, Terry
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| 28 NOV 2007 at 10:41pm |
KarstenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 347
Joined: 23 SEP 2006
Location: DK
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (28 NOV 2007 9:35pm)
.
/snip
So for a third time, who the hell is Dan Adams and why should we care what he thinks about Culpa Innata or any other AG?
Cheers, Terry
Sorry for snipping your post like this, Terry, but I just found this guy's blog over at IGN.
There are some pictures of him shooting rifles and such guns.
http://blogs.ign.com/Dan-IGN/p1
If you look at the 'an army of Dan' entry youu will probably notice a man with glasses and baseball cap.
This apparently is Dan Adams. And he seems a bit youngish to me. Maybe in his early 20's or so. Of course he could have played the old Lucas Art and Sierra games as well as The Longest Journey when he was younger. But since the review does not mention either Monkey Island games or TLJ, I doubt it.
He does seem to raise some valid questions about both the gameplay and the problems in the game, though. If, as he says, Phoenix, the main character are very naive and such, it doesn't seem to be that sort of behaviour, you'd want a detective to portray in a game or in irl, imo. Maybe the story is both about Phoenix's personal journey to stop being naive while she investigates who did the crime? If Phoenix indeed blabbers about the case to everyone, then that seems a problem too, especially since the case apparently is supposed to be confidential.
He does seems to acknowledge that "The conversations can lead players down different paths and act as puzzles themselves. Going down the right path quickly will get you to the conclusion you want." He just starts off with the criticizism of the game, and this simply isn't very well done in a review. He could use an editor who had asked him to rewrite it again, this time using a little trick I use when I grade my students's essays. Always start out with the positive, then add some criticism and maybe tell students what they could do better in the future, lastly you end on a positive note. This way students (and developers) feel encouraged to do better next time. The review itself isn't that bad, I think, as it does bring up problems & flaws in the game. Based on the review and what I've read here and on other sites such as adventuregamers and the codex, I'd probably give the game around a 6.5-7 (maybe 7.5). But I'm a very mean harsh old teacher, too - that demands something - both from my students as well as my game developers.
/Karsten
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| 28 NOV 2007 at 11:17pm |
shadow9d9Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 295
Joined: 17 JUN 2006
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Karsten (28 NOV 2007 10:41pm)
Originally Posted By Terry Penrod (28 NOV 2007 9:35pm)
.
/snip
So for a third time, who the hell is Dan Adams and why should we care what he thinks about Culpa Innata or any other AG?
Cheers, Terry
Sorry for snipping your post like this, Terry, but I just found this guy's blog over at IGN.
There are some pictures of him shooting rifles and such guns.
http://blogs.ign.com/Dan-IGN/p1
If you look at the 'an army of Dan' entry youu will probably notice a man with glasses and baseball cap.
This apparently is Dan Adams. And he seems a bit youngish to me. Maybe in his early 20's or so. Of course he could have played the old Lucas Art and Sierra games as well as The Longest Journey when he was younger. But since the review does not mention either Monkey Island games or TLJ, I doubt it.
He does seem to raise some valid questions about both the gameplay and the problems in the game, though. If, as he says, Phoenix, the main character are very naive and such, it doesn't seem to be that sort of behaviour, you'd want a detective to portray in a game or in irl, imo. Maybe the story is both about Phoenix's personal journey to stop being naive while she investigates who did the crime? If Phoenix indeed blabbers about the case to everyone, then that seems a problem too, especially since the case apparently is supposed to be confidential.
He does seems to acknowledge that "The conversations can lead players down different paths and act as puzzles themselves. Going down the right path quickly will get you to the conclusion you want." He just starts off with the criticizism of the game, and this simply isn't very well done in a review. He could use an editor who had asked him to rewrite it again, this time using a little trick I use when I grade my students's essays. Always start out with the positive, then add some criticism and maybe tell students what they could do better in the future, lastly you end on a positive note. This way students (and developers) feel encouraged to do better next time. The review itself isn't that bad, I think, as it does bring up problems & flaws in the game. Based on the review and what I've read here and on other sites such as adventuregamers and the codex, I'd probably give the game around a 6.5-7 (maybe 7.5). But I'm a very mean harsh old teacher, too - that demands something - both from my students as well as my game developers.
