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| 16 APR 2007 at 5:31pm |
| Deleted User | Indeed. Another horrible school massacre, why do these things always happen in schools?
And this one is even worse than Columbine in terms of deaths.
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| 16 APR 2007 at 6:46pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Petter_Holmberg (16 APR 2007 5:31pm)
Another horrible school massacre, why do these things always happen in schools?
I don't think there are that many places where you'd have lots of people in a relatively confined space with very few exits. And maybe schools make people crazy.
News say 30 dead now. That is so wrong
I forgot my sig.
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| 16 APR 2007 at 7:26pm |
TCPrivate Detective
Posts : 688
Joined: 14 NOV 2005
Status : Online | Tsk tsk... Humans, humans, humans... It's funny how calling someone a beast is considered derogatory. I think people should take being called beasts as a compliment.
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| 16 APR 2007 at 7:42pm |
Lurker01Private Detective
Posts : 411
Joined: 23 JUN 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By MichalN (16 APR 2007 6:46pm)
Originally Posted By Petter_Holmberg (16 APR 2007 5:31pm)
Another horrible school massacre, why do these things always happen in schools?
I don't think there are that many places where you'd have lots of people in a relatively confined space with very few exits. And maybe schools make people crazy. There can be a lot of pressure involved, and you're dealing with kids who aren't always mature enough to be able to cope with it. That plus a high rate of gun ownership.
I remember, some time back, there was a discussion on what type of guns would be best for protecting people and how to make sure they weren't stolen by intruders. It seemed to totally miss the fact that the main threat from keeping guns on the premisis isn't having them stolen and used against you by a burglar.
News say 30 dead now. That is so wrong One death was one too many.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
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| 16 APR 2007 at 8:34pm |
chronotigger65Journeyman
Posts : 1142
Joined: 23 FEB 2005
Status : Offline | #$@%&#@$% to @#!$*&%$#&$ $#@#!!! > Pardon my language.
Very tragic indeed. But one thing for sure is that violent video games are going to be blamed and anti-video game laws are going to be passed more frequently.
What is Virginia Tech? A school or college?
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| 16 APR 2007 at 8:39pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By chronotigger65 (16 APR 2007 8:33pm)
Very tragic indeed. But one thing for sure is that violent video games are going to be blamed and anti-video game laws are going to be passed more frequently.
Indeed, and Hillary Clinton will probably be among the first to support that.
But that issue seems trivial right now. I wonder how it will affect the discussion about firearms and the state of things in America in general. After Columbine there was a lot of debate, now people are going to reflect on what has happened since then.
What is Virginia Tech? A school or college?
I think it's a university actually.
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| 16 APR 2007 at 8:59pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Petter_Holmberg (16 APR 2007 8:38pm)
But that issue seems trivial right now. I wonder how it will affect the discussion about firearms and the state of things in America in general. After Columbine there was a lot of debate, now people are going to reflect on what has happened since then.
Nothing happened, and nothing will happen now. NRA will explain to you how guns are absolutely essential for your own protection - and in fact if the students had been better armed, this tragedy could have been avoided (no, really)! I don't think America is going to give up guns anytime soon, if ever.
I'd blame cell phones BTW. I bet the shooter had one!
What is Virginia Tech? A school or college?
I think it's a university actually.
The full name is "Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University".
TC: In the US, there is not much differentiation in educational facilities until college level. Pretty much everyone goes to primary school and then to high school of some description. Then they either find a job or continue at a college or university. There are tons of them - community colleges, municipal colleges, state colleges, liberal arts colleges, state universities, private universities... as you can imagine, in a country the size of the US there are literally millions of college students.
I forgot my sig.
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| 16 APR 2007 at 9:38pm |
MissBSchattenjger
Posts : 2217
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | This is horrible. My co-workers and I watched the news all day as the death toll rose higher and higher.
THIS is why I got so upset when my daughter's name showed up on a "Hit List" at school three weeks ago and they blew me off [smiley=furious.gif] [smiley=furious.gif] [smiley=furious.gif]
My name is Bethany and I'm the daughter of Gamergal/Michelle.
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| 16 APR 2007 at 9:51pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Killing students must be so attractive to such sick minds. Innocence, youth, the future.... that's what they kill.
And so now the ante has been upped. The press have labelled this the biggest massacre. Some other sicko will try to outdo this one and take the record.
