| 4 APR 2007 at 11:13pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Is that the right website for the company? It's some multi-media thing, not a 'game' site. [smiley=shrug.gif]
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| 5 APR 2007 at 5:29pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ivinia (4 APR 2007 11:12pm)
Is that the right website for the company? It's some multi-media thing, not a 'game' site. [smiley=shrug.gif]
yeah, when i first saw the site it didn't seem right, but the email on the site matches the one where the sshots came from, so i guess that's them
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 6 APR 2007 at 6:36pm |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | I saw a trailer for, uh, Heaven (the game, that is). It was sorta enlightening.
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 15 APR 2007 at 1:28am |
ArngrimIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 43
Joined: 9 AUG 2006
Status : Online | I just saw the trailer too... probably another Evangelist propaganda based game.
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| 15 APR 2007 at 5:37am |
| Deleted User | Looks pretty good to me so far. Propaganda......geez.....talking about judgemental.
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| 15 APR 2007 at 6:36am |
Lurker01Private Detective
Posts : 411
Joined: 23 JUN 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | Regrettably, I think he may be right, papabrody. Just take a look at the game developers 'website'.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
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| 16 APR 2007 at 3:19am |
| Deleted User | I don't understand how you can label a Christian Game Development Company something as toxic as "Propaganda." If you don't like that genre, then don't buy it. But keep your "hating" to yourself.
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| 16 APR 2007 at 4:49am |
ArngrimIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 43
Joined: 9 AUG 2006
Status : Online | "Hating"? Did you see any hate words in the sentence I wrote? Obviously you didn't, your just trying to put words unto my mouth so you could prove me wrong. But really if you can't call those kind of products "propaganda" what are you supposed to call them?
Left Behind: Eternal Forces is one of these games and really the money they got to spent on this junk was of about 27$ millions and really I don't think a rather obscure developper got that much on it's own, more like some fellow good Evangelists financed that game. Proof here: http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/leftbehindeternalforces/news.html?sid=6147323#comments
But really it's all the same my son, because as the Evangelists says "God loves me as much as he loves you", right?
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| 16 APR 2007 at 9:54am |
KarstenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 347
Joined: 23 SEP 2006
Location: DK
Status : Offline | To paraphrase:
All good games are religious (or political), all political (or religious) games are bad.
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| 16 APR 2007 at 12:14pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Sorry, but there are AGs out there that push the paranormal, witchcraft, etc. yet no one calls those propaganda. They're just games based on a theme. Everyone has their interests. Christians like christian themed games. No one is forcing it on anyone.
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| 16 APR 2007 at 1:04pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Ivinia (16 APR 2007 12:14pm)
Sorry, but there are AGs out there that push the paranormal, witchcraft, etc. yet no one calls those propaganda.
Um, games that 'push' witchcraft and the paranormal? I've seen plenty of games with plots based around those themes, but I've never seen any which try to persuade players that they actually exist. Games which are made solely to promote a particular religious or political viewpoint are a completely different matter (and yes, before you ask, I personally would regard a game promoting atheism as 'propaganda' as well).
They're just games based on a theme. Everyone has their interests. Christians like christian themed games.
That's true, and I don't begrudge Christians their games. However, the problem is that this type of game pretty much automatically shuts out anyone who isn't a Christian (unless they're prepared to tolerate being preached at, which most people aren't). I was actually quite intrigued by Heaven for the ten seconds or so before I realised that it was an evangelical game, and thus of no interest to me. For the most part, Christians (barring the really fanatical ones) can enjoy games featuring witchcraft etc. because they know perfectly well that it's just a story; a game that tells you 'This is what you're supposed to believe' is entirely different.
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| 16 APR 2007 at 2:22pm |
ArngrimIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 43
Joined: 9 AUG 2006
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Ksandra (16 APR 2007 1:04pm)
I was actually quite intrigued by Heaven for the ten seconds or so before I realised that it was an evangelical game, and thus of no interest to me. For the most part, Christians (barring the really fanatical ones) can enjoy games featuring witchcraft etc. because they know perfectly well that it's just a story; a game that tells you 'This is what you're supposed to believe' is entirely different.
