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| 2 APR 2007 at 5:53am |
SusanGuild Master
Posts : 5485
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: 0
Status : Offline | About the only thing that's guaranteed to be on the shelf on its release date is a Sims 2 expansion. :
I'm used to waiting a few weeks for Nancy Drew games to appear on the shelves and staying in the Educational section when they do, but I'm beginning to wonder about other adventure games. They seem to be disappearing!
Some games have migrated to the budget jewelcases section, where they've stayed, but I swear Best Buy used to have a section devoted to TAC games and I'm not seeing that anymore. Myst 4 and 5 on the shelves, maybe. There are more and more of the boxed casual games, so I guess they had to make room for them.
I used to see Dreamfall all over the place, but I was "lucky" to find it at a Comp USA store that was going out of business last month, and quickly snatched it up. That particular store had some games released a couple years ago, like Still Life, but was not stocking the more recent games, which was probably b/c they were going out of business, but you never know.
Circuit City seems to have a surplus supply of Myst 3 for PS2 for $14.99. I saw this in two separate stores, so it must be true.
Target carries ND (of course!), Scratches, Barrow Hill (just picked this one up), Murder on the Orient Express, and Evidence: The Last Ritual. Some budget jewelcase AGs, but that's it for new ones.
In my desperate search for Runaway 2 and Broken Sword 4, I went into an EB Games and Gamespot, even though I am adverse to their pre-opening of game boxes, and not all of them carry PC games. I saw the new KQ Collection (first time on any shelf anywhere) and Paradise, but not what I was looking for, and I know what I'm seeing among all of the adventure games in these stores put together is much less than what is actually being released.
I see now why so many people shop online. I have a thing for boxes with the fold-out front cover flap, which is why I prefer to peruse the stores b/c most online shops carry DVD cases; however, this inability to find games in stores might explain why I'm buying so few adventure games anymore, and feeling like it, too. How sad!
I miss my Bubba: 1986 - 2006.
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| 2 APR 2007 at 6:28am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | I think it's PC games in general. The shelf space keeps shrinking, while console game shelf space keeps expanding. As a matter of fact, I know of a few developers whose games I used to play and wondered why they were so quiet last year. Further checking showed that they are now developing for the Playstation and XBox and have dropped PC games altogether. >
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| 2 APR 2007 at 9:19am |
ScarecrowIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 28
Joined: 26 MAR 2007
Status : Online | It's annoying, but it's also fun, like a treasure hunt. Whenever I pass by a games store, I'll take a quick look inside and if I manage to find that one adventure game peeking out from behind the multitude of shooters and RPGs, I feel a thrill of delight. The rarity of adventure games only adds to their appeal.
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| 2 APR 2007 at 11:38am |
kuddlesPrivate Detective
Posts : 702
Joined: 22 OCT 2004
Status : Online | Yep. PC Games just aren't sellers anymore. Adventure games on the PC are a niche market of a niche market, so it's understandable why they're so hard to find. That's why the future is digital distribution, man!
[size=10][b]Games:[/b] Europa Universalis III&&[b]Music:[/b] [i]Awoo[/i] - Hidden Cameras&&[b]Series:[/b] Dexter (S1)&&[b]Movies:[/b] The Prestige (8/10) Little Miss Sunshine (5/10)&&[/size]
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| 2 APR 2007 at 11:53am |
sg7Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 213
Joined: 8 JUN 2004
Location: UK
Status : Offline | Just to rub salt into the wounds , reamfall is available for download from Valves Steam network ,along with a lot of the EIDOS back catalogue :-/
Playing ME3-Citadel ,TOMB raider ,Skyrim Dragonborn
Waiting fot journey down episode 2 ,Dragon AGE 3
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| 2 APR 2007 at 1:42pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Susan, the Office Goddess (2 APR 2007 5:53am)
I see now why so many people shop online. I have a thing for boxes with the fold-out front cover flap, which is why I prefer to peruse the stores b/c most online shops carry DVD cases; however,
That depends on what you order. Nancy Drew games tend to come in DVD cases if you order them from Amazon. But most of the games published in the USA come in boxes. They don't always have a fold-out cover though. If you get an import game from some place like Gogamer, it may come in a DVD case (like Secrets of Atlantis and BS4). But the DVD version of Runaway 2 I got from Gogamer came in a box (which surprised me because DVD games usually come in DVD cases).
this inability to find games in stores might explain why I'm buying so few adventure games anymore, and feeling like it, too. How sad!
