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| 2 FEB 2003 at 2:33pm |
| Deleted User | Soz, it's all opinion, isn't it? One man's something is another womans something else! I thought Atlantis 3 was an incredibly shoddily made and poorly acted piece with bad design and puzzles that didn't make sense.
You seem to be entirely missing the point that most of the posters here are making.
Either that or the other way around! I think opinions are valid - everyone's is, even the people's I disagree with. To them, something I believe is bad is good and that's their perogative. But I won't listen to people I don't trust on certain things, and if something is known to be bad I don't have to trouble myself for it.
We look at the game features - and if we reckon there's a chance we WILL like it - we buy it and make our own minds up without regard to what other people think.
Yeah, but game features do not a good game make. There are games out there that you may not like, like Tomb Raider or Myst, but there's not choice other than to say they've been well made and do their job successfully in the face of popular opinion.
It's like Justin Timberlake - I hate his music, but I respect the fact that people like him although I can't see why. But a pop fan wouldn't buy his music if they didn't like him, would they, just because he's pop?
I cannot imagine there is anyone who will buy a game without even looking at the cover to see what sort of game it is, simply because it's classed as an adventure.
Exactly! If small screenshots of graphics and marketing hype is what you believe you deserve to play so-so games for the rest of your days. I hope I'm not being offensive here, and you see my point.
I'm in the fortunate position of having the time AND the money to indulge my passion for adventure games.
But many of us aren't. Kudos to you, but I have other things to do like earn money, go on holidays and indulge my other passions! I simply don't have the time to waste on bad games!
The only two I have hated got good reviews from sites whose opinions I respect.
But was the general consensus that they were bad? Two sites? Which ones were they and what games?
I can't understand how anyone could blindly go with the opinion of the masses without finding out for themselves. I find that reminiscent of your Hitler analogy - masses of people believing the trash they are fed.
I believe that it can get out of hand, yes, and that led to Cryo dissolving in a mass of bland titles they ploughed money into.
But when a game is good, the demo's good and people want more as individuals with expectations, then a game does well - a game that does well doesn't mean that it is a bad game!
The thing is, when a bad game does well on hype the backlash comes thick and fast... For instance, was Barry Sonnenfield rewarded when rehashing the same formula with a lacklustre film with Wild Wild West? Nope.
What is people's problems with popularity? I don't play trash! I choose things very carefully, I don't play so-so games, and I make decisions very carefully on what to get next!
Of course sometimes you buy a game in a series simply because the previous ones were good - Simon the Sorcerer springs to mind. In addition - I read good reviews before Simon 3D was available here. I hated it with a vengance! So much for reviews.
In all the magazines I've read, from the opinion I've got on this forum, I haven't heard one good thing about that game. So I'm not going to get it. I read up, even if I like a series.
Unreal 2 has got some OK-ish reviews, I'm having second thoughts, but I'm going to get it because I like pure shooters and that's what it does, and apparently quite well. But I am having second thoughts.
How can you possibly know something is bad until you've tried it for yourself?
Demo's. And if I trust someone. Circular arguement. I don't have the money for it.
And even then - it might only be 'bad' for you - others may love it.
True, but to which percentage? I don't know masses of Post Mortem lovers, and most people that have played it here thought it was merely OK to poor. I played the demo, and thought it was rubbish.
[quote[I can't imagine why anyone would want to play an on-line game, interacting with thousands of others online - yet they seen to be a burgeoning genre.
Knowing this - I am unlikely to buy/subscribe to an online game.
Yup. That's the point! You don't like that genre! You are arguing against yourself - how do you know if you haven't tried it? Thing is, they could be really good games if they're so popular! And the reviews of Asherons Call 2 are great, as is Neverwinter and Everquest! So I'd try them! I'd hardly play one where people have bad opinions of it, am I?
Incidentally - I liked Atlantis 3.
It was different - not as I expected after Atlantis 2 -
but that's progress for you...
See top. I read the reviews that I trusted, all were bad, I got it anyway and was dissapointed. Lucky it only cost me fiver, eh?