I agree with this statement, oh and if this can help to take out the argument of "oy, the hate on the christians!!!" I am christian myself from Europe, but non praticant (quite different then the people in the US, that are REALLY unto religion.) I really don't mind games that adds religion in it to back up the story, a good examples are Knights of the Temple games or more recently Infernal. But the difference between those 2 games and games like Left Behind: Eternal Forces and Heaven is the way religion is used, more as like a "weapon" then a mean to back up the story of the game.
But really you have gotta be honest, a unknown obscure developper that calls itself "Genesis Works" (which is pretty cocky in itself) appears out of nowhere and all of a sudden announces a game called Heaven and at that they already have a publisher a release date AND had the necessary fundings to make this game in the most secretive way, oh how very very lucky, doesn't smell fishy at all...
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| 16 APR 2007 at 5:47pm |
colpetSchattenjger
Posts : 1630
Joined: 12 APR 2003
Status : Offline | I was interested in what I saw about this game until I realized it had religious agenda. Nothing turns me off more than a religious stance of any type. This could be Riven 2 and I still would not buy it .
Occasionally visiting Uru Live (KI 0063722 .&&
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| 16 APR 2007 at 8:14pm |
Lurker01Private Detective
Posts : 411
Joined: 23 JUN 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | There is a strong indication that this game is more about pushing someone's agenda than anything else. Besides, even putting proganda aside, I wouldn't want to buy the game based on what I've seen. If they make games in the same way they make websites, it will involve a lot of style with virtually no substance behind it (propaganda excluded).
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
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| 16 APR 2007 at 9:52pm |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | I just hope Heaven is an Adventure Game. I don't feel like deifying or condemning people as modus operandi for exploration in an AG.
Anyway...all those streets paved with gold were starting to hurt my eyes.
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 16 APR 2007 at 10:20pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Gee, I don't know if I should say this or not.
But it looks kind of funny to me --
like Atlantis meets Barbie.
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| 16 APR 2007 at 10:33pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ksandra (16 APR 2007 1:04pm)
Um, games that 'push' witchcraft and the paranormal? I've seen plenty of games with plots based around those themes, but I've never seen any which try to persuade players that they actually exist.
That's because you and many others don't see it that way. How many games have you mixing ingredients to make a potion or spell? Quite a few actually. Same with the whole restless spirits and freeing trapped ghosts. You look at those as entertainment and non-threatening. Yet if a game so much as throws in a bible and/or Christian themes, then suddenly some resistance kicks in and it's "pushing" an agenda. Maybe this game will tell you to "get right with the Lord!". It's a possibility, but what does anyone know for sure right now? Nothing.
They are a Christian game developer and the game takes place in Heaven. That's ALL we know. Any comments about pushing an agenda are purely speculation. Not all Christian games are religious. Many are just 'clean' with no sex, drugs, or violence. Of course with some of the ultra sensitive out there, if there is so much as a reference to Jesus - then the game will suddenly be thrust into the propaganda category.
However, the problem is that this type of game pretty much automatically shuts out anyone who isn't a Christian (unless they're prepared to tolerate being preached at, which most people aren't).
Just as many games today shut out Christians. From violence, to sex, etc....
Personally, I'm not interested in this game either. It's a theme that doesn't appeal to me although I might give it a shot. What I find amazing is that so many games get announced on here and no one says hardly anything about them. Mention religion (Christian in particular) and suddenly people come out of the woodwork to attack it with negative comments. What are those comments based on? Not the graphics, setting, or the interface which we DO know about, but the story and 'message' which we know NOTHING about.
So much for being open-minded and tolerant... :-/
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| 16 APR 2007 at 10:34pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Mark (16 APR 2007 9:52pm)
Anyway...all those streets paved with gold were starting to hurt my eyes.
Same here. Too much 'bling' for me.
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| 17 APR 2007 at 4:24am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Ivinia (16 APR 2007 10:32pm)
What I find amazing is that so many games get announced on here and no one says hardly anything about them. Mention religion (Christian in particular) and suddenly people come out of the woodwork to attack it with negative comments. What are those comments based on? Not the graphics, setting, or the interface which we DO know about, but the story and 'message' which we know NOTHING about.
