| 3 FEB 2003 at 11:30am |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Good topic.
My take: I've played all of Lucasarts adventures and pretty much everything from Sierra (the ones I havn't played are considered average or bad like Urban Runner).
My impression is that Lucasarts always aimed for quality while Sierra aimed for quantity. I really like Sierra games, I even like those most people doesn't like Iceman, but I think at least an 80% of their products were quite weak. The only real highlights are the GK series and KQ6 and maybe some Larry chapters.
However, I don't believe every single Lucasarts adventure is a masterpiece but they're considerably better than Sierra's (generally speaking).
The fact is: Sierra was always a step ahead from their pairs with outstanding technology but their games seriously lacked.
Examples: KQ1 (very lame when compared with every single text-adventure of the era), KQ5, Phantasmagoria (I can hear them screaming) among others.
The exceptions are the ones I mentioned before.
The bottom line is: Lucasarts never produced a bad adventure (except maybe for MI4) and Sierra produced very bad ones. I think that's enough for saying that Lucasarts was an overall better company.
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 11:49am |
StammerGuild Master
Posts : 3894
Joined: 5 JAN 2003
Status : Online | Well Rael you have a point in what you say but i don't think that sierra has made so bad games!!!
It's just that if you compare them with some others they seem too weak :-/
Resistance is not futile, we're gonna win this thing, humankind is too good, we're not a bunch of under-achievers! We're gonna stand up, and we're gonna be human beings. We're going to get fired up about the real things, the things that matter! Creativity, and the dynamic human spirit that refuses to submit.
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 1:13pm |
| Deleted User | I fully agree with Rael, you can't compare Grim Fandango with Lighthouse, most Sierra games were hasty works.
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 1:13pm |
| Deleted User | Delphine!
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 1:14pm |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I used to love both companies but if I had to pick one this would be Sierra, because Lucasarts always made 'family' adventures while Sierra had a bigger variety. And apart from that, Sierra was the one that made Gabriel Knight
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 1:22pm |
| Deleted User | Seriously, I'm with Dimi but only because I grew up with Sierra titles. My first real game was SQ3 - do you know how hard it is to find a game to compete after playing that?
Future Wars by Delphine was one of my fave games, 2nd to SQ3, only spoilt by some of those amateur shooting sequences.
As for Lucasarts, they came a bit later, and I'm only just really discovering their stuff, which I've always wanted to play!
As for KQ, it's really geared towards kids and I remember the marketing was done that way too. It was basic, and text adventures back then were becoming far more compicated so naturally they'd have been better as Sierra was breaking new ground and experimenting.
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 2:28pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | definately Sierra (athough there isn't a single LA adv (except of course EFMI) that i didn't like a lot)... in order to avoid spending the rest of my life on this thread i won't go any deeper!
btw it kinda pisses me off saying Sierra after all the crap they did in the end (and are still doing)... but i must acknowledge them for being the company that brought me my best advs ever
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 5:25pm |
| Deleted User | Hey, I liked AVP2 and Half Life! The rest was quite crud though.
Just wish they'd do some more stuff other than that and respect their roots more.
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 5:27pm |
GamaholicPrivate Detective
Posts : 724
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Status : Online | As a fairly new gamer, I am only now collecting the classic adventure games. So I now ask the experts:
Which Sierra Games are Must-Haves (other than the GK series)?
Which Sierra Games are not worth acquiring for any amount of money?
Which Lucas Arts Games are Must-Haves?
Which Lucas Arts Games are not worth acquiring for any amount of money?
That which makes one happy is not a waste of time
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 5:42pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Gamaholic (3 FEB 2003 5:26pm)
Which Sierra Games are Must-Haves (other than the GK series)?
all of them expect KQ8 and codename iceman, but REALLY MUST HAVES:
Larry 1-5
Space Quest 1-5
Police Quest 1 (haven't played 4)
King's Quest 3-6 (and 1 for historic reasons!)
Gold Rush
Conquests of Camelot/Longbow
Laura Bow Mysteries (Colonel's Bequest, Dagger Of Amon Ra)
Quest For Glory 1 (haven't played 3)
and of course
The Manhunters (not really advs, but amazing games)
Which Sierra Games are not worth acquiring for any amount of money?
King's Quest 8 (and Codename Iceman only as a collection filler for less that $5!)
Which Lucas Arts Games are Must-Haves?
haven't played The Dig yet, but all the others except........
Which Lucas Arts Games are not worth acquiring for any amount of money?
Escape From Monkey Island (MI4) [img]http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/icons/boo.gif[/img] [img]http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/icons/boo.gif[/img] [img]http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/icons/boo.gif[/img]
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 5:44pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By monkeybone (3 FEB 2003 5:25pm)
Hey, I liked AVP2 and Half Life! The rest was quite crud though.
Just wish they'd do some more stuff other than that and respect their roots more.
yes you said that right... wouldn't mind if sierra released AVP2 and HL or whatever, as long as they didn't HUMILIATE the adv genre like that (KQ8 and possibly SQ7)
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 5:48pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | The best adventures of all time are either made by Lucas Arts or by Sierra.
I regard the above statement as true with just a few exceptions.
Apart from that I don't like any company better than another.