/Karsten
Eh, don't waste your time... Terry doesn't like anyone or anything to criticize something he personally likes.. and if he sees such, he just goes into turtle mode... go after the person, go after the phrases they use... anything but actually have to consider what was said.
The guy made some good points... therefore it doesn't matter who he is.. if the points make sense, the review is worth something... even if only one point was added that other sites overlook, it is worth something.
Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset!
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| 28 NOV 2007 at 11:35pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (28 NOV 2007 11:17pm)
Eh, don't waste your time... Terry doesn't like anyone or anything to criticize something he personally likes.. and if he sees such, he just goes into turtle mode... go after the person, go after the phrases they use... anything but actually have to consider what was said.
The guy made some good points... therefore it doesn't matter who he is.. if the points make sense, the review is worth something... even if only one point was added that other sites overlook, it is worth something.
Whatever shadow9d9...
Karsten, thanks for the link and your comments, which were constructive, informative and valid - including the perfectly legitimate criticisms you made about Dan Adams' poorly written, attitude-riddled review of Culpa Innata.
Like yourself, I have no idea what Dan's qualifications are as a writer or as a game reviewer. His blog profile only lists name, age and occupation (32, hostage negotiator). What I do know is that his piece would have been rejected by any professional editor, teacher or client I've ever worked with - even if his entire take on the game had been reversed 180 degrees.
Cheers, Terry
P.S.
If you read the main intro text on the home page of the official Culpa Innata web site linked below, you will see that Phoenix Wallis is described as young and naive, which accounts for her rookie mistakes.
http://www.culpainnata.com/ci_home.html
If you read further, you will also note that the game's creators spent a lot of time and care fleshing out the game world - much moreso than most AG developers ever do.
.
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| 29 NOV 2007 at 12:04am |
shadow9d9Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 295
Joined: 17 JUN 2006
Status : Offline | No one needs qualifications to have an opinion... some may write it worse than others, but all opinions are valid if they make sense.
Keep fighting the person though instead of the points made... typical.
Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset!
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| 29 NOV 2007 at 12:23am |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (29 NOV 2007 12:04am)
No one needs qualifications to have an opinion... some may write it worse than others, but all opinions are valid if they make sense.
Keep fighting the person though instead of the points made... typical.
I have no idea what you're blabbering on about shadow9d9.
I've offered no specific observations or comments about Culpa Innata because I'm still playing the game and forming an initial opinion of it. All I pointed out so far is how lame Dan Adams' major (and very long-winded) complaints were concerning lack of "realism", etc. I'll also add that his outright trashing of the overall art direction, design and voice acting is waaaay off base - and as mentioned already, his writing is amateurish at best.
What of course is so telling about your numerous insipid personal comments to and about me is that you automatically assumed I liked the game and was defending it, which is patently untrue. I have offered only criticism of Dan Adams' overall attitude and tone while questioning his qualifications as a PROFESSIONAL reviewer for a major game site.
Cheers, Terry
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| 29 NOV 2007 at 4:26am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (29 NOV 2007 12:04am)
No one needs qualifications to have an opinion... some may write it worse than others, but all opinions are valid if they make sense.
Keep fighting the person though instead of the points made... typical.
So what's the deal shadow9d9- are you hankering for a fight? Unless unavoidable, best to stay fixed on the issue rather than the person.
Terry: re: Dan Adams
I think we do have to have some concern for what these types of reviewers (ie. those on reasonably busy sites) say because, like it or not, they do influence some people's decisions to buy the games and even if the potential buyers are not the more knowledgeable AG players, it can mean that some that might get into the genre are turned away. Probably not that many, but these indie games and the genre need all the support they and it can get.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 29 NOV 2007 at 5:55am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Probably not that many, but these indie games and the genre need all the support they and it can get.
I agree, but at the same time an overly positive review can be just as damaging. Especially if a game contains obvious or significant flaws. Not talking about Culpa Innata or Aya's review. I haven't played the game, nor read Aya's review. However, there have been some pretty bad indie games that got some pretty high marks. Some on JA, some on GB, some on AG, and some in Adventure Lantern.
I think if an indie game with significant flaws gets a really high grade and people buy it based on that and get burned, then they will never buy ANY other indie game after that no matter how good the reviews are - even if it really is good and deserving of the high grade.