It's been years since I could be sure of finding new adventure games in stores. I imagine people who aren't used to using the Internet just don't buy games anymore. I came into adventures games late, in 1999, and so I was used to buying games online. The older games weren't available in stores any more, and I wanted to buy the games I'd missed. All the LucasArts games (with the exception of Grim Fandango) had to be bought online. Almost every game I own was bought online -- either because I never saw it in a store or because I put off buying it and next time I went to the store it was gone and they never got more in.
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| 2 APR 2007 at 6:28pm |
kateSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 245
Joined: 20 FEB 2007
Status : Online | i gave up on stores, because i would preorder and it would take weeks after it came out before they get it, at first it was a day or two now its weeks this is at our semi local eb games, i buy from just adventure , its like if there not a BIG game demand than whe are secondary. :-/
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| 2 APR 2007 at 7:13pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By kate (2 APR 2007 6:28pm)
i gave up on stores, because i would preorder and it would take weeks after it came out before they get it, at first it was a day or two now its weeks this is at our semi local eb games, i buy from just adventure , its like if there not a BIG game demand than whe are secondary. :-/
Ain't it the truth?
I started noticing a significant decline in the number of PC games at a very wide variety of retail stores here in the Houston area almost a decade ago. Since then, the once huge PC game sections at Computer City, CompUSA, Best Buy, EB, GameStop and elsewhere have steadily dwindled to a tiny fraction of their former sprawling selves. In several cases they have disappeared altogether.
My local MicroCenter still has a decent selection though and the nearest Best Buy still has a few full aisles (although only a third as many as in the late 1990's). Theses stores also moved what's left of their PC game sections further and further toward the back, eliminated all but the occasional end-aisle displays and have reduced their ad space dedicated to the format down to practically nothing.
When I posted my initial observations of this sad trend on the larger game forums like GameSpot back then, most die-hard PC fans scoffed saying, "We'll be back. It's just the typical down cycle you get whenever a new generation of consoles comes out." But I knew from reading the advertising and retail trade journals that simply wasn't true. Virtually all the big game publishers and retail chains had already started a sustained, long-term reduction in related expenditures for media marketing, promotions, shelf space, acquisitions and development. Meanwhile, Sony, Nintendo and Microsoft continued to post impressive sales numbers and even the Sega Dreamcast stuck around for a while longer.
Many other gamecos were also already well into conversion from the PC to the console format as their main focus. Numerous titles previously announced as PC exclusives were cancelled, changed to console-only games or switched to cross-platform products with the PC getting relegated to a distant second banana position.
There have been some periods of mild recovery though as The Sims, WOW and a handful of other extremely popular franchises have helped overall sales. But the net result is still the same. PC gaming has taken a back seat to consoles and handhelds because that's where the big money is and those proprietary, closed-system formats present far fewer problems / risks for all involved.
Our poor little niche within a niche is lucky to get any media attention, retail space or budget dollars at all these days.
Cheers, Terry
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| 2 APR 2007 at 7:54pm |
jamarchandSchattenjger
Posts : 1665
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | As a brazillian citizen, I'm very accostumated with total absence of adventure titles in store shelves. My only solution is buy used or new adv. > overseas. :'(
 &&&&[move]Actually playing SHIVERS and Rhem 2[/move]&&
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| 2 APR 2007 at 8:37pm |
Joe_MolotovSpace Cadet
Posts : 153
Joined: 4 OCT 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Scarecrow (2 APR 2007 9:19am)
It's annoying, but it's also fun, like a treasure hunt. Whenever I pass by a games store, I'll take a quick look inside and if I manage to find that one adventure game peeking out from behind the multitude of shooters and RPGs, I feel a thrill of delight. The rarity of adventure games only adds to their appeal.
Ha, yeah. I found Ankh for $9.99 at Gamestop last week. I also found Dreamfall for $7.50 at Target.
But for the most part, buying online is the way to go. PC Adventure games are niche, like Anime or Britcoms on DVD. If you want anything but the biggest releases, you're probably not going to find it at a place like Target.
