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| 7 JUN 2007 at 7:56pm |
KarstenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 347
Joined: 23 SEP 2006
Location: DK
Status : Offline | The Indiana Jones adventure games, maybe?`Some may not call them adventures at all, but I have played the od two of them and they do have the sort of things you're looking for, pulling levers and stuff.
Aura and Aura 2: The Sacred Rings have some of the same stuff, I believe. And maybe some of the Myst games have what you are looking for in a game, too. Schizm and other first person adventures could also fulfill your needs, I think.
And of course, there is the Laura Croft games in which you turn a lever, find a cogwheel, use this on a machine, and then a whole new area opens up for you to explore. If you can get over the actions parts, the jumping and the swinging, then Laura Croft might be worth checking out (You can even download the demo of some of the Laura Croft games, using Steam...)
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| 7 JUN 2007 at 8:02pm |
PengersIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 6
Joined: 7 JUN 2007
Status : Online | This just shows that I am horrible at trying to type what I'm thinking
"you turn a lever, find a cogwheel, use this on a machine, and then a whole new area opens up for you to explore."
That is the exact thing I'm trying to avoid. I need puzzle puzzles, not just a long chain of events.
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| 7 JUN 2007 at 8:37pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
I've found with the more sophisticated, epic RPGs on the PC that the main quests often involve a whole long series of what amount to puzzles. These are of course scattered amongst myriad quests that also involve combat, stealth, diplomacy, etc. There are individual puzzles as well as riddles and mysteries to solve plus numerous items to find throughout the games. Some include a long list of optional side quests as well - but I am talking about the over-riding story and the array of mandatory missions (quests) that define the core campaign.
A good example of an integrated, ongoing non-mandatory puzzle in an RPG is finding all the various totems in Arcanum: Of Steamworks & Magick Obscura by the now defunct Troika studio (founded by the three main members of Interplay's original Fallout team). The puzzle solutions are individually worthless but collectively they can result in important rewards that in turn help make finishing the main quest easier.
In the same title however is a very long, meandering, mandatory quest to find the original home of an ancient, legendary dwarven clan hidden somewhere in the vast game world. It requires discovering several other inobvious areas and collecting information as well as some very specific artifacts. These are all tied directly into the main storyline too and they comprise one giant puzzle that you work on along the way. While exploring, you also uncover a bunch of indirectly related things that are not necessary to "win" the game. However they do enrich the experience and deepen the sense of immersion in a completely mythical world where magic (magick) and technology are often in conflict.
It goes without saying that in addition to alll the above, Arcanum also includes the full spectrum of other gameplay elements we have come to expect from the genre that grew from the first D& tabeltops and MUDs.
The reason I mention this is to provide a specific example of just how much more complex and sweeping some RPGs are than most traditional adventure games. They can span whole continents and entail hundreds of quests, hundreds of NPCs and hundreds of hours of gameplay. The best of them include a great number of true puzzles as well as situations that must be resolved. So they require a great deal of time, effort and patience plus a willingness to test yourself on multiple levels including tactical combat skills, resource management and dealing with ethical dilemmas.
I happen to love good RPGs because they share so many core traits with the best of the adventure genre. But they also incorporate so much more.
As for classic-style AGs that have the same level of diverse complexity, there really are none that compare to the bigger RPGs. However, a few like the Gabriel Knight series offer a degree of sophistication that test even the best minds. Playing intemittently as both Gabe and Grace to eventually solve a mystery adds a lot IMO. Problem is that so few titles have more than one actively playable protagonist and none have full parties of companions you can control.
Another I liked very much was The Journeyman Project 3: Legacy of Time in which the player has a chameleon suit that allows you to assume the role of several characters in three wonderfully different main settings - all in three different far-flung time periods. You then must traverse time and visit two or more locations in a non-linear fashion to solve some of the better puzzles - all of which lead up to the final puzzle at the end.
