If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the
FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to
register or
login before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
| 4 APR 2007 at 4:30am |
nytimesguyPrivate Detective
Posts : 684
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By lilly (31 MAR 2007 3:44am)
I, for one, actually enjoy the idea of an interactive movie, if it's executed as brilliantly as Dreamfall was.
And therein lies the rub (for me anyway). I didn't buy DreamFall to enjoy an interactive movie (which I also would enjoy), I bought it to immerse myself in, enjoy and most of all play an adventure game.
Actually, I don't have a problem with a game that's mainly interactive movie, if it's interactive enough. Look at The Lost Express. There are only a handful of puzzles in the game. But it's such a fascinating game to explore with such interesting characters and a fascinating story that it's still one of my favorite games. With Dreamfall, I found the characters less interesting than in The Longest Journey (which I loved, and which I though had good puzzles - not Day of the Tentacle good, but better than a lot of games), I found the stealth a pain and the fighting a waste and the puzzles nothing but fetch quests. And while the story was for the most part great, the ending totally ruined it for me (and not, as someone suggested, because of issues particular to games; I also hated the cliffhangers in the second Star Wars movie and the second of Anne Rice's vampire novels).
An easy game with a great story is fine with me. A game with poorly designed gameplay, which Dreamfall had throughout, and a story that screeches to a halt with all questions unanswered, just aggravates me.
Very pretty game, though, with good dialogue, but I just don't think that's enough.
Charles - Game Theorist
|
| 5 APR 2007 at 7:30am |
JoGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Location: AU, Qld.
Status : Offline | Obviously everyone has differing opinions as to what they feel makes an adventure game immersable and enjoyable.
I have to admit that I started Dreamfall without any great expectations because of some of the comments I'd read. As it happened I absolutely loved the game and enjoyed it more than TLJ. Unlike some of you, TLJ has never been my favourite game, on my 10 best games list perhaps, but certainly not the very best - that place, as always with me, goes to GK2 which to my way of thinking was and still is the most immersable game I've ever played. Just a case of "horses for courses"!
Personally I rather liked the fact that Dreamfall was more of an interactive movie for a change, however I wouldn't like to think that this is the way all adventure games are going - and I doubt very much if they are.
I'd certainly agree that the fight sequences weren't really necessary and some of the creeping around was a bit irritating in one place in particuclar but I can't honestly say that the lack of real puzzles bothered me.
I make no comment on the ending at the moment, suffice to say that it certainly wasn't what I was expecting and one can only hope that there really is going to be a sequel that will at least round the game off.
|
| 5 APR 2007 at 9:19pm |
ScarecrowIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 28
Joined: 26 MAR 2007
Status : Online | I'm not sure if I should continue defending this game or not. It's obvious that my opinion is in the minority, but I just hate the idea of such an amazing, spellbinding game going unappreciated.
Someone mentioned that the characters weren't very engaging. I have to disagree. Show me one other game whose protagonist is suffering from ennui and borderline depression at the beginning of the game. It had almost no impact on the plot, but its inclusion made Zoe so much more compelling for me.
And then there was Kian's slowly emerging ambivalence towards his duty (which, granted, would have benefited from some more screen time). And, of course, April's cynical transformation into the hero who is not only reluctant (as she was in The Longest Journey), but downright angry.
Characters like those are usually reserved for novels; it was a pleasant surprise to find them in a video game.
|
| 6 APR 2007 at 4:56pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Scarecrow (5 APR 2007 9:19pm)
I'm not sure if I should continue defending this game or not. It's obvious that my opinion is in the minority, but I just hate the idea of such an amazing, spellbinding game going unappreciated.
Um, I take it you realise that explaining why you happen to like the game is not going to change anyone else's opinion of it? So people disagree with you. Deal with it. Personally I get royally pissed off when I see a half-arsed, half-finished interactive movie like Dreamfall lauded as a great adventure game, but I don't whinge about it because I realise that other people have different tastes from me and may not have the same criteria for what makes a good game.
I'm not going to go into all the reasons why I don't like Dreamfall, as I've already done it in this thread and over at Adventure Gamers, but I'm fed up of seeing people assume that anyone who doesn't share their personal likes and dislikes must have something wrong with them. You do not have some kind of divine mission to make everyone 'see the light' where Dreamfall is concerned, and frankly, the idea that your personal view of the game is the only 'right' one is pretty damn arrogant in the first place. If you like the game, that's fine; please do the rest of us the courtesy of allowing us to make up our own minds.
|
| 8 APR 2007 at 12:57pm |
| Deleted User | Scarecrow, don't let Ksandra scare you off! She used to post interesting stuff but nowadays she's always pissed.
PS: pissed off as in "royally pissed off"
|
| 8 APR 2007 at 3:03pm |
mclaugbIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 56
Joined: 10 DEC 2005
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Betje (8 APR 2007 12:57pm)
Scarecrow, don't let Ksandra scare you off! She used to post interesting stuff but nowadays she's always pissed.
Do you mean 'pissed' in the US > or UK [smiley=beer_buds.gif] vernacular...?