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| 2 FEB 2003 at 5:20pm |
JPSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 217
Joined: 24 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By monkeybone (2 FEB 2003 8:23am)
JP bought Mystery Of The Druids. I played the demo, read people's opinions, checked out the cover and came very close to buying it, but all the negative stuff surrounding it stopped me from getting it. And I'm glad I did.
I don't go to the cinema to watch every Jack Nicholson film just because Jack Nicholson in it. I don't buy every animation DVD (I'm an animation freak) just because it's animated. Likewise, I don't just buy and adventure games just because there's a lack of them.
The thing is, even though I bought Mystery of the Druids and it turned out to be a bad game I dont regret it. It could have turned out that I enjoyed it because I am a different individual from the people who reviewed it - unluckily for me it didnt turn out that way.
But I will do it again if I see a game that appeals to me and other people have judged it poorly
Bow down before the one you serve&&You're going to get what you deserve !
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| 2 FEB 2003 at 5:46pm |
| Deleted User | Fair do's. People do what they want!
Next time I won't be so harsh, but it's the way I feel about things! Perhaps it's got a lot to do with personal situations and such, availability of wealth and time and so on...
This could be a circular arguement!
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| 2 FEB 2003 at 5:53pm |
StammerGuild Master
Posts : 3894
Joined: 5 JAN 2003
Status : Online | send my regards to everyone (monkeybone)
[img]http://community.the-underdogs.org/smiley/armed/ar15.gif[/img]
Resistance is not futile, we're gonna win this thing, humankind is too good, we're not a bunch of under-achievers! We're gonna stand up, and we're gonna be human beings. We're going to get fired up about the real things, the things that matter! Creativity, and the dynamic human spirit that refuses to submit.
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| 2 FEB 2003 at 6:01pm |
| Deleted User | "Where does he get those wonderful toys?"
"This town needs an enema!"
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| 2 FEB 2003 at 6:29pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By monkeybone (2 FEB 2003 2:33pm)
Soz, it's all opinion, isn't it? One man's something is another womans something else!
Can you think of an instance where this isn't true?
What is people's problems with popularity?
I don't have a problem with something being popular - my "problem" is that from past experience I know that just because something is popular there is no guarantee whatsoever that I will like it. And vice versa. This of course puts me in a difficult position because I can't rely on popularity as an indicator of what I should buy. But hey, no one said life would be simple.
True, but to which percentage? I don't know masses of Post Mortem lovers, and most people that have played it here thought it was merely OK to poor. I played the demo, and thought it was rubbish.
I played the game and I thought it was pretty good. Nice complex story, cool cutscenes and some good puzzles. Loved the alchemy puzzle. Others didn't like it? So what. I'm me, not them.
I forgot my sig.
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| 2 FEB 2003 at 7:44pm |
dombrewerGuild Master
Posts : 3103
Joined: 19 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | I don't think anyone bothered to read my last (long) post on this topic because I address points brought up since.
The Hitler analogy was mine and sought to demonstrate that popularity of the masses does not necessarily make something good.
Basically what most people are saying here is we have a right to try a game if we're interested in it even if all the reviews and popular opinion say it's cack. Quite often we prove ourselves right, sometimes not.
Monkeybone is saying the main reason he doesn't do this is monetary.
So we're just arguing about Monkeybone's economic situation? ???
p.s. having ignored my post I hearby withdraw my previous compliment about Monkeybone.....
[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/detective.gif[/img][b]Playing:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/blahblah.gif[/img][b]Reading:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/whistle.gif[/img][b]Listening:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/indie.gif[/img][b]Watching:[/b]
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 7:06am |
| Deleted User | MOnkeybone wrote:
Yup. That's the point! You don't like that genre! You are arguing against yourself - how do you know if you haven't tried it?
Wrong. old chap. I HAVE tried the genre - and hate it.Despite my chums at work totally freaking over it.
That's what I mean about making my own mind up -
and I have to earn a living too - I'm not a millionairess (yet ) -
I'm just lucky that I get well paid, don't have expensive tastes - and have LOADS of time when I'm at work to play games.