Ok...my most favorite adventures are more Lucas Arts than Sierra, but that's just because I didn't play all the Sierra games.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 5:52pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Elfstone (3 FEB 2003 5:47pm)
The best adventures of all time are either made by Lucas Arts or by Sierra.
I regard the above statement as true with just a few exceptions.
true when it comes to gfx advs... when it comes to ALL advs then 3 more companies are added (level 9, magnetic scrolls, infocom)
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 6:16pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Aya_Brea (3 FEB 2003 5:51pm)
true when it comes to gfx advs... when it comes to ALL advs then 3 more companies are added (level 9, magnetic scrolls, infocom)
I already heard you coming...
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 6:24pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Elfstone (3 FEB 2003 5:47pm)
The best adventures of all time are either made by Lucas Arts or by Sierra.
I regard the above statement as true with just a few exceptions.
I don't :
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 6:52pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Rael (3 FEB 2003 6:23pm)
I don't :
Do I care?
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 7:02pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Elfstone (3 FEB 2003 6:51pm)
Do I care?
You should.
Ahem!
Beneath A Steel Sky
Broken Sword
I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream
Dragonsphere -> better than any KQ game except the sixth
And, of course, what Aya said.
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 7:17pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Rael (3 FEB 2003 7:01pm)
You should.
Ahem!
Beneath A Steel Sky
Broken Sword
I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream
Dragonsphere -> better than any KQ game except the sixth
And, of course, what Aya said.
Beneath A Steel Sky - played it, but there is an error in the game and I can't get far into it
Broken Sword - it's a good game, but honestly, it's not among the very best for me, but the story is certainly brilliant
I have no mouth - have yet to play it
Dragonsphere - you are right, it's a very fine game, but I liked KQ6 and KQ7 more, sorry
Yes, yes, I promise to play Level 9 and Magnetic Scrolls sometime soon. Hmm, I feel like playing an IF now...
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 7:43pm |
Freddie_PharkasSpace Cadet
Posts : 114
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Status : Online | (the ones I havn't played are considered average or bad like Urban Runner).
Urban Runner average or bad?? Thats outrageous! Thats preposterous! Who dares besmirch the legend, the timeless classic that is Urban Runner. Rael, you have shattered the myth......oh wait, Urban Runner did stink. My bad.
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 7:54pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Freddie...please stop! >
I have Urban Runner here lying on my desk and I can't play it...
Oops, didn't finish reading your comment! Bad habit.
Is it that bad?
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 7:58pm |
| Deleted User | I was hoping this discussion would concentrate on pre-1996 adventure games mostly. Sierra today is not representative of old Sierra, and the Lucas empire also lost its high quality standards ever since The Phantom Menace...
Half-Life and AVP2 were certainly good games, but they are only published by Sierra, not designed by them. Comparing these to classic LucasArts adventure games is not fair.
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| 4 FEB 2003 at 2:22am |
NellieSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 359
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Lucasarts consistently produced classics, and even the ones that weren't superb were above average.
Sierra produced lots and lots of games, but there was a much thinner spreading of quality. Some games were classics, some were average, some were rubbish. And sometimes Sierra's games just felt lazy (note the adventure-making-by-numbers KQ2), and I don't believe 'lazy' was in Lucasarts vocabulary.
Lucasarts took care to avoid frustrating the player by eradicating dead-ends and keeping deaths to a minimum. Sierra kept dead-ends and unfair sudden deaths in their games for years (the fools ). After the addition of the 'Try Again' button, the unexpected deaths became a lot of fun, of course .
On the other hand, Sierra made a more interesting variety of games - comedy, horror, fairy tale, RPG/adventure hybrids, etc. They also made games where it was possible to 'win' without having seen everything in the game, which I think is great. I love the idea that I can discuss GK3 with somebody and start talking about a scene that they didn't see, and they can start talking about a scene that I didn't see - the player's experience of the adventure is unique (to a certain degree) based on the choices they make! Excellent.
So, in conclusion... er... I don't know. But here's a thought that just came to me...
If Sierra had had higher production values and more drive to produce quality products, they could have made adventures that matched/exceeded the standard of LA's (eg, Gabriel Knight 1). But Lucasarts would have had to have an entire overhaul of attitude to make the type of game Sierra made.
In other words, Sierra could have done what Lucasarts did, if they'd just been more focussed on quality (and had better writers), but Lucasarts could never do what Sierra did.
[b]£1bn -[/b] Amount British government has pledged to paying off debt of poorest nations over next 10 years.&&&&[b]£5bn -[/b] Amount British government has already spent on Iraq campaign.
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| 4 FEB 2003 at 7:48am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Gamaholic (3 FEB 2003 5:26pm)
Which Sierra Games are not worth acquiring for any amount of money?
There's far too many of them!
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| 4 FEB 2003 at 7:58am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Elfstone (3 FEB 2003 7:17pm)
Broken Sword - it's a good game, but honestly, it's not among the very best for me, but the story is certainly brilliant
Not among the best? Personally I think it's better than every Sierra games I've played (including the GK series)
Dragonsphere - you are right, it's a very fine game, but I liked KQ6 and KQ7 more, sorry
KQ7 better than Dragonsphere, personally I think all Cry games are better than KQ7
BTW: I bet you only drink Coke too. your prejudice keeps you from some very good games
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