| 31 AUG 2006 at 7:42am |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3839
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | ...is the day I cannot get them except through a Digital Content Online Delivery System such as STEAM©.
I think. :-?
Anyone that has bought a legitimate copy of Half-Life 2 knows about STEAM©. I'm not going to try and explain what STEAM© is all about, but I will say that in order to crank up Half-Life 2 legally, you must be able to access the internet, and heaven help you if you are on dial-up.
If you are not familiar with STEAM©, then go here to read about it. A quote from this Wikipedia article:
"It is currently used to digitally distribute and manage games including Half-Life and Half-Life 2."
Basically, STEAM© is copy-protection, patching, updates, freebies, and more through this "content delivery system".
STEAM© has received a lot of criticism from the non-Adventure gaming community, mainly because when Half-Life 2 was released, it required activation via STEAM© in order to play the game.
STEAM© places a menu of games on your hard drive (again, read more about this in this article).
I am going to try to describe what I think Isn't. A. Very. Good. Thing.
Recently (within the last week or so), STEAM© has been putting game titles on the STEAM© menu. These menu items are "casual" game titles known as "PopCap" games. Bejeweled 2 is a PopCap game. There are lots and lots of these incidental (a word I'd rather use than "casual" PopCap games.
Okay, what STEAM© is doing is putting most, if not all, of the PopCap game titles in the STEAM© menu - even if the player has not bought or desires the games. They are sitting there - in a list - constantly reminding you "Hey! Buy me!" when you view your STEAM© menu.
Take a look at this picture. Scroll down to look at the bottom of the STEAM© menu. You see the greyed-out games that say "Not Installed"? Well, you cannot get rid of these game titles. They will just sit there - uninstalled or not.
A Forum called Steampowered is having a field day with this latest controversy (those moderators are having their work cut out for them, being accused of being unpaid lackeys for the game company, the Valve Corporation). The anti-PopCap gamers are upset, because they don't want these incidental game titles cluttering up their "top-tier" games menu.
In summary: I really don't know very much about STEAM© - nearly completely ignorant - because I bought Half-Life 2: Collector's Edition and still haven't unwrapped it (I would like to, because I would like to wear the T-shirt. How nerdy, huh), but I don't think I want to get involved in this content delivery system stuff.
Now I really want to just return the game (unwrapped) because there seems something really creepy about STEAM©. If I buy a game, I don't want to have to account to some corporation every time I play it or transfer the game between computers or whatever.
Personally, I don't think I would want to have to look at a list of titles I will never have interest in playing Just. Sitting. There.
So I ask, am I just being paranoid, or is this STEAM© stuff acceptable - in your opinion. Frankly, I can take or leave Half-Life 2 if I have to go through all this STEAM© "control". I also don't blame you if you find the whole thing plain silly.
Gosh, I'm glad I love Adventure games. I buy them, install them, play them. Only the rare instance of on-line activation. No STEAM© - yet. (?)
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 12:55pm |
Alan ThornSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 240
Joined: 8 JUN 2005
Status : Online | As both a developer and gamer I can entirely understand your concerns and frustrations regarding this issue. I make no secret of the fact I am a firm supporter of online distribution. Though, not in a form which requires users membership or requires an internet connection in order to play. For me, online distribution of a game means the user purchases a game, downloads the game and can then play at their own convenience on their home computers, whether online or not and whether they're a member of some vendor or not.
Online distribution of games opens up a whole new dimension to gaming not least because it's currently the most accessible and cost-effective medium for developers and gamers alike. Developers on all kinds of budgets can make a game and then allow users to download their products- mainstream games and indie games. I believe variety in gaming is to be celebrated, and never has this been more possible than now through online distribution. The diversity that can potentially be offered by some self published developers through online downloads is impressive, and a real treat for the consumer.
However, there still exist a large proportion of gamers who are either fearful or dismissive of online distribution because it's different from the traditional shopping-store model and because people grow attached to products that are tangible and can be held as opposed to those which cannot. Regardless, online distribution seems an inevitable future prospect, and I look forward to a time when users are much more ready to purchase a game for online download without apprehension. I also hope the nature of the internet remains in such a way that neutrality is given to developers, and that the future will continue to allow developers of all kinds and sizes to easily offer their products online without needless bureaucratic setbacks.
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 1:05pm |
trudysgardenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 312
Joined: 19 JUL 2005
Status : Online | Mark I totally agree with you. I don't want to play a game that strong arms me into loading God only knows what additional unwanted crap on my computer. Period.
happy trails,
Carolyn
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 1:30pm |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3839
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Alan Thorn (31 AUG 2006 12:54pm)
As both a developer and gamer I can entirely understand your concerns and frustrations regarding this issue. I make no secret of the fact I am a firm supporter of online distribution.