Doesn't it make you sick?
Dombrewer - sorry - I must have seen the Hitler quote on your answer to Monkeybone - I'll read your entire post carefully when I get back online (I'm haveing powerpack problems!)
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 7:19am |
| Deleted User | dombrewer - "compliment" - not exactly! My economic situation isn't at all that bad, I just don't like to waste money on things is all... And that Hitler analogy doesn't really work when you look at the complex history surrounding his rise to power! Games and the rise of Fascism are two things that don't really mix...
I guess my argument is mired in a sea of complexity, so I'm going to give up! My basis was "why fund bad developers by purchasing merely OK to bad games". Or, buying them for the sake of it.
But there's too many issues - like hobbies, collectors for one that it's like trying to tell the tide to turn!
And Medicro - what is it that you do exactly that's so well paid and gives you so much time to play games? I wanna do it too! Is it a good job?
Ah, well - I've just finished another 200+ page storyboard, my hands are aching and there's money to be made. I'm off games-hunting!
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 7:26am |
| Deleted User | Monkeybone wrote:
And Medicro - what is it that you do exactly that's so well paid and gives you so much time to play games? I wanna do it too! Is it a good job?
HA - yes! It's the best job in the world!
Ships medic/radio operator -medicro.
Thing is - when you're working - it's often filled with long hours waiting for something to happen (or preferrably NOT to happen) - so I have to fill my time somehow.....
8 weeks at sea would drive you bonkers otherwise - especially working with all those men!!!!!
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 3:58pm |
dombrewerGuild Master
Posts : 3103
Joined: 19 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By monkeybone (3 FEB 2003 7:18am)
dombrewer - "compliment" - not exactly!
Now I know you didn't read my post, MB!
I'm talking about my previous post on the thread, dated Feb 1st.
Never mind
[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/detective.gif[/img][b]Playing:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/blahblah.gif[/img][b]Reading:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/whistle.gif[/img][b]Listening:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/indie.gif[/img][b]Watching:[/b]
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 5:29pm |
| Deleted User | dom - soz!
Medicro - and you get paid for that? That said, I draw cartoons and make jokes for a living... YEAH! OUR JOBS ROCK!
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| 3 FEB 2003 at 8:55pm |
| Deleted User | Not only that Monkeybone - my last trip was 8 weeks sailing up and down the longest fjord in Norway.
Stunningly beautiful, visited Glaciers, ancient churches, watched pods of killer whales -
and saw a wonderful display of the Northern Lights just north of trondheim on the night of my birthday - -
I keep having to pinch myself...
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| 5 FEB 2003 at 4:07pm |
HelenGuild Master
Posts : 3436
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | I only have this to say... I LIKED Mystery of the Druids. And I only buy what appeals to ME, good or bad reviews.
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| 6 FEB 2003 at 2:42am |
scoutPrivate Detective
Posts : 736
Joined: 2 NOV 2002
Status : Online | medicro said,
I keep having to pinch myself...
I CANNOT believe someone hasn't taken that line and ran with it....
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| 6 FEB 2003 at 2:40pm |
| Deleted User | Gamer wrote:
I only have this to say... I LIKED Mystery of the Druids. And I only buy what appeals to ME, good or bad reviews.
Good for you - my feelings exactly!
I reckon girlies are stronger minded than blokes -
we can make up our minds independently.....
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| 6 FEB 2003 at 4:12pm |
StammerGuild Master
Posts : 3894
Joined: 5 JAN 2003
Status : Online | I think you are right medicro i liked Mystery of the Druids but I can't put it in any of my top ten .
It had some strange riddles and many bugs :-/
Resistance is not futile, we're gonna win this thing, humankind is too good, we're not a bunch of under-achievers! We're gonna stand up, and we're gonna be human beings. We're going to get fired up about the real things, the things that matter! Creativity, and the dynamic human spirit that refuses to submit.