Once bitten, twice shy... :-/
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| 29 NOV 2007 at 12:48pm |
challis3Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 84
Joined: 13 DEC 2004
Status : Online | Put me at the top of the list of people getting frustrated when adventure game haters are assigned to review an adventure game- which is the norm at the non adventure gaming sites. However, having just finished playing the game, I agree with some of his points.
1. If Phoenix is such a naive rookie, why is she a SENOIR peace officer and assigned such an important case? She does run her mouth off about confidential matters and seems obsessed with the sex life of everyone she questions.
2. I did think many of the conversation tree options were odd- often there was not one question to choose that made any logical sense to me.
3. Recapping my day to my friend- a waste of time.
4. My biggest problem with the game- CRASHES.
What I liked:
1. Plot- loved the whole world they created.
2. Had no problem with the graphics.
3. Voice acting
4. Length, number of characters to interact with, number of scenes to visit
Overall I did enjoy the game, what I disliked was fairly minor- except for the crashing thing!!!
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| 29 NOV 2007 at 2:36pm |
shadow9d9Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 295
Joined: 17 JUN 2006
Status : Offline | http://www.gamespot.com/pc/adventure/culpainnata/review.html?mode=gsreview
7.5 and a fairly positive review for a main site. Of course, Terry might need to get the guy's "qualifications" before he takes it seriously(sorry, couldn't resist : )).
I wish the game let you speed up walking kinda like in TLJ when they allowed you to jump across the screen by pressing escape. I also wish the game allowed you to skip lines of dialogue without the entire sequence. That way for impatient gamers, they could read the subtitles and get through the sequence faster. I also wish you could access inventory without going to a separate screen and I wish that you didn't have to keep doing this with every item you want to try or if you misclick. The low res and graphics are soso.. but I play spiderwebsoftware games so I'll survive.
Those are just small criticisms from playing the game for an hour or so. I just feel like adventure site reviews should point out these small but obvious flaws. Many just ignore them and then I end up with an irritating game because the reviewer was so busy gushing , they ignored issues.
Main sites are often harsh, but can point out important flaws. Just ignore the nonsense parts of the reviews. Not hard.
Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset!
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| 29 NOV 2007 at 4:38pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (29 NOV 2007 2:36pm)
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/adventure/culpainnata/review.html?mode=gsreview
7.5 and a fairly positive review for a main site. Of course, Terry might need to get the guy's "qualifications" before he takes it seriously(sorry, couldn't resist : )).
I wish the game let you speed up walking kinda like in TLJ when they allowed you to jump across the screen by pressing escape. I also wish the game allowed you to skip lines of dialogue without the entire sequence. That way for impatient gamers, they could read the subtitles and get through the sequence faster. I also wish you could access inventory without going to a separate screen and I wish that you didn't have to keep doing this with every item you want to try or if you misclick. The low res and graphics are soso.. but I play spiderwebsoftware games so I'll survive.
Those are just small criticisms from playing the game for an hour or so. I just feel like adventure site reviews should point out these small but obvious flaws. Many just ignore them and then I end up with an irritating game because the reviewer was so busy gushing , they ignored issues.
Main sites are often harsh, but can point out important flaws. Just ignore the nonsense parts of the reviews. Not hard.
Again S9d9, I totally agree that reviewers on genre-specific sites frequently heap copious amounts of praise on genuinely mediocre games while failing to point out obvious flaws and shortcomings. That is a deservice to consumers.
As far as Brett Todd is concerned, he's written dozens of full reviews for Gamespot, Games Domain, Sharky Games and other sites. I'm already very familair with his work as are many other game fans. He's a pretty good writer but he tends to be VERY critical, to the point of recieving numerous heated responses from readers about a variety of titles in a full range of genres he's reviewed harshly. Sometimes I agree with him, sometimes I do not.
Regarding his take on Culpa Innata, it seems reasonably balanced and far more accurate than what Dan Adams wrote. More to the point, it was not an angry, childish rant disguised as a professional review.
Lastly, I also agree that the game is far from perfect and does NOT deserve a super high score. But it also doesn't deserve a horrible 4.0 rating on a site like IGN that hands out 9.0's to big-budget action games like they were candy.