And my boys laugh themselves silly when they go into 'lockdown practice'. In my day it was fire drill - everyone onto the playground. Nowadays it's terrorism/gunmen they have to be trained for. What a horrible world this place can be sometimes.
All those parents..... :'( :'( :'(
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| 16 APR 2007 at 10:57pm |
TCPrivate Detective
Posts : 688
Joined: 14 NOV 2005
Status : Online | Wow, Caroline, I had no idea they practice lockdown at schools in Australia. And I thought that's another one of my country's exclusive 'luxuries'. :-/
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| 17 APR 2007 at 3:08am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | TC
I can't even do embroidery on an airplane now in case I storm the cabin with my tapestry needles.... :-/
The security clamp down response to the post 9/11 world is total - it's everywhere. >
The increased price of public insurance has meant lots of community functions and services no longer exist - all because of 9/11. >
People generally have become more security conscious. In Adelaide airport people pay to have their suitcases wrapped in miles of cling film to prevent people tampering with the contents. Mostly to avoid becoming unwitting drug mules.
But the advice for travellers to America is that we MUST NOT lock our suitcases. That one surprises me and makes me feel very vulnerable.
And I just hope they have plenty of bottled water for sale on our planes when we travel in June because we are no longer allowed to bring on board our own liquids.
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| 17 APR 2007 at 4:10am |
| Deleted User | They are reporting the killer as a 24 year old Chinese man who is here in the States under a student Visa. Guess he was upset about his girlfriend dumping him for another guy. If this all holds true.......
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| 17 APR 2007 at 4:45am |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Caroline (17 APR 2007 3:07am)
...In Adelaide airport people pay to have their suitcases wrapped in miles of cling film to prevent people tampering with the contents. Mostly to avoid becoming unwitting drug mules.
It's not necessarily the drugs Homeland Security are worried about, Caroline, it's the weapons.
"Halt! Drop your tatting...now!"
Weapons kill people, Caroline, not dru...no, wait. Sorry.
One of the first victims was from Martinez, Georgia, a little sleepy suburb of Augusta - my home town. I talked to an old childhood neighborhood friend of mine today. She was one of Ryan Clark's high school teachers and told me how excited he was to be accepted to Virginia Polytech. A Senior, Ryan was to graduate in May.
What I do not understand is the two hour gap between the murder of Ryan Clark and freshman Emily Hilscher in West Ambler Johnston Hall dormitory, and the subsequent massacre in the Norris Hall engineering building.
With all the communication devices available today, someone - somewhere - somehow - should have alerted the entire student body of danger and called for immediate evacuation and/or protection of the students, faculty, and campus workers.
How, after the first two cold-blooded murders in West Ambler, could have this escalated into massive horror having two full hours to alert every single person on that campus.
Yes, there are 26,000 students at Virginia Polytech, but there is no excuse for the lack of information or instruction provided those on campus during this two-hour window.
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 17 APR 2007 at 7:35am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Mark, that's just Monday morning quarterbacking. The police still won't say for sure that the two incidents were even connected!
After the first incident, where someone shot his girlfriend, I doubt there was a reason to suspect what would happen a few hours later. Maybe the authorities need a training in clairvoyance?
I forgot my sig.
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| 17 APR 2007 at 7:37am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By papabrody (17 APR 2007 4:09am)
If this all holds true.......
You need to invade China. Yeah, that's the ticket!
Incidentally, the news reports are a little conflicting (or maybe not...). The newspapers say that "the gunman might have been a young Asian man who recently arrived in the United States", and also that "a gunman had gone room to room looking for his ex-girlfriend". That doesn't quite sound like the same person.
I forgot my sig.
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| 17 APR 2007 at 10:59am |
TCPrivate Detective
Posts : 688
Joined: 14 NOV 2005
Status : Online | Originally Posted By MichalN (17 APR 2007 7:36am)
Incidentally, the news reports are a little conflicting (or maybe not...). The newspapers say that "the gunman might have been a young Asian man who recently arrived in the United States", and also that "a gunman had gone room to room looking for his ex-girlfriend". That doesn't quite sound like the same person.
Eh... Why not?
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| 17 APR 2007 at 11:09am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By TC (17 APR 2007 10:59am)
Eh... Why not?
Because "recently arrived" sounds (to me anyway) like a few months at most. And he already had an American ex-girlfriend? I dunno, maybe some people are fast...