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| 3 APR 2007 at 9:52pm |
jalexSchattenjger
Posts : 2503
Joined: 5 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | The way I see it is that more console games are sold because people buy them and play them once and throw them away where adventure games are usually bought once and kept by everyone for a vary long time. The game stores can sell a lot more games in this way. There is also the age difference as the older gamers tend to play more adventure games than console games but they are not as big a share of the market as many don't have much time to play games.
I don't mind shopping on the net as long as I can get a factory labled disk set in any kind of labled box and we don't have any game stores close by anyway.
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| 4 APR 2007 at 3:32am |
kateSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 245
Joined: 20 FEB 2007
Status : Online | i just don't known why computer games in general are getting lesser these new consoles cost more than an computer, i mean you use your computer for internet, working, playing games, consoles are just games, and expensive ones at that, i love adventure games i don't care for consoles at all. i like using a mouse, not a controller, >
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| 4 APR 2007 at 4:16am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Yes, but they do have a distinct advantage over computers Kate. When you buy a game for a console, it 'should' work with no worries. With PCs you have to look very carefully at the specs, you might not have a good enough graphics card, enough memory, drivers need to be updated, etc. Then there is the whole installation process. With consoles the only thing you really have to worry about it keeping the DVD reader clean. :-/
For developers and publishers, moving to the consoles greatly decreases the amount of support needed since you don't have to help people with strange configurations. I might be wrong here, but I think pirating is also a minor issue with consoles - with PCs you often have a pirated game coming out before the real one hits the store shelves.
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| 4 APR 2007 at 12:25pm |
beaconIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 16
Joined: 4 MAR 2007
Status : Online | This is another reason that Adventure Gamer makers need to embrace full 3D. This way, their adventure games can be made for consoles and be accessible to a larger market.
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| 4 APR 2007 at 2:23pm |
SusanGuild Master
Posts : 5485
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ivinia (4 APR 2007 4:15am)
When you buy a game for a console, it 'should' work with no worries.
Oh sure, today's new consoles are setup that way. Prior to my purchase of a PS2 (and small selection of games), my only memory/knowledge of consoles was "grab the cartridge and blow."
Susan waits for it to sink in with those familiar with the old days of playing Nintendo.
.
.
.
*Tumbleweed rolls by.*
It is nice to just pop in the game and be ready to go, rather than waiting for things to load when I startup the computer, but sitting on the floor in front of the TV gets uncomfortable (why would I want to sit on the couch?) and I'm farther away from access to hints, since I then have to turn on the computer anyway if I get stuck. :
I miss my Bubba: 1986 - 2006.
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| 4 APR 2007 at 9:29pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I have given up buying games in shops since I discovered the internet. Now I no longer wait for them to arrive in Australia (Oz is not expecting Aura2 until 31 May) but buy them off ebay overseas. When I think of all the games I missed out on because they didn't come into the stores here...
[smiley=hair_pull.gif]
I've just bought Aura 2 for $14 dollars less, new from ebay USA rather than wait two more months and pay more from Sydney. Strange market. :-/
But yesterday I saw a game controller just like playstation only for the PC. What's with that? Is it better than a mouse? Is it only for action games? oes anyone here have one?
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| 4 APR 2007 at 10:04pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | I used to have those Gravis Gamepads for my computer. In a nutshell, they sucked. I was hoping to play a good mario-type of platform game, but not of them let me use the gamepad. The other thing was the handle, which was some cheap plastic screw on thing broke off easily. most of the time when I just had it sitting around and bumped it into something. They supplied two sticks with it, but within a week both of them broke. You can go to their website and get some metal ones for free. I requested mine and never got them - why they didn't give you metal ones to begin with is beyond me.
Now logitech has some gamepad controllers like the X-Box which is more stable. Of course though, in Microsoft fashion, the X-Box controller itself will plug into a PC and work with Direct X. The trick is using it on games. I don't know of many people who would, I find the Mouse/Keyboard combo to be much easier to use.
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| 4 APR 2007 at 10:51pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Caroline (4 APR 2007 9:29pm)
But yesterday I saw a game controller just like playstation only for the PC. What's with that? Is it better than a mouse? Is it only for action games? oes anyone here have one?
I have one made by Nyko that I used for Dreamfall. Unlike Ivinia's, mine didn't have any tech problems and still works. I've only used it with that one game though, and I turned off the vibrator because it made me want to throw it across the room.