Like yourself, I'm still playing through the game for the first time and still forming an initial opinion. But so far, it appears to be around a 7.0 and if the story keeps getting better, I may revise that to a respectable 7.5.
Cheers, Terry
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| 30 NOV 2007 at 5:57am |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | one thing i don't seem to understand reading this thread is the usage (abuse) of the word "flaw"... a feature not implemented to one's liking does not constitute a flaw... eg an inventory on a separate screen is not a flaw, it's just smth somebody doesn't like or would rather have different... or not being able to esc thru screen is smth that one may find tedius, when others are fine with running (esp those who have played simon :)... not meeting a personal preference does not a flaw make
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 30 NOV 2007 at 8:04am |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
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Status : Offline | http://www.joystiq.com/2007/11/30/rumor-gamespots-editorial-director-fired-over-kane-and-lynch-rev/
Have Gamespot fired someone over pressure from a publisher re: Bad Review?
If so maybe Culpa's publisher should contact IGN
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 30 NOV 2007 at 9:28am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | MOST interesting indeed Lucien! If so, all these years of Randy's rants against the big mainstream game sites have been proven correct.
While we might be drifting off-topic, it is still a great thread in regards to reviews.
Case in point - How can a game get a 9.5 review (GameSpot) when it is virtually "unplayable" by normal systems (aka, Crysis). Even if you had a maxed out system, it still wouldn't be enough to run this game at it's full potential and it would run at a lagging framerate. A lot of what I hear on that game is how great it will be when the technology eventually catches up and is available to run it at it's full potential. What the heck?!?
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| 30 NOV 2007 at 2:29pm |
shadow9d9Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 295
Joined: 17 JUN 2006
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Aya (30 NOV 2007 5:57am)
one thing i don't seem to understand reading this thread is the usage (abuse) of the word "flaw"... a feature not implemented to one's liking does not constitute a flaw... eg an inventory on a separate screen is not a flaw, it's just smth somebody doesn't like or would rather have different... or not being able to esc thru screen is smth that one may find tedius, when others are fine with running (esp those who have played simon :)... not meeting a personal preference does not a flaw make
The main problem in reviews at adventure sites is that small annoyances are never brought to attention... small annoyances add up to something bigger than a small annoyance that can severely hamper one's gaming experience. The ones I points out are the smallest of small annoyances.
Big ones often missed and ignored are pixel hunts and completely obtuse and nonsensical puzzle solutions.
It is the job of reviews to point out potential problems for the viewers imo.
And yes, if my Core 2 Geforce 8800 computer doesn't instantly go to an inventory screen and back.. I consider it a game flaw to require a transition back and forth every single time an item is attempted to be used and every time you misclick after getting an item. Being forced to watch every dialogue without a chance to move things along is definitely a flaw considering the option has been available in games for 15 years.
When games make things difficult on the user after 15 years of user friendly improvements, it is most definitely a flaw. Regression shouldn't be promoted by ignoring the fact.
All imo. I have to read the 6 adventure game review sites and keep looking for other sources because the current sources are not critical enough. Imo we need more ign and gamespot reviews to counter the glowing, ignore all potential problems and refuse to criticize way the adventure sites operate.
Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset!
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| 30 NOV 2007 at 2:31pm |
shadow9d9Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 295
Joined: 17 JUN 2006
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ivinia (30 NOV 2007 9:27am)
MOST interesting indeed Lucien! If so, all these years of Randy's rants against the big mainstream game sites have been proven correct.
While we might be drifting off-topic, it is still a great thread in regards to reviews.
Case in point - How can a game get a 9.5 review (GameSpot) when it is virtually "unplayable" by normal systems (aka, Crysis). Even if you had a maxed out system, it still wouldn't be enough to run this game at it's full potential and it would run at a lagging framerate. A lot of what I hear on that game is how great it will be when the technology eventually catches up and is available to run it at it's full potential. What the heck?!?
Major review sites give favorable reviews to hyped games more often than not.. unfortunately adventure game sites do the same, just towards the more hyped adventure games. These reviews refuse to be critical. Only when a game is a complete mess(Hellgate London), do they choose to critique it.
Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset!