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| 10 FEB 2003 at 11:34pm |
ConMolSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 396
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I buy games because they are adventures and because its the only genre I like. Let me tell you that I toss more in the garbage than I actually finish. Every now and then I hit a gem that entertains me. I wish I liked other games - I have tried everything from Alice to Neverwinter Nights to Morrowind to Age of Mythology to Command and Conquer Red Alert. I suck at them. I so want to like them so I will have more to play - but I'm stuck combing the adventure sites for the latest Czech game.
So when someone is bored to tears by Syberia, they are probably the type that would love Morrowind or Unreal 2.
For those of us who only play adventures, our rating system is probably very different. If I compare Syberia to Atlantis or alot of the adventures that have come out recently - Syberia is much better. Even to the hard core reviewers in Computer Games and Gamespot have rated it in their top 10 for 2002 and thats saying alot when its compared to Battlefield 1942 and NOLF 2.
So I guess we all have a different point of reference.
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| 11 FEB 2003 at 12:32am |
JPSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 217
Joined: 24 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By ConMol (10 FEB 2003 11:33pm)
.
So when someone is bored to tears by Syberia, they are probably the type that would love Morrowind or Unreal 2.
I'm sorry, but that is bullplop!
I really didnt like Syberia - I personally thought there was no substance to it. I mean who actually cares if some lawyer is successful in her quest to buy a toy factory for a major corporation!!
It just isnt interesting.
Having said that, I cant think of anything worse than sitting down to a mindnumbing session of Unreal 2, although I do love Neverwinter Nights!
I know I'm getting on my high horse but you cant group people together like that because interests can be extremely varied.
Bow down before the one you serve&&You're going to get what you deserve !
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| 11 FEB 2003 at 7:52am |
| Deleted User | I cant think of anything worse than sitting down to a mindnumbing session of Unreal 2
HEY! I'm really enjoying it! Sure, it aint your genre, but that's no reason to put it down...
And besides, I liked both those games and thought NWN wasn't particularly good. I'm not arguing with your reasons for liking it, no sir, just an opinion.
This whole 3rd person RPG thing just doesn't kick it for me - little immersion, too text driven and it just feels loosely put together "like butter scraped over too much bread".
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| 11 FEB 2003 at 11:46am |
ConMolSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 396
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | JP, Unreal 2 was just an example...but you're right, alot of folks didn't like the story in Syberia and were bored. Alot of times I'm bored with an adventure at the start and have to plod through for awhile before it gets good. The Cameron Files games come to mind.
The part about traipsing through the same areas in Syberia being a point of contention in another post didn't mesh with me. There was tons of running around in TLJ and play Morrowind if you want to run around endlessly! I thought the areas were pretty self contained and easy to traverse...but I liked it so thats that.
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| 11 FEB 2003 at 12:07pm |
ConMolSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 396
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | And I meant to reiterate that I do think if you like more than one genre, you will be more discerning in your adventure game choices. But when I only buy adventures, I am always excited when I can play and not scream in frustration (read Mystery of the Mummy-very hard)! which has not been happening very much lately sigh).
I even bought MYST 3 out of desperation for something to play even though I'm not good at mechanical puzzles....what was I thinking? Now that I think about it, that story didn't grab me and tons of people loved it.
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| 16 FEB 2003 at 3:50pm |
nytimesguyPrivate Detective
Posts : 684
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | You can't always go by reviews. For example, if you read the reviews of the Xbox port of Myst III
http://www.gamerankings.com/htmlpages2/22610.asp
you would find many critics consider it one of the most terrible games ever made. While there were some problems with the port, mainly that it was hard to read documents since they stupidly didn't take into account the fact that people are sitting 8 feet from the TV and need more magnification), the people who hated it most were clearly just people who hated adventure games. I've enjoyed games that got mediocre reviews and hated games that got rave reviews.
There are certainly people here who give too much slack to bad adventure games, but if all you play are adventure games and there are so few of them, it's good if you can enjoy each one.
Charles - Game Theorist
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| 16 FEB 2003 at 5:40pm |
| Deleted User | But at what cost?
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