If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the
FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to
register or
login before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.
| 9 SEP 2006 at 2:02pm |
nytimesguyPrivate Detective
Posts : 684
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Elfstone (9 SEP 2006 12:52pm)
I was taught it that way in school (I think) by an English teacher.
story - what the medium is about, what its goal is
plot - how the medium gets the story across, the way it is told
You could also say that a story is good, but the execution (plot) is not well done.
In the world of film I find it harder to define, though. Plot is everything from cinematography to editing. But what exactly is "story"? The script and the writing? I'd say that could be "plot", too. Probably a summary of a movie best describes the pure "story". Anyway, story is faster to describe than plot, simply because the plot is everything while story is just the idea of something.
Googled around a bit and found some discussions of plot vs. story. My impression, which may be what you're saying but which I'll put in my own words, is story is the sequence of events but plot concerns the causes and undercurrents of those events. The example in an interesting article here is:
The king died and then the queen died (story).
The king died and then the queen died of grief (plot).
A shorter explanation I found is:
A story is what happens. Plot is how it happens.
And one last, a New York Times movie review says:
A plot consists of the events that you see when you watch the movie. A story consists of the events that you remember after the movie is over.
So I think I get it now (and am very happy to have learned this.
So I take it what you're saying is you feel the basic events of The Last Express don't strike you as particularly notable, but you enjoy the interplay between characters and motivations and that sort of thing. I don't think I quite agree. I would say the plot is more notable than the story, perhaps, but I think it's a good, solid story all the same. But admittedly I played the game years ago so I won't argue too vociferously on the point.
Charles - Game Theorist
|
| 9 SEP 2006 at 5:24pm |
Harriet_@_JAIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 90
Joined: 1 JUN 2003
Status : Online | "The story is what happens. Plot is how it happens." Excellent explanation. As I said earlier, I have always viewed plot/story as the same thing. But when clearly defined on a higher level they are quite different.
Harriet @ JA
|
| 9 SEP 2006 at 6:52pm |
MrLipidPrivate Detective
Posts : 666
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | I think of plot as structure and story as perspective. Plot is the arc that gets one from opening to finale. Story is the perspective from which the plot is viewed.
William Goldman explained it in terms of which actor's point of view is taken in order to present the events of the plot. Once the structure is in place, once it is clear what comes first, then second, and so on, it is possible to think about the perspective from which the plot may be examined. Put another way, whose point of view is the audience being asked to share as events unfold?
|
| 10 SEP 2006 at 12:19am |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By nytimesguy (9 SEP 2006 2:02pm)
The king died and then the queen died (story).
The king died and then the queen died of grief (plot).
Ah, yes! This is precisely the example our teacher used to explain the difference.
And this is exactly what I meant before, plain and simple:
A story is what happens. Plot is how it happens.
A plot consists of the events that you see when you watch the movie. A story consists of the events that you remember after the movie is over.
Yes, that is another way to put it. If you do a summary of a movie you will most likely describe the story, not so much the plot.
So I take it what you're saying is you feel the basic events of The Last Express don't strike you as particularly notable, but you enjoy the interplay between characters and motivations and that sort of thing. I don't think I quite agree. I would say the plot is more notable than the story, perhaps, but I think it's a good, solid story all the same. But admittedly I played the game years ago so I won't argue too vociferously on the point.
So have I. It seems that I forgot a whole lot of the story (the plot?). I though there was that which happened in Cronos going on here, too. That's Spoiler Alertvampirism, eternal life...Holy Grail kind of story
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
|
| 10 SEP 2006 at 12:12pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By nytimesguy (9 SEP 2006 2:02pm)
So I take it what you're saying is you feel the basic events of The Last Express don't strike you as particularly notable, but you enjoy the interplay between characters and motivations and that sort of thing. I don't think I quite agree. I would say the plot is more notable than the story, perhaps, but I think it's a good, solid story all the same. But admittedly I played the game years ago so I won't argue too vociferously on the point.
In Dutch we also have the distinction story-plot, we even stole the word plot from your English language, isn't that the same in German, elfstone? I've always thought of the plot as the bones and the story as bones + flesh. Not just the flesh.
PS: Meaning that I'm surprised at the definitions found by nytimesguy and his interpretation. But maye we Dutchies use the word plot differently. Once you've watched an entire play or movie, the plot is known. I would certainly not just describe afterwards what I saw happening.
|
| 10 SEP 2006 at 12:44pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Plot usually exists to execute the story. But story isn't there to give meaning to the plot.
Uh. Right.
:
Betje, we use those terms like they are used in English. They are not part of the German vocabulary, we just adopted them like we did with many English terms. Advertisement is often done in English. I can't describe it...just feels normal to use English terms instead of often bulkier German equivalents.
Plot and story, however, are not often used in professional German movie reviews. They rather say Geschichte or Handlung. While I think the latter is closer to "plot", it can also mean "story". There is no clear distinction as I see it. Probably if you say Handlungsablauf, it's almost there.
If I talk to someone about a movie I'd rather use "plot" than "story", just because it seems to me that we have our word for "story", but not a really good one for "plot".
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
|