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| 30 NOV 2007 at 3:07pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (30 NOV 2007 2:28pm)
The main problem in reviews at adventure sites is that small annoyances are never brought to attention... small annoyances add up to something bigger than a small annoyance that can severely hamper one's gaming experience. The ones I points out are the smallest of small annoyances.
Big ones often missed and ignored are pixel hunts and completely obtuse and nonsensical puzzle solutions.
It is the job of reviews to point out potential problems for the viewers imo.
And yes, if my Core 2 Geforce 8800 computer doesn't instantly go to an inventory screen and back.. I consider it a game flaw to require a transition back and forth every single time an item is attempted to be used and every time you misclick after getting an item. Being forced to watch every dialogue without a chance to move things along is definitely a flaw considering the option has been available in games for 15 years.
When games make things difficult on the user after 15 years of user friendly improvements, it is most definitely a flaw. Regression shouldn't be promoted by ignoring the fact.
All imo. I have to read the 6 adventure game review sites and keep looking for other sources because the current sources are not critical enough. Imo we need more ign and gamespot reviews to counter the glowing, ignore all potential problems and refuse to criticize way the adventure sites operate.
so what you are saying more or less is that the fact that you don't like going back and forth a screen for inventory constitutes a flaw... and you suggest the inventory to be at the bottom of the screen (for example)... but what about the ppl that don't like inv at the bottom of the screen? wouldn't that immediately make it a flaw again? so where does the inventory go? wherever it goes, somebody will prefer it elsewhere, so, according to your logic, every game is and will be flawed in every aspect no matter what, since there will always be somebody who would prefer smth a different way, ie, in your definition, find smth flawed... unless of course you are among the ppl that believe that their preference is the right way to go, in which case, well, i rest my case
and i know it's fashionable to bitch about "oh adventure gaming sites oh how they are not critical enough" but when titles like tunguska receive a nice C and overhyped crap like paradise a yummy D, not only nobody talks about objectivity, but tries to find out ways to bitch about how "oh so overly and unfairly critical" the reviews were... in other words: "if my opinion does not meet the reviewer's it means that the reviewer is not enough/overly critical"
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 30 NOV 2007 at 3:30pm |
shadow9d9Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 295
Joined: 17 JUN 2006
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Aya (30 NOV 2007 3:06pm)
[quote author=shadow9d9 link=1195831676/30#43 date=1196432919
Big ones often missed and ignored are pixel hunts and completely obtuse and nonsensical puzzle solutions.
It is the job of reviews to point out potential problems for the viewers imo.
And yes, if my Core 2 Geforce 8800 computer doesn't instantly go to an inventory screen and back.. I consider it a game flaw to require a transition back and forth every single time an item is attempted to be used and every time you misclick after getting an item. Being forced to watch every dialogue without a chance to move things along is definitely a flaw considering the option has been available in games for 15 years.
When games make things difficult on the user after 15 years of user friendly improvements, it is most definitely a flaw. Regression shouldn't be promoted by ignoring the fact.
All imo. I have to read the 6 adventure game review sites and keep looking for other sources because the current sources are not critical enough. Imo we need more ign and gamespot reviews to counter the glowing, ignore all potential problems and refuse to criticize way the adventure sites operate.
so what you are saying more or less is that the fact that you don't like going back and forth a screen for inventory constitutes a flaw... and you suggest the inventory to be at the bottom of the screen (for example)... but what about the ppl that don't like inv at the bottom of the screen? wouldn't that immediately make it a flaw again? so where does the inventory go? wherever it goes, somebody will prefer it elsewhere, so, according to your logic, every game is and will be flawed in every aspect no matter what, since there will always be somebody who would prefer smth a different way, ie, in your definition, find smth flawed... unless of course you are among the ppl that believe that their preference is the right way to go, in which case, well, i rest my case
and i know it's fashionable to bitch about "oh adventure gaming sites oh how they are not critical enough" but when titles like tunguska receive a nice C and overhyped crap like paradise a yummy D, not only nobody talks about objectivity, but tries to find out ways to bitch about how "oh so overly and unfairly critical" the reviews were... in other words: "if my opinion does not meet the reviewer's it means that the reviewer is not enough/overly critical"
As I said, it is easy to bash games with critical flaws.. but not so easy to do when a game isn't that bad. It has nothing to do with opinion and everything to do with pointing out problems that people might have. Of course you can't get all of them.. but plenty are obvious.. if you come across a nonsensical puzzles, you report it as such. The problem with adventure sites is that they give passes to too many "minor" issues because they are used to them. Then they are shock, SHOCKED, when the general public isn't interested or gets burned and walks away.