There is also one 3D action-adventure that comes to mind - Project Eden. While fairly simple in the puzzle department it does have a party of four distinct, playable characters that at times have to work in teams to get through certain areas. Each has a unique specialty and only they can do specific tasks that must be done in tandem with one or more of the others. There is also combat though... so if you hate that kind of gameplay, it's not for you.
Cheers, Terry
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| 7 JUN 2007 at 8:40pm |
auroraIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 58
Joined: 15 MAY 2007
Status : Online | "you turn a lever, find a cogwheel, use this on a machine, and then a whole new area opens up for you to explore."
That is the exact thing I'm trying to avoid. I need puzzle puzzles, not just a long chain of events.
One word: Myst.
Exactly, exactly exactly what you describe.
There's definitely, definitely definitely no logic to humen behaviour.
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| 7 JUN 2007 at 8:53pm |
TaioPrivate Detective
Posts : 557
Joined: 3 FEB 2007
Status : Offline | I need puzzle puzzles, not just a long chain of events
I know what are you talking about. Yes, you can try with Myst, or also with games here in Justadventure.
http://games.justadventure.com/
I liked Agatha Christie: Death on the nile. You can find games like the ones you said there
www.youtube.com/user/Taioo
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| 7 JUN 2007 at 10:26pm |
PengersIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 6
Joined: 7 JUN 2007
Status : Online | Terry, I know exactly what you mean and agree with ya. Never heard of that game but might look it up another time. Its just at the moment, I can use a pure adventure game to balance out the amount of shooters I've been playing lately (Hey, I'm at that age where I gotta take so many tests and fill out so many college apps and what have you that its only natural I'm full of bloodlust )
Now, about Myst... The reason that I never got around to even touching those games was because of the constant bombardment of people talking about how damn difficult it is. I'm the type of person that has used guides in pretty much every adventure game I've played but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I am damn tired of cheating in a game whose whole purpose is for you to think. Am I really going to have a hard time with Myst if I stick to my good ol' logic and thought which has countlessly failed me all these years?
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| 7 JUN 2007 at 10:53pm |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5536
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | Myst was the first adventure game of its kind that I played, and even then I found it to be mostly medium difficulty. Give it a try, it's a good introduction to that style of adventure game. If you enjoy that, definitely play its sequel Riven. Riven is the best of the Myst series, beautiful, and beautifully designed. It is a lot harder than Myst, but it's fair about it. All its puzzles can be solved with logic and careful observation.
Other games worth trying:
Obsidian: It's more surreal than most adventure games, but has some of the most original and best designed puzzles around. An all time favorite of mine.
Rhem: I haven't played this one yet, but it's a favorite among fans of mechanical puzzles. The game is one big mechanical puzzle, actually, consisting of smaller puzzles.
Shivers: This doesn't have the mechanical puzzles of Myst, relying instead on stand alone logic puzzles for the most part, but it does have the first person solitary style play of Myst. Spooky and a lot of fun.
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| 7 JUN 2007 at 10:53pm |
| Deleted User | Maybe after Myst you can play Pyst, have you people ever played that game? :-?
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| 8 JUN 2007 at 2:46pm |
auroraIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 58
Joined: 15 MAY 2007
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Pengers (7 JUN 2007 10:26pm)
Now, about Myst... The reason that I never got around to even touching those games was because of the constant bombardment of people talking about how damn difficult it is. I'm the type of person that has used guides in pretty much every adventure game I've played but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I am damn tired of cheating in a game whose whole purpose is for you to think. Am I really going to have a hard time with Myst if I stick to my good ol' logic and thought which has countlessly failed me all these years?
You're probably using guides all the time because the games you played are filled with illogical, random puzzles.
That doesn't mean I dont love them- some of these games are really very good (such as Syberia).
The puzzles in Myst are on a total different layer- they're leaking from logicness.