"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there." L.P. Hartley
|
| 8 APR 2007 at 4:44pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | I object! I am entirely sober [s]most of the time[/s].
|
| 8 APR 2007 at 10:10pm |
jalexSchattenjger
Posts : 2503
Joined: 5 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | I agree with Ksandra. We don't all like and dislike the same things in a game and we should not try to change what someone else might like and dislike. I have seen many times where someone said this game is a piece of crap just because they didn't like it. We all have to play the game and make up our own minds if we like it or not. The same goes for reviews. I recently bought Tunguska after reading a review that was not very good and I thought it was an excelent game. We don't work for MS and we don't have to say "do it my way or not at all". LOL
As for Dreamfall I didn't buy it because I didn't think I would like tha control system so I can't say anything abaout it.
|
| 9 APR 2007 at 3:23pm |
The WolfboySorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 304
Joined: 16 FEB 2006
Status : Online | Originally Posted By jalex (8 APR 2007 10:09pm)
I agree with Ksandra. We don't all like and dislike the same things in a game and we should not try to change what someone else might like and dislike. I have seen many times where someone said this game is a piece of crap just because they didn't like it. We all have to play the game and make up our own minds if we like it or not. The same goes for reviews. I recently bought Tunguska after reading a review that was not very good and I thought it was an excelent game. We don't work for MS and we don't have to say "do it my way or not at all". LOL
As for Dreamfall I didn't buy it because I didn't think I would like tha control system so I can't say anything abaout it.
Phrased very well
As for the controls, that was one of my biggest concerns as well. After about an hour or so of playing, I was still struggling with it. Eventually though I managed to get used to it, and found that it worked quite intuitively and gave the visual aspect of the game a bit more flexibility, letting you get into the atmosphere quite a bit more.
It doesn't make the game any better, in my opinion, but it's one of the hurdles that, once you clear, works out quite a bit better.
|
| 22 APR 2007 at 10:34pm |
ScarecrowIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 28
Joined: 26 MAR 2007
Status : Online | So, uh, everybody just assumed that I was trying to force people to see the game the same way that I do? Nice of you to make such misguided assumptions.
ANYWAY... I'm not trying to attack anyone else's opinion of this game - far from it. I just found a thread in which EVERYONE was casting the game in a negative light, and I decided to forward a positive opinion, because I think a game like this needs someone to defend it every now and then. I accept that a lot of you adventure purists don't like it, but I think that some people dislike it for the wrong reasons. No, it's not like your typical adventure game, but since when is that a bad thing? It's a thoughtful, compelling and very epic story that had me, at least, stuck to my chair for several days.
I really don't see how one can claim that by defending the game, I'm attempting to convert people to my way of thinking, and yet by attacking it, you aren't doing the exact same thing. That argument is an obvious fallacy.
|
| 23 APR 2007 at 2:03pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | My problem was not with the fact that you were defending the game, but with the implicit assumption that if you rave about it for long enough, everyone else is going to come around to your point of view. Regardless of whether you meant your post to sound like that, that is how it came across. This discussion has been dead for nearly two weeks now, so I'm not going to take it up again, but next time you might want to avoid making posts that seem to imply you can 'convert' everyone else to liking the same games you like.
|
| 23 APR 2007 at 3:35pm |
| Deleted User | For the life of me, I can't see anything wrong with people wanting to defend their favorite game or raving about it in a forum devoted to Adventure Game Discussion. I'd even go further... I don't see anything wrong with people criticising games.
|
| 23 APR 2007 at 3:48pm |
nytimesguyPrivate Detective
Posts : 684
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Betje (23 APR 2007 3:35pm)
For the life of me, I can't see anything wrong with people wanting to defend their favorite game or raving about it in a forum devoted to Adventure Game Discussion. I'd even go further... I don't see anything wrong with people criticising games.
If those two activities were prohibited the board would get about a third as many posts as it does now.
When people are deeply affected by something it feels magical and they want everyone to feel that magic and are perplexed and often upset when they don't. That magic can come from religion, video games, movies, or just meeting a really cool person who no one else seems to appreciate properly. I have often jumped to the defense of things I love, as when some misguided soul said Citizen Kane was a boring movie that might have been good when it came out but is now nothing but a creaky old 40s movie. So I totally support Scarecrow's attempts to defend Dreamfall. It doesn't mean I will be disuaded in considering it one of the most disappointing games ever made, but if it blew Scarecrow's mind then clearly it had worth to some people, and when it comes right down to it, if art effects a single person positively it can't be considered a complete failure.
Charles - Game Theorist
|
| 23 APR 2007 at 4:04pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | *Sigh* OK, let me try once more to make this absolutely clear: I do not have a problem with Scarecrow trying to defend Dreamfall. The issue I had was with one specific comment:
"It's obvious that my opinion is in the minority, but I just hate the idea of such an amazing, spellbinding game going unappreciated."
That, to me (and clearly some other people in the thread) suggested that he thought that if he went on arguing for long enough, people who didn't like the game would change their minds and come to 'appreciate' it as well. Not going to happen. Personally I've heard all the arguments in defence of Dreamfall, I quite understand why people like it, but it does not make a blind bit of difference to my own opinion of the game - and I resent the implication that I only fail to appreciate Dreamfall because I haven't yet come to understand its True Greatness. Hence my own post asking Scarecrow to "do us the courtesy of allowing us to make up our own minds."
|
| 23 APR 2007 at 11:36pm |
| Deleted User | So you've said 3 times already, Ksandra... I got it the first time, and clearly some other people in the thread got it too. The point is that where you see an attack on you and feel resentment, I only see disappointment and I do not feel attacked.
|