So much for being open-minded and tolerant... :-/
Ain't that the truth. Almost borderline paranoia. Heck...even the Christian gaming sites recommend Nancy Drew games. Maybe they are pushing that dreaded "Female Detective Superiority Propaganda" on us again. :
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| 17 APR 2007 at 6:24am |
Lurker01Private Detective
Posts : 411
Joined: 23 JUN 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ivinia (16 APR 2007 10:32pm)
Originally Posted By Ksandra (16 APR 2007 1:04pm)
Um, games that 'push' witchcraft and the paranormal? I've seen plenty of games with plots based around those themes, but I've never seen any which try to persuade players that they actually exist.
That's because you and many others don't see it that way. How many games have you mixing ingredients to make a potion or spell? Quite a few actually. Same with the whole restless spirits and freeing trapped ghosts. You look at those as entertainment and non-threatening. Yet if a game so much as throws in a bible and/or Christian themes, then suddenly some resistance kicks in and it's "pushing" an agenda. Maybe this game will tell you to "get right with the Lord!". It's a possibility, but what does anyone know for sure right now? Nothing.
They are a Christian game developer and the game takes place in Heaven. That's ALL we know. Any comments about pushing an agenda are purely speculation. Not all Christian games are religious. Many are just 'clean' with no sex, drugs, or violence. Of course with some of the ultra sensitive out there, if there is so much as a reference to Jesus - then the game will suddenly be thrust into the propaganda category. Which was why I went to their website to get a better idea of them. I would trust them more if they struck me as a group of professionals who did a variety of games, however, their websites struck me as being the work of amatuers and as far as I can tell it is the only game made by this company. Besides, its not so much that this game uses Christian themes as it is that they were the main thing emphaisised in the trailer.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
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| 17 APR 2007 at 6:42am |
Lurker01Private Detective
Posts : 411
Joined: 23 JUN 2004
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ivinia (16 APR 2007 10:32pm)
Originally Posted By Ksandra (16 APR 2007 1:04pm)
Um, games that 'push' witchcraft and the paranormal? I've seen plenty of games with plots based around those themes, but I've never seen any which try to persuade players that they actually exist.
That's because you and many others don't see it that way. How many games have you mixing ingredients to make a potion or spell? Quite a few actually. Same with the whole restless spirits and freeing trapped ghosts. How many of those games go out of their way to call attention to the fact that what your doing is witchcraft? Also, correct me if I'm wrong but I thought that exorcism was a Christian theme. Or at least a theme that is found in religions, one of which is Christianity.
You look at those as entertainment and non-threatening. Yet if a game so much as throws in a bible and/or Christian themes, then suddenly some resistance kicks in and it's "pushing" an agenda. Maybe this game will tell you to "get right with the Lord!". It's a possibility, but what does anyone know for sure right now? Nothing.
They are a Christian game developer and the game takes place in Heaven. That's ALL we know. Any comments about pushing an agenda are purely speculation. Not all Christian games are religious. Many are just 'clean' with no sex, drugs, or violence. Of course with some of the ultra sensitive out there, if there is so much as a reference to Jesus - then the game will suddenly be thrust into the propaganda category. Clean games is one thing. If a 'Christian' game goes out of its way to point out that it is a 'Christian' game, or if the trailer for such a game does so, then I think that propaganda is a fairly safe bet.
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
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| 17 APR 2007 at 1:24pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Ivinia (16 APR 2007 10:32pm)
That's because you and many others don't see it that way. How many games have you mixing ingredients to make a potion or spell? Quite a few actually. Same with the whole restless spirits and freeing trapped ghosts.
So what? You seem to have completely missed my point, which is that none of these games are trying to persuade you that you can really make magic potions or cast spells. Some people may believe those things in real life, but you certainly don't see the developers of these games describing themselves as 'witches' or 'satanists' and filling the games with heavy-handed promotion of their own beliefs - whereas the makers of 'Christian' games do, which is the entire point.
Yet if a game so much as throws in a bible and/or Christian themes, then suddenly some resistance kicks in and it's "pushing" an agenda.
Rubbish. Look at the Broken Sword games - they're chock-full of Christian themes and references to Christianity, but does anyone complain about them? Of course not, and the reason is simple - they may use Christian mythology as the basis for the plots, but they don't seriously expect players to believe that there are groups of Templar Knights living in the Parisian sewers or powerful Biblical artifacts buried underneath the Vatican. You don't have to be even slightly religious in order to enjoy those games, because their aim is to entertain, not to preach at players or try to convert them.
They are a Christian game developer and the game takes place in Heaven. That's ALL we know. Any comments about pushing an agenda are purely speculation.