Maybe if I replay Grim Fandango or Escape From Monkey Island I'll see if I can get it to work with one of those. BS3 and Fahrenheit allowed you to use a gamepad. At the moment I can't think of any other adventure games (or close-to-adventure games) that can use one. Maybe Odyssey or Arthur's Knights? I can't remember. Anyway, it was a big help for Dreamfall (and would have been for BS3 if I'd had it when I played the game).
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| 4 APR 2007 at 11:39pm |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Caroline (4 APR 2007 9:29pm)
...I saw a game controller just like playstation only for the PC. What's with that? Is it better than a mouse? Is it only for action games? Does anyone here have one?
Caroline - Goddess - check out Chronotigger65's recent Topic Best and worst game controllers.
Different controllers are discussed. I personally have played the XBox 360 Controller for the PC and found it was perfect. The best console-for-PC game controller I've ever played. 'course, at $45, I haven't bought one yet, but it will be the one I want. It is not "Wireless", because it has to plug into your computer's USB port.
And Ivinia, my favorite game controller of all time was the Gravis XTerminator Digital Gamepad.
It wasn't USB, but plugged into a P/S 2 port. (you know, the old multi-pin game-port plug-in).
You must have had a newer, uh, less "quality-controlled" version, maybe? Support back then with Gravis was unparalleled. I talked (no Toll Charges) with Gravis technicians, and they were wonderful.
Again, this was seven years ago, but it was fantastic. I could do anything with it. I played Grim Fandango (and Jenny100: yes, I used it for Odyssey: The Search for Ulysses, too) effortlessly with it. It could control your cursor's movement, it could be easily and ergonomically programmed to perform multiple-key presses, etc. using only one button-press. Fabulously simple.
It would even program in multiple "Hot Keys" that were perfect, for example, to tell Manny to "open" his "trench-coat" inventory system, or tell him to run without holding "Shift" and the "Run" key. One button press (a "micro", of sorts) did multiple things. I never used the keyboard ever.
So, check out the other Topic if you wish, but my vote goes for the Microsoft XBox 360 Gamepad for the PC.
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 5 APR 2007 at 4:19pm |
jalexSchattenjger
Posts : 2503
Joined: 5 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By beacon (4 APR 2007 12:24pm)
This is another reason that Adventure Gamer makers need to embrace full 3D. This way, their adventure games can be made for consoles and be accessible to a larger market.
I think things like this are how we are killing adventure games. The whole idea behind adventure games was to have good interactive stories with a few puzzles that where easy to control so as to not distract from the story. By trying to convert them to something they were never ment to be we will loose them all together.
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| 5 APR 2007 at 7:33pm |
beaconIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 16
Joined: 4 MAR 2007
Status : Online | Originally Posted By jalex (5 APR 2007 4:18pm)
Originally Posted By beacon (4 APR 2007 12:24pm)
This is another reason that Adventure Gamer makers need to embrace full 3D. This way, their adventure games can be made for consoles and be accessible to a larger market.
I think things like this are how we are killing adventure games. The whole idea behind adventure games was to have good interactive stories with a few puzzles that where easy to control so as to not distract from the story. By trying to convert them to something they were never ment to be we will loose them all together.
All of that is possible in full 3D. It will just take a good developer to make it happen.
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| 6 APR 2007 at 4:48pm |
jalexSchattenjger
Posts : 2503
Joined: 5 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | Yes you are right, it is and I have seen some pretty good examples on this too. It was the direct control and poor keyboard control that you see in games made for consoles and ported over to the PC that I thought you were talking about. This works ok for actions games but I have never seen an adventure game that worked good when this was done.
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| 6 APR 2007 at 5:09pm |
papillonSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 340
Joined: 3 JUL 2003
Status : Online | There's a bunch of problems at work.
1. "Game" stores don't like stocking PC games because at the moment, a huge amount of their profit comes from trade in used games. They can sell a console game for full price, buy it back for $5, and sell it again for only a few dollars less than full price. It's a huge profit area.
But because of their contracts with PC game suppliers - NOT because of 'copyright law' but because of contracts and agreements - they can't sell used PC games. Any shelf space given over to PCs is automatically less profitable for them.