I forgot my sig.
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| 17 APR 2007 at 2:13pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | The shooter was South Korean born, 23 years old. He had come to the US as a child and lived in Virginia. I guess the "recently arrived" line was bogus.
Police will not say for sure that there was only one shooter, only that it is a "reasonable" assumption. There may have been an accomplice. I'm guessing that the known facts about the first shooting are extremely sketchy.
The shooter was armed with two handguns, one 9mm and one .22 caliber. He had no high powered weapons, just what anyone can legally buy on the open market in Virginia.
At least two professors were killed, one originally from Romania and the other from India.
The hospitalized students are, fortunately, doing pretty well.
Gun advocates are calling for more guns and are decrying the fact that the teachers and students had not been armed.
I forgot my sig.
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| 17 APR 2007 at 3:02pm |
TCPrivate Detective
Posts : 688
Joined: 14 NOV 2005
Status : Online | Stupid people, these gun advocates. >
Yeah, I guess it didn't make much sense that the terrorist was a new arrival to the US.
I think I've heard on CNN that among the victims is an Israeli-born Romanian? But on Israeli news casts it was reported that there aren't any Israeli casualties? Doesn't being born in Israel make you even remotely Israeli? I think it's the same Romanian professor you are referring to, Michael.
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| 17 APR 2007 at 3:16pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By TC (17 APR 2007 3:02pm)
Yeah, I guess it didn't make much sense that the terrorist was a new arrival to the US.
Latest news reports say he arrived in the US with his parents when he was in grade school. Maybe roughly 10 years ago (my guess)?
I think I've heard on CNN that among the victims is an Israeli-born Romanian? But on Israeli news casts it was reported that there aren't any Israeli casualties? Doesn't being born in Israel make you even remotely Israeli? I think it's the same Romanian professor you were referring to, Michael.
Yes. A Romanian-born Israeli, actually (he was 76 so he can't have been born in the state of Israel). He was Prof. Liviu Librescu (a very Romanian sounding name), I would guess a Romanian Jew. Not that I think it's particularly important where each victim came from... they were all people and none of them should have died.
I forgot my sig.
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| 17 APR 2007 at 3:20pm |
TCPrivate Detective
Posts : 688
Joined: 14 NOV 2005
Status : Online | Of course it's not important, the only thing that bugs me is the warped conclusions policy-makers and supposedly 'important people' reach to after such catastrophes.
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| 17 APR 2007 at 6:57pm |
| Deleted User | The weapons issue is of course important (it would be very difficult to conduct such a massacre without firearms) but an even more important issue might be how mentally unstable people are discovered and treated in today's American society. A debate about this has been going on in Sweden for a number of years, after mental patients on parole have committed a number of unprovoked murders in various situations. One person ran a car right into a crowd on a pedestrian street in Stockholm for instance. Some people are just walking time bombs, ready to go off at any moment. The question is how good we are at spotting them before a tragedy happens, and how we treat the ones we have already spotted.
I suspect that this massacre is the sad combination of this being a problem in America too and the easy access to guns. Of course it could be that no one could have ever imagined the shooter was capable of something like this, but it's worth investigating.
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| 17 APR 2007 at 7:08pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Looks like in this case, there definitely were warning signs. Even his roommates didn't know the guy! He was definitely a loner and a bit of a weirdo, but he wasn't a troublemaker and it doesn't sound like he had any history of violence.
Maybe if he couldn't easily get a gun, he'd run into a crowd of people with a car. But he could easily get a gun (two in fact), so we'll never know.
I forgot my sig.
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| 17 APR 2007 at 7:11pm |
KarstenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 347
Joined: 23 SEP 2006
Location: DK
Status : Offline | Right now, I think the most important thing to do is to let your thoughts go out to the victims and their families. Later we can (maybe) start discussing why it happened and how we can prevent it again.
As I watch CNN's report from the convocation (memorial something?) I learn that this school, this university was indeed a sign of our globalized world. Many of the students come from alle over the wold.
And as such, as the internet communities also come from all over the world, I deeply feel that we need to let our thougths reach & go out to families, victims and not at least the school itself.
And yes, all of the victims were human people, and neither of them should have been killed.
Sadly [smiley=cry.gif] 32 people got killed by the gunman, Cho. [smiley=cry.gif]
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