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Topic: There is a Silence

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All Forums : [General] : Off Topic Forum > There is a Silence
26 MAY 2007 at 10:37pm

Caroline

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Shadow
The reason some people on the internet (and this forum is no different) get upset with the strangers they talk to is because they retain ownership of their words even after setting them a-sail.

You managed to make of my poem something revolting.  That's all.  It is text.  I'm not angry, just dumbfounded that such a complete reversal of intent could be achieved so easily.  

I'm also just a tad uncertain about the mind that can create such an effect or the motivation behind such an act...... but let's stick to the text.  :


Talking of sticking.... I used the word 'sticky' not as a general Australian slang term - because it isn't, but as a description of how your sex poem felt.

It read like porn and I stopped reading it at line 7 - just when we reached the 'blistering caverns of velvety silk'   what, she has an STD?  I have since read the whole thing just to make sure that I wasn't mistaken.  Yep, definitely sticky.  There's a strong inference of sweat and bodily fluids and gooey over-romanticised emotion.   I also thought the layout rather interesting and would like to know why you set the lines out the way you did.  I actually thought the poem was very effective - if in the wrong context.

How long did it take you to write it and is it one you have written some time ago or just now?

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27 MAY 2007 at 9:51pm

ShadowWalker

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Originally Posted By Caroline (26 MAY 2007 10:36pm)
Shadow
The reason some people on the internet (and this forum is no different) get upset with the strangers they talk to is because they retain ownership of their words even after setting them a-sail.


Hello There!  


That really was not my intent.  I had a girlfriend a long time ago who had that particular mindset.  She almost always attributed my actions to have agendas in themselves, and that my actions were based on manipulations.  That seems to be a problem with many people that deal with me.  They think that I often have an agenda.  In reality I do not.
I go often by the mood or the situation, and do not have an agenda to sharpen a point, stick it to anyone, or undermine others.   I changed the contents and meanings of the poem you wrote merely as a challenge to change the meaning with a few carefully placed words here and there.  Just as a challenge and nothing more.  Just plain fun.  I think others read more into it because they consider that their viewpoints have to be naturally shared by me.  In other words; a self-fullfilling prophecy that in reality could not be further from the truth.

You managed to make of my poem something revolting.  That's all.  It is text.  I'm not angry, just dumbfounded that such a complete reversal of intent could be achieved so easily.


When I came into the United States from Cuba, I was not put into a transitional class like children are put into now.
I had to learn the English language from scratch without any tutors, and I had a considerable command of it in just 6 months. I have found that I have an ability with English, not just the spoken but the written word that enables me to play with it with wonderful ease.

I'm also just a tad uncertain about the mind that can create such an effect or the motivation behind such an act...... but let's stick to the text.  :


No agenda, and an ease with the language.

Talking of sticking.... I used the word 'sticky' not as a general Australian slang term - because it isn't, but as a description of how your sex poem felt.


If that is what you think, you totally misread my meaning.

It read like porn and I stopped reading it at line 7 - just when we reached the 'blistering caverns of velvety silk'   what, she has an STD?  I have since read the whole thing just to make sure that I wasn't mistaken.  Yep, definitely sticky.  There's a strong inference of sweat and bodily fluids and gooey over-romanticised emotion.   I also thought the layout rather interesting and would like to know why you set the lines out the way you did.  I actually thought the poem was very effective - if in the wrong context.


Again, you missinterpreted my meaning and intent.  Yes, the poem is about the coitus act, but if you read towards the end you see that my intention, though apparently not understood is that this is not just about having sex, but about the communion; mental, physical and spiritual of two lonely individuals seeking solace in much more than the union ot their organs.
This was a moment in their lovemaking that showed the actual movement and actions of two people who have surrendered not just their raw based emotions of sex, but their desire to exchange their feelings and share this moment to drive away their loneliness in their sharing of their bodies and the physical proximity of themselves on a physical , mental, and needfull moment to feel close, loved and fullfilled.

hence.......

ardent sighs evolving in rhythm and clarity
    obedient to blossoming desires and needs
          of two minds,
               two hearts,  
                    two souls,
                        patently surrendering their solitude
.


How long did it take you to write it and is it one you have written some time ago or just now?


Half a day. And the day before I posted it.


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27 MAY 2007 at 10:48pm

Caroline

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Shadow

I did notice the two souls bit but it came late in the action, like it was a polite afterthought.   I didn't like it.  In fact if you take it out the poem works just fine.   The first part of the peom is about sex not souls/love/emotion.  And there's nothing wrong with that.  It's heavy with sex, it drips with the sweat of their exertions.  Why mix the message, why throw in the souls bit - as a sop to convention?  

Besides, I don't regard sex as soul sharing.  I think that requires speech.  
  Maybe I've been married too long.  Maybe it's just a girl thing.

'patently' as in obviously....I don't like... have you considered another word which might carry emotion or perhaps even leaving it out.  The final line is too important to have a word that means nothing.  