Again, rubbish. As other posters have commented, all you need to do is watch the trailer and/or look at the developers' website to see very clearly what their agenda is.
Just as many games today shut out Christians. From violence, to sex, etc....
No, they don't shut out 'Christians'; they shut out people who disapprove of violence and sex in games, who may or may not be Christian. Here in the UK, where people in general are much less strongly and overtly religious, most Christians are as likely as anyone else to play and enjoy games with these elements in them. And in any case, anyone who does disapprove of violent games such as shooters is not going to want to play that kind of game in the first place, so it's silly to talk about them being 'shut out'.
What I find amazing is that so many games get announced on here and no one says hardly anything about them. Mention religion (Christian in particular) and suddenly people come out of the woodwork to attack it with negative comments.
OK, I'm going to put this very simply: I do not play games to be preached at. It doesn't matter whether the beliefs involved are Christian, Muslim, Scientologist or anything else; I don't want to play a game if its main purpose is to promote a specific belief system (and that includes my own). The reason why Christians take more flak in this respect is quite simply because they do this far more often than anyone else - when was the last time you heard of a 'Buddhist' adventure game or a 'humanist' adventure game? It has nothing to do with bias against Christians, so please, stop with the "woe is me, everyone hates us," act.
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| 17 APR 2007 at 4:09pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Give me a break...
Let me see if I can figure this out.
A developer calls themselves a Christian Game Developer and is getting ready to release a game called Heaven. You have thus far surmissed that you will be preached to as they push their Christian agenda on you. After all, "look at the developers' website to see very clearly what their agenda is." Their website consists of a single main page that has the company name and the words Christian Game Developer - that's it. Just the word Christian has caused you to jump to a huge conclusion that you will be preached to and force fed an agenda.
Let me give you this: http://www.virtuegames.com/ Remember Derek and Nacah? Two Christian themed games - heck you even needed a King James Bible to play one of them. I don't recall being PREACHED to in either one of those, nor did I feel like they were pushing some big agenda. They were Christian themed adventure games, not some recruiting tool for God's Army.
As far as Lurker's comment about them being some amatuer outfit that came from nowhere:
World renown concept artists Stephan Martiniere – the visual art director at Cyan where he worked on Uru: Ages Beyond Myst, Uru: The Path of the Shell and Myst 5 - and Dylan Cole – who worked on the films Superman Returns, Daredevil and The Chronicles of Riddick - have brought developers Genesis Works Biblical view of Heaven to reality. Former employees from Digital Domain – a visual effects company co-founded by director James Cameron and effects whiz Stan Winston - and Marvel comics have also lent their talents and skills to Heaven.
I'd hardly call them amatuers...
The trailer was nothing more than a bible passage and some glittery scenes of what Heaven is supposed to look like. Lots of games have bible passages. Apparently you missed the spaceship flying through some meteor storm... Maybe they are pushing some sci-fi agenda too? The bottom line is that you guys know NOTHING about this game and are speculating before knowing any facts. (Yes, MichalN is rubbing off on me.)
Maybe they will push an agenda and preach, who knows? Assuming they automatically will because they labelled themselves as Christian developers is pure paranoia on your parts. Even if they are going to do that, so what? Don't buy the game.
Here's a thought based on the trailer...The earth is headed for destruction and you get in your spaceship to escape and end up in Heaven. You do whatever it is you are supposed to do there like convince them the earth is worth saving, then all the angels follow you back to save the earth. A pure assumption on my part based on the trailer. Even so, if that is your idea of pushing an agenda, then you are a bit too sensative.
I guess it's ok to play alchoholics, theives, cutthroats and everything else, but to have your character be a Christian is a big no-no...that's pretty pathetic. Who knows? Maybe your character isn't a Christian and becomes one during the game. So what?
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| 17 APR 2007 at 5:44pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Ivinia (17 APR 2007 4:09pm)
The bottom line is that you guys know NOTHING about this game and are speculating before knowing any facts. Yes, MichalN is rubbing off on me.)
Not jumping to conclusions is a sensible thing to do
That said... if I was a betting man, I'd bet Ksandra is right. This sounds like a pretty expensive production. Who's funding it and what do they want for their money?
Besides, the screenshots are so sugary sweet that they look like something out of Jehovah's Witnesses recruiting pamphlet
I forgot my sig.
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