2. PC game developers are struggling because they're spending massive budget and getting little return. See the above 'shelf space' problem. If a PC game isn't a massive huge hyped-to-the-extreme everybody-wants-it game, it probably won't reach a game store AT ALL unless it's preordered.
Now add to that the support problems of trying to maintain a PC game on a zillion different builds and operating systems and graphics cards that are full of bizarre errors you couldn't possibly have predicted.
Then take all that, while you're pouring money down the drain, and add piracy. Piracy is IMO not as big a problem as people think it is - but if you are a game developer who is already PISSED OFF about how badly your business is going, every single person you see stealing your hard work makes your veins pop.
... The funny thing is, if it weren't for the efforts to prevent piracy, problem one wouldn't be occurring in the first place.
3. Okay, so after point 2, we have PC developers who are frothing with rage. They attempt to switch to digital distribution. But because they are frothing with rage and blame piracy for it, they make digital distribution PAINFUL. Many people have already posted about the nightmares they've had trying to get downloadable games to work. Some work well. Many have problems. Especially for adventure games because modern adventure games tend to be BIG. Download-only just isn't a good method for getting a game that's over 300MB. Really. It isn't.
So what do you get?
You get a PC market that's shifting to digital, but you also get the strong upswing of the "casual games" market, games that are easy to download.
Embracing full 3d will not do the PC adventure game market any good. It may get you more adventure-style console games, and if they're really huge successes you'll see PC ports of them. But the best way to get a lot more PC adventure games is to *scale them back*, make them something that CAN fit in the downloadable space. 250MB games instead of 2GB games.
[url=http://whineaboutgames.blogspot.com]I Whine About Games[/url]&&&&[url=http://www.hanakogames.com]Anime Games[/url]
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| 6 APR 2007 at 5:26pm |
old ladyIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 5
Joined: 22 MAY 2006
Status : Online | Ilive in the UK and have the same problem in finding adventure games in shops so buy on-line.
One success story for game developers must be Burrow Hill. I saw an ad for this game in my local library and bought it in line. Matt Clarke, the game developer lives very near me and brought it round in person This game was so good and got such good reviews that it is now on sale at amazon and the other on-line stores. If the game is good enough it will find the market
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| 7 APR 2007 at 8:55am |
KarstenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 347
Joined: 23 SEP 2006
Location: DK
Status : Offline | I'm sorry to hear this - that where you live adventure games doesn't seem to make it into the game shops .
However, for some reason, one of the biggest gaming chains in Denmark, EB Games Shop, have plenty of adventure games. And I think it began a year ago, where I bought Keepsake and Runaway 1 there.
I since have bought Barrow Hill, Secret Files: Tunguska, Runaway 2 and some older adventure games there too. (in the buy 3 for 2 price section).
Last, I visited, I also saw Broken Sword 4, Delaware St. John 1+2 (in the doubleplack), and Sherlock Holmes: The Awakening. (if I discover they are hidden, I usually try to re-arrange them so they get a better chance at being spotted .
When i walked into the shop/store, much to my surprise, the first thing that caught my eye was:
Runaway 2. (yaahhh). (I think the manager of the store is into adventure games as much as I am...)
Anyway, I talked to the manager about their buying policy. He told me that all decisions about buying games and which game to buy for the chain (EB) was done from the main office. I suspect they have a person who does all the shopping for games. And apparently, this person is on the lookout for good adventure games as well as for the good fps, rts and other games as well. Sadly, Paradise, Das Eulemberg-Experiment (Martin Mystere?) and Secrets of Da Vinci didn't seem to make it - to Denmark at all. (and that's part of the reason why I buy more & more (adventure) games over the internet.
However, in this boutique/shop/store, the pc games are now moved all the way in the back, while one of the walls are featuring PS2/PS3/Gameboy (advance) games, and the other wall features PSP/Wii/XBOX360/Nintendo DS/ games.
As for the console working right out of the box, this may have been true in the olden days. But with the advent (or introduction) of Xbox Live etc. we tend to see more & more console games that need patches - after release. (I've been told that pc games in the 1980's and the 1990's didn't require as much patching as today, since the games back then needed to be finished, before you shipped or released them. And if you needed to get a patch, you sent your floppy disk in, and then you had to wait for 6-8 weeks to get your floppy disk back :shudder: ---- ).
Anyway, EB games in Denmark seem to have some adventure games on their shelves...
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