You want to trivialize my points. If you think adventure game reviews are not too glowing on hyped or not critically problematic games, fine. Good for you. I have the right to express that I get burned rather often because of the lack of being critical. All games should have little problems or possible problems mentioned.
At the bottom of each review, little nitpicks found when playing should be listed. Unless a game is perfect, this shouldn't be hard to do. Too many games are rated perfect. Just my opinion.
Why do you think IGN and gamespot rated Culpa lower? Maybe they didn't like having to sit through endless dialogue when they would have much more enjoyed to read faster and skip every line like every other game has allowed for the last 15+ years. Maybe they didn't like having to switch screen over and over because they misclicked an item or wanted to try another item. These aren't exactly secret issues. They just get ignored in adventure reviews and get pointed out elsewhere if you are lucky to find them. They aren't things that are easily ignored. They stick out like a sore thumb.
When you attempt to skip one line of dialogue and the whole scene passes, do you say "cool, that makes sense!"... When you mislick an item on the screen and have to go through screens to try again, do you think "Cool, more loading, awesome interface!"? In Runaway 2, when you have to Spoiler Alertuse the win bottles with the hallway did you think, "wow, a very logical puzzle"? I could point out problems with glowing game reviews til the cows come home. These issues should be pointed out, even if they do not affect the review score.
The repercussions are that SOME people end up getting frustrated with the genre and leaving. "This is what the adventure community thinks is a perfect game? With all these issues never even brought up? Wow, the genre is in dire need of help if this is elevated to greatness status."
Just because adventure game fanatics are used to dealing with quirks and genre staple problems, doesn't mean they should be ignored. They should be highlighted so the developers could improve and so what little fans are left don't get screwed.
IMO.
Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset!
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| 30 NOV 2007 at 5:34pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | shadow, now that i read that last post of yours i wonder if you even bothered to read the ja reviews or if you just saw the grade and went into this rant mode... maybe you should take the time and actually read before talking about what needs to be pointed out
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 30 NOV 2007 at 6:20pm |
shadow9d9Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 295
Joined: 17 JUN 2006
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Aya (30 NOV 2007 5:34pm)
shadow, now that i read that last post of yours i wonder if you even bothered to read the ja reviews or if you just saw the grade and went into this rant mode... maybe you should take the time and actually read before talking about what needs to be pointed out
I read it a while ago, and this is not a criticism of that particular review. Just how reviews are conducted in general here and elsewhere.
If you are referring to the nitpicking, yes you had a section in this particular review... I just feel that the nitpicks generally pointed out are still in the too often glowing mode and acceptance of adventure problems to really point out what needs to be pointed out.
I am not criticizing you Aya or your Culpa review... I just used Culpa as an example since it is part of the topic here and how, although only playing the first hour so far, I could already find little problems that are not mentioned at the adventure site. I then point out that this is often the case because the adventure sites tend to ignore the problems with the genre because they are so enamored with anything remotely good and don't want to criticize what they like.
I just wish these little things were pointed out in reviews more. GS and IGN were able to easily pick some of the problems out... so I'm not crazy here.
Disclaimer:&&&&Please do not take my opinions personally. I have strong opinions that may differ harshly with other popular opinions. I also have a rather direct way of expressing them. Keep this in mind when reading and do not get upset!
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| 30 NOV 2007 at 6:25pm |
kuddlesPrivate Detective
Posts : 702
Joined: 22 OCT 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By shadow9d9 (30 NOV 2007 6:20pm)
I read it a while ago, and this is not a criticism of that particular review. Just how reviews are conducted in general here and elsewhere.
So you're essentially admitting that you're trolling. Fantastic.
[size=10][b]Games:[/b] Europa Universalis III&&[b]Music:[/b] [i]Awoo[/i] - Hidden Cameras&&[b]Series:[/b] Dexter (S1)&&[b]Movies:[/b] The Prestige (8/10) Little Miss Sunshine (5/10)&&[/size]
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