Oh, so am I, Alan. Please make no mistake - I thoroughly enjoy the fact that I can purchase a game on-line and download it to my hard drive. Otherwise, I wouldn't be able to play some of the best Adventure games ever made if I hadn't purchased them on-line and downloaded them. Although we have no nice box or professionally labeled discs, I wouldn't say that downloaded games are intangible objects. The games are the product.
But I do not want the inconvenience of having to be on-line to run and play the game.
As for the other services STEAM© offers, such as automatically patching a game before you begin to play - think of those on dial-up. Maybe they don't care to wait eight hours before they play something they are eager to play. I certainly wouldn't want to have to have a piano tuner over to the house every time I sat down to play the piano.
I've found it quite easy enough to go on-line if I need a patch for any game - if I decide it is what I want or need. Some patches aren't necessary and I've played games where I preferred the pre-patched version.
Purchasable game downloads are not the problem I have with STEAM©. I just don't want them hanging around all the time.
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 2:06pm |
MrLipidPrivate Detective
Posts : 666
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | While I well remember the original kerfuffle about STEAM, I recently installed STEAM in order to play The Ship. And was impressed. Process operated flawlessly with neither muss nor fuss.
Given the choice of STEAM or Starforce, there is no contest. I made the mistake once of buying a Starforce "protected" game and will never do it again. As for STEAM, if I see something on it that I like, I would buy it without hesitation.
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 2:24pm |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5540
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | Fortunately we adventure games are so reactionary, we'll never accept something like this. (I knew my stodginess was good for something.) :
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 4:06pm |
StilerJourneyman
Posts : 1477
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, TN
Status : Offline | I have to say, I love steam.
First off, you do NOT have to be online to play a game. Steam allows you to play games offline.
Secondly, you can easily make a back-up of a steam game onto a cd/dvd if you wish aswell (it's built into steam).
Aswell, you really only have to be online to:
1. Buy the game
2. Download the game.
Now the thing is.....if you were doing the above why does it bother you? I can understand people who want to play a game but don't have an internet connection/high speed internet and the game isn't available either through a mail order or via the retail stores. However that isn't Valve's fault, it's up to the developer if they wish to offer their games via the other ways.
Now I'll tell you why I like steam:
1. Steam, as a delivery system helps indie developers a ton. It cuts out having to depend on a publisher for your sole means of making money aswell as fighting for shelf space. evelopers get more money from sales vs using the older means of a publisher.
2. It allows you to easily patch games automatically for the customers (they can uncheck the auto patch if they wish, etc).
3. No cd's to worry about. No cd's to lose or game keys to get lost. I don't know about any of you but I've had some discs go bad on me, and it sucks having to re-buy a game you already bought before. With steam the games are tied to your account, not your computer. You can download any game you ever bought with that account aslong as you login with it, on any computer. So if you travel and forget to bring a game you're screwed, but with steam you can d/l it again if it's not on that computer.
4. Advertising. Do you know how many people use steam? tooooooooooons. When a small/indie developer releases a game via steam it's a great way to get publicity. Easier/cheaper then going through a major publisher, which even then quite a few games have had some bad advertising even when using a major publisher and such.
I do admit, having the popcap games on your steam list sucks, and hopefully they do indeed allow people to take it off. However as far as developers releasing games via steam goes I don't see a huge problem with it, I think it's great for indie/smaller developers and I hope more people make use of it in the future, I know I'll support it.
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 4:09pm |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3839
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | In its defense, STEAM© offers some advantages to the gamer - demos, free games, updates, etc. and Starforce offers nothing like that.
But STEAM© seems to want to start "proliferating" gamers computers - and I think it's nothing but spamming.
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 4:16pm |
StilerJourneyman
Posts : 1477
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, TN
Status : Offline | Really, it's just some games down in the "Games not installed list." I never look at them anyways....besides, there were plenty of games in said list before the pop cap games, depending on what you had installed/didn't. Though I agree, it'd be nice to remove them from your menu since you're probally not interested in the first place.
As far as patching goes (Since it doesn't seem like you knew )
All you have to do is right click a game>properties>updates. Click the box there and it has an option to "o not automatically update this game," then bingo, no more auto updates for it.
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 5:46pm |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3839
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Stiler (31 AUG 2006 4:05pm)
First off, you do NOT have to be online to play a game. Steam allows you to play games offline.
But don't you have to "sign in" first?
Originally Posted By Stiler (31 AUG 2006 4:05pm)
Secondly, you can easily make a back-up of a steam game onto a cd/dvd if you wish as well (it's built into steam).
Not everyone has a DVD or CD-ROM ± RW unit and even if they did, some gamers don't want to go through the hassle (no matter how easy it is to do).