I do not like 'blistering'... it's ugly and what does it mean?  How about getting rid of damp and blistering and inserting 'enveloping' or 'welcoming'.  

And isn't it a bitch having your poetry criticised?  



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28 MAY 2007 at 7:42am

JJ

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Get a room you two.  Otherwise do it by PM ............ you're giving me the creeps. [smiley=blush.gif]
[url=www.twitter.com/mapocomountain]@MapocoMountain[/url]

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28 MAY 2007 at 12:37pm

Caroline

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Originally Posted By JJ (28 MAY 2007 7:41am)
Get a room you two.  Otherwise do it by PM ............ you're giving me the creeps. [smiley=blush.gif]


No, I'm sorry.  Your entry into the poetry competition has been rejected.  It doesn't rhyme or scan.

Try again.


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28 MAY 2007 at 7:17pm

ShadowWalker

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Originally Posted By Caroline (27 MAY 2007 10:47pm)
Shadow

I did notice the two souls bit but it came late in the action, like it was a polite afterthought.   I didn't like it.  In fact if you take it out the poem works just fine.   The first part of the peom is about sex not souls/love/emotion.  And there's nothing wrong with that.  It's heavy with sex, it drips with the sweat of their exertions.  Why mix the message, why throw in the souls bit - as a sop to convention?  

Besides, I don't regard sex as soul sharing.  I think that requires speech.  
  Maybe I've been married too long.  Maybe it's just a girl thing.

'patently' as in obviously....I don't like... have you considered another word which might carry emotion or perhaps even leaving it out.  The final line is too important to have a word that means nothing.  

I do not like 'blistering'... it's ugly and what does it mean?  How about getting rid of damp and blistering and inserting 'enveloping' or 'welcoming'.  

And isn't it a bitch having your poetry criticised?  



Hello There!  


No.....I thank you for your criticism.....it was correct and right on the nose.
I tried to be too wishy washy and just pissed away the meanings meant by trying to serve too masters!

Romantic love and raunch!

'Blistering' meant '[size=18]HOT', but........if my meaning does not get undestood right away, I definitively have failed in my writing.   The meaning must always be clear and not muddled.

You are a gem Caroline!

Here I rewrote it with just a few change of words and I believe that it is more on track.



[size=14]Twilight desires.............


lines, curves, hollows and orbs,
     glistening in the twilight

covered by sweat of efforts spent,
     brisk movements, pursued by quiverings,
        scored by physical, emotional, spiritual raptures

gossamer wings mantled around taut sinew
     ferociously plunging into dark, damp, scorching caverns of velvety silk

minds different, thoughts merged in unison,
     converging on a single point,
          reaching a crossroads of ephemeral bliss

ardent sighs evolving in rhythm and clarity
    obedient to blossoming desires and needs
          of two minds,
               two hearts,
                    two souls,
                       savagely pounding away their solitude.



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28 MAY 2007 at 7:45pm

Alan Thorn

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Little Roger is a writer. He's a bit behind the times.
His words have no meaning except the meaning he assigns.
Roger is short, he is; and perhaps shorter than he is tall.                    
But Roger is short, no question; though taller than he is small.
Next-Gen Roger, the consumer. Consumes he does with haste:
Enticing goods and iPod things; but he produces only waste.
Below the land of living and above the land of dead,
In that land where Roger lives there are only words instead.
He writes himself a living. He writes himself a friend.
He writes himself a whole bloody mess, a mess to never end.
TV Star, Best Pal. Best friends there can be none.
For in a world of roger's making, the world is of only one.
His Consumer led recovery. His free market made at home.
Where he's free to take its orders and pretend they are his own.
And so the world of channel surfers, raised on TV dinners
Digest a daily diet of history according to winners.
And there's Roger. Roger is a writer. A slave without place.
Cos Roger is made from words, and words are lost in space.
The slave who picks his master is a slave by occupation,
Just as truth can never be when truth is interpretation.

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28 MAY 2007 at 10:31pm

Caroline

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I take my hat off to a real poet.   [smiley=bowdown.gif]

Gorgeous Alan, as always.  Another one for my collection.  
  :-*


Of course, you realise no one can ever seriously follow that.  




PS  Shadow

Get rid of ferociously and savagely, sounds like he's raping her.  And there are still too many adjectives - try it without the damp.  
amp is a weak word, unpleasant, half-arsed sort of dripping cavern type of imagery.  See you kept souls in.  Why attribute a metaphysical aspect to something that is purely physical?  Are they regular lovers - if so, why the solitude?   If strangers, then why the souls?  

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29 MAY 2007 at 4:46pm

ShadowWalker

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Originally Posted By Caroline (28 MAY 2007 10:31pm)
PS  Shadow

Get rid of ferociously and savagely, sounds like he's raping her.  And there are still too many adjectives - try it without the damp.  
amp is a weak word, unpleasant, half-arsed sort of dripping cavern type of imagery.  See you kept souls in.  Why attribute a metaphysical aspect to something that is purely physical?  Are they regular lovers - if so, why the solitude?   If strangers, then why the souls?  