Riven is the only game I consider difficult. (out of the five)
I won't waste many words- I totally think you should at least give it a try.
Some people won't enjoy it.
Most people will.
Others, like myself, will have an ever-growing obsession (10 years...)
There's definitely, definitely definitely no logic to humen behaviour.
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| 8 JUN 2007 at 8:14pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Pengers (7 JUN 2007 10:26pm)
Now, about Myst... The reason that I never got around to even touching those games was because of the constant bombardment of people talking about how damn difficult it is. I'm the type of person that has used guides in pretty much every adventure game I've played but ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! I am damn tired of cheating in a game whose whole purpose is for you to think. Am I really going to have a hard time with Myst if I stick to my good ol' logic and thought which has countlessly failed me all these years?
The only way to know for sure is to try it. One nice thing about Myst is that it doesn't have triggers. If you aren't progressing in the game, you know it isn't because you didn't talk to some character enough times.
I'd suggest using hints for it instead of a walkthrough.
http://www.uhs-hints.com/uhsweb/myst.php
One of the hardest things about Myst is figuring out where you are headed though (hard for someone who isn't used to 14 year old snapshot style point-and-click games anyway). The first time I played Myst, I got very lost in the Channelwood Age because I'd click and then not understand exactly where I'd gotten to and how it related to my previous location. For that reason you might try to hunt down RealMyst, the realtime 3D version. RealMyst also has some interesting weather effects.
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| 8 JUN 2007 at 8:35pm |
| Deleted User | Jenny100's right, you will have to try it to know. Some people loved it whle some other hate it!
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| 8 JUN 2007 at 8:43pm |
PengersIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 6
Joined: 7 JUN 2007
Status : Online | Well, turns out I got a friend that can give me the third Myst game and so I think I'll go with that. I'm not into the whole starting in the middle of things but hey, its free right?
Okay, so I have the Myst games on the list, I've had some other recommendations on the list, and of course I appreciate everybody's help. You guys rock. Feel free to post if you know of any other games, I'd appreciate it.
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| 8 JUN 2007 at 8:54pm |
| Deleted User | Luckily you found it!
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| 9 JUN 2007 at 3:14am |
auroraIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 58
Joined: 15 MAY 2007
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Pengers (8 JUN 2007 8:43pm)
Well, turns out I got a friend that can give me the third Myst game and so I think I'll go with that. I'm not into the whole starting in the middle of things but hey, its free right?
Myst 3 (Exile) is a very good game to start at:
1. It is very newbie-friendly. (Pretty much fills you up with all that happened)
2. It is beautiful and user-friendly.
starting with Riven would be a bit of a problem.
Exile is a much better choice.
Still, if you want some background, I'm sure there's no problem finding it on the net (The more you will know, the more satisfaction you'll get.)
The world of "Myst" is pretty much endless, and still growing. So there are really some few basic things you should know, but most of the material is optional, and depends on the willingness of the player to involve himself in this world.
I'm sure you'll enjoy it.
(feel free to P.M. me for questions)
There's definitely, definitely definitely no logic to humen behaviour.
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| 15 JUN 2007 at 7:51pm |
Erwin_BrPrivate Detective
Posts : 455
Joined: 7 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | How about Bad Mojo? It's original, it's got 'puzzle' puzzles (which aren't exactly easy, though), and you get to play a cockroach!
--Erwin
[url=http://justadventure.com/IndependentDevs/BadTiming/index.html][img]http://erbserv.emptyhouse.net/public/images/bt-forumbanner.gif[/img][/url]
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| 15 JUN 2007 at 10:01pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By Erwin_Br (15 JUN 2007 7:50pm)
How about Bad Mojo? It's original, it's got 'puzzle' puzzles (which aren't exactly easy, though), and you get to play a cockroach!
--Erwin
Good suggestion and better still, the original game was updated for more modern systems then re-released not all that long ago as Bad Mojo Redux.
Cheers, Terry
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