Originally Posted By Stiler (31 AUG 2006 4:05pm)
1. Steam, as a delivery system helps indie developers a ton. It cuts out having to depend on a publisher for your sole means of making money as well as fighting for shelf space. Developers get more money from sales vs. using the older means of a publisher.
But can't developers sell and "send off" (via the internet) their games using a Paypal payment system nearly as easily?
Originally Posted By Stiler (31 AUG 2006 4:05pm)
2. It allows you to easily patch games automatically for the customers (they can uncheck the auto patch if they wish, etc).
Okay.
Originally Posted By Stiler (31 AUG 2006 4:05pm)
3. No cd's to worry about. No cd's to lose or game keys to get lost. I don't know about any of you but I've had some discs go bad on me, and it sucks having to re-buy a game you already bought before. With steam the games are tied to your account, not your computer. You can download any game you ever bought with that account as long as you login with it, on any computer. So if you travel and forget to bring a game you're screwed, but with steam you can d/l it again if it's not on that computer.
Okay.
Originally Posted By Stiler (31 AUG 2006 4:05pm)
4. Advertising. Do you know how many people use steam? tooooooooooons. When a small/indie developer releases a game via steam it's a great way to get publicity. Easier/cheaper then going through a major publisher, which even then quite a few games have had some bad advertising even when using a major publisher and such.
This sounds as if it may be the most positive thing about STEAM©. Their client database.
Originally Posted By Stiler (31 AUG 2006 4:05pm)
I do admit, having the popcap games on your steam list sucks, and hopefully they do indeed allow people to take it off.
Kind of a minor issue, but still - a lot of non-Adventure gamers are taking offense.
Originally Posted By Stiler (31 AUG 2006 4:16pm)
As far as patching goes (Since it doesn't seem like you knew)...All you have to do is right click a game>properties>updates. Click the box there and it has an option to "o not automatically update this game," then bingo, no more auto updates for it.
Thanks, I didn't. I've only learned from what I've read (and you know how that goes).
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 7:22pm |
nytimesguyPrivate Detective
Posts : 684
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | The popcap games on the list are simplly the demos, which I would assume are free. Steam often puts demos of games in the list. I wouold say it would be preferable if there were a separate section for demos. but honestly it doesn't seem like that big a deal to me.
Charles - Game Theorist
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 7:42pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | I really do not like Steam at all for the simple reason that it is there trying to load up and update itself everytime I start my computer.
I recently got Red Orchestra as a gift and it uses Steam. Now, everytime I reboot my PC, it takes twice as long for it to boot up because Steam is going out there and trying to check itself. Since I do not have my PC set to automatically log on to the internet when I restart my PC, that means it chugs away for a full minute or two until I finally get a Steam bootstrap error.
To me, this stuff is incredibly invasive. These developers seem to think that just because you purchased their software, they own and control your entire PC. Heck, I can't even play Red Orchestra without logging on to Steam and being advertised to. There is no Red Orchestra icon on my PC. Real Arcade (Casual games) does the same thing. If you download a trial game or purchased one through them, you can't access it without going through their panel and having them upload their latest game catelog on to your system. Complete and total BS.
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 8:20pm |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | I think Steam is a great product.
It allows me to download not just great games, but automatically sends me the latest patches.
I can get demo or videos etc etc
The best thing about it is that it has this amazing new feature called "settings" where it is possible to tell it not to send me messages or load up when windows starts and it doesn't load up and update itself unless I want it to.
Amazing.
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 8:20pm |
MrLipidPrivate Detective
Posts : 666
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | I seem to remember that the game community has gotten its mouse cord in a tangle every time the method of game distribution has changed.
There was much wailing when diskettes were replaced with CDs.
There is now more than a little wailing over the change from CDs to DVDs.
And now things look dire as games move to online distribution via STEAM.
Without meaning to sound too blunt, Relax.
Games are simply following music in losing their physicality.
I'd much rather see game developers go with STEAM than with, say, Starforce. One thing to have to be connected to web and quite another to have a physical object which contains a game that cannot be played without running the risk of having one's system seize up for no reason that anyone will admit.
I wonder what this conversation will look like in, oh, five years?
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 8:20pm |
sg7Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 213
Joined: 8 JUN 2004
Location: UK
Status : Offline | I agree with Stiler ,I have been using steam for over 2 years , I lost my hard drive at Xmas , so to restore games I just logged on to steam and bingo all games where available ( alright it took nearly 3 days to restore as they seem to cap speed after a while) , the account is tied to your logon not computer or hardware unlike an infamous mikeysoft product ,I have a 250GB drive so disk space is not an issue ,must look into backing up steam this time
I had a legit key for Half life 2 which came with my old graphics card , there where initial problems with enabling HL2 they underestimated capacity a tad so I pre-loaded both HL2 episode 1 ,and Sin emergence ,and on there release they decrypted for a few minutes and where then ready to play
In UK steam charge dollar prices where my local GAME store charges the same in pounds! So games are nearly half price on steam
If the JA store was online I could buy my adventures almost half price with no shipping or import tax, no stupid starfarce or securom no damaged in transit goods, I would actually buy more games
I played Tombraider legend and it was forever telling me to insert the original, disk (I had the original disk look there in drive you stupid machine >), so I gave up in end and got a no CD crack ! So actually steam is also an effective way to stop piracy and stops you being accused of being a crook even with legit games
Playing ME3-Citadel ,TOMB raider ,Skyrim Dragonborn
Waiting fot journey down episode 2 ,Dragon AGE 3
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 8:22pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Lucien21 (31 AUG 2006 8:20pm)
The best thing about it is that it has this amazing new feature called "settings" where it is possible to tell it not to send me messages or load up when windows starts and it doesn't load up and update itself unless I want it to.
Smartass....
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 8:24pm |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ivinia (31 AUG 2006 8:22pm)
Originally Posted By Lucien21 (31 AUG 2006 8:20pm)
The best thing about it is that it has this amazing new feature called "settings" where it is possible to tell it not to send me messages or load up when windows starts and it doesn't load up and update itself unless I want it to.
Smartass....
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 8:29pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Lucien21 (31 AUG 2006 8:23pm)
Originally Posted By Ivinia (31 AUG 2006 8:22pm)
Originally Posted By Lucien21 (31 AUG 2006 8:20pm)
The best thing about it is that it has this amazing new feature called "settings" where it is possible to tell it not to send me messages or load up when windows starts and it doesn't load up and update itself unless I want it to.
Smartass....
[smiley=rofl.gif]
You did get me lauging!
(btw, it's off now... :)
thank you
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 9:02pm |
StilerJourneyman
Posts : 1477
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, TN
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ivinia (31 AUG 2006 7:42pm)
I really do not like Steam at all for the simple reason that it is there trying to load up and update itself everytime I start my computer.
I recently got Red Orchestra as a gift and it uses Steam. Now, everytime I reboot my PC, it takes twice as long for it to boot up because Steam is going out there and trying to check itself. Since I do not have my PC set to automatically log on to the internet when I restart my PC, that means it chugs away for a full minute or two until I finally get a Steam bootstrap error.
To me, this stuff is incredibly invasive. These developers seem to think that just because you purchased their software, they own and control your entire PC. Heck, I can't even play Red Orchestra without logging on to Steam and being advertised to. There is no Red Orchestra icon on my PC. Real Arcade (Casual games) does the same thing. If you download a trial game or purchased one through them, you can't access it without going through their panel and having them upload their latest game catelog on to your system. Complete and total BS.
Most of everything you said is optionable and easily turned off....
Start steam. Click File>settings.
Now click the interface tab. Uncheck the "start steam with windows" box....now you won't have steam starting with your computer.
Aswell, you talk about advertising. If you don't want to see the pop up news/updates windows (IE when they announce new games, etc) then click file>settings then the messages tab. Uncheck the boxes for whichever you prefer. Now you'll have no more news pop ups when steam connects.
You want a Red Orchestra icon on your desktop? Right click it in your steam menu and then "Create desktop shortcut."
Now how are they controlling your pc? The reason that Steam has to start/run with the games is because It's one of the main points of steam. You connect to steam servers to verify you have the game installed/update the games (unless you want to play offline, then it plays in offline mode). As far as steam as copy protection goes, imo it's a lot more user friendly then cd checks and crap. Plus you don't have to keep any disc in your drive, which annoys the hell out of me.
Edit - I should read the full thread first before replying .
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 9:50pm |
BazzaLBPrivate Detective
Posts : 512
Joined: 27 AUG 2005
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I'm with Lucien.. I have no troubles with steam whatsoever. Infact I MUCH prefer this delivery mechanism. Steam is only running when I tell it to. It only updates games I tell it to.. etc etc etc
Australian software distribution channels are poor to say the least and I hate the way Australian publishers put DVD cases in cardboard boxes that contain nothing but a bit of packing and a DVD case with identical art work! (A pet hate of mine)
This is nothing more than sheer electronic paranoia I tell ya
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 10:47pm |
HelenGuild Master
Posts : 3438
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | We have Steam because my sons were into "Half life and "Counter Strike" among others, I dont know much about it, but it hasnt seemed to cause any problems on any of our pc's that Im aware of.
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| 31 AUG 2006 at 10:58pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By MrLipid (31 AUG 2006 8:20pm)
I seem to remember that the game community has gotten its mouse cord in a tangle every time the method of game distribution has changed.