Hello There!  


It stays as it is!

both participants are pounding and savagely lusting and defiling each other.

you do not have to just see it from the point of the woman being used.

Both are using each other.

Damp because it is sticky and nasty and raw [deleted]

Its meant to be crude.

And 'souls' and 'solutide'

Who says that you cannot find a kindred spirit right out of the blue to service your needs [soul] to take away your horn......s because you may have had a dry spell, hence the lonelyness driven away by a possible one night stand or not, or maybe lovers wanting a raunch time interlude, or two married people having their libido revved up by mutual accord, needs and rekindled conjugal lust to save a marriage after a lull where their mutual or personal needs have not been met; again....LONELYNESS!

You or anyone else can be and feel lonely even in the company of friends depending on the situation.

I want it left in the air and open to the readers own personal flight of fancy.

you have to read between the lines and find your own interpretations that suit you.

That is one of the nice things about poetry....you can always leave a hole that is filled by the reader if you wish.

I want it that way.  I neither have to or desire to explain everything!

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29 MAY 2007 at 5:08pm

ShadowWalker

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Originally Posted By Alan Thorn (28 MAY 2007 7:45pm)
Little Roger is a writer. He's a bit behind the times.
His words have no meaning except the meaning he assigns.
Roger is short, he is; and perhaps shorter than he is tall.                    
But Roger is short, no question; though taller than he is small.
Next-Gen Roger, the consumer. Consumes he does with haste:
Enticing goods and iPod things; but he produces only waste.
Below the land of living and above the land of dead,
In that land where Roger lives there are only words instead.
He writes himself a living. He writes himself a friend.
He writes himself a whole bloody mess, a mess to never end.
TV Star, Best Pal. Best friends there can be none.
For in a world of roger's making, the world is of only one.
His Consumer led recovery. His free market made at home.
Where he's free to take its orders and pretend they are his own.
And so the world of channel surfers, raised on TV dinners
Digest a daily diet of history according to winners.
And there's Roger. Roger is a writer. A slave without place.
Cos Roger is made from words, and words are lost in space.
The slave who picks his master is a slave by occupation,
Just as truth can never be when truth is interpretation.


Hello There!  


I really like it, truly I do.

I mean no disrespect or consider that I know better.
It is difficult to follow your poem because it runs all together line by line.

Caroline asked me why I put lines and indent my writing.

Just to make it easier to read or maybe separate ideas or just make it look different.

I changed yours not a single word, comma or period.
Just the spacing to just show you what I mean.

I separated the lines by what I considered different parts of the poem

But only you in the end can make the choice whether this is what you want or not, or whether you like my design or not.

Like I said, I do not presume to know better than you.
Just an idea shown to you.  No insult meant.




His words have no meaning except the meaning he assigns.

Roger is short, he is; and perhaps shorter than he is tall.                    
But Roger is short, no question; though taller than he is small.

Next-Gen Roger, the consumer. Consumes he does with haste:
Enticing goods and iPod things; but he produces only waste.

Below the land of living and above the land of dead,
In that land where Roger lives there are only words instead.
He writes himself a living. He writes himself a friend.
He writes himself a whole bloody mess, a mess to never end.

TV Star,
Best Pal.
Best friends there can be none.
For in a world of roger's making, the world is of only one.

His Consumer led recovery. His free market made at home.
Where he's free to take its orders and pretend they are his own.

And so the world of channel surfers, raised on TV dinners
Digest a daily diet of history according to winners.

And there's Roger. Roger is a writer.

A slave without place.

Cos Roger is made from words, and words are lost in space.

The slave who picks his master is a slave by occupation,
Just as truth can never be when truth is interpretation


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29 MAY 2007 at 5:15pm

ShadowWalker

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Originally Posted By JJ (28 MAY 2007 7:41am)
Get a room you two.  Otherwise do it by PM ............ you're giving me the creeps. [smiley=blush.gif]



Hello There!  


JJ......I like you................really.............I do..............no pun.................no joke!  


but!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! [smiley=devil_smiley_grintail.gif]


we give you the creeps you say
makes me want to go and bray  

loudly, dumfounded and shocked  

from your last parting shot

to placate your personal shame  [smiley=embarassed.gif]
by us just being so lame
trying to assuage your disdain
by having us restraint

from making you insist
telling us to desist
from making you feel haughty
because we are being naughty

so please feel safe
because we don’t crave
to make your feelings hurt
by just being curt

while you feel squeamish
while we skirmish
with poison pens
like two old hens  [smiley=hi_five.gif]


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29 MAY 2007 at 10:23pm

Caroline

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I think Alan's poem is perfect as it is.  I wouldn't change a thing about it.

It's meant to be read as a stream of consciousness, lots of ideas flowing one after the other, sharp insightful observations.... brilliant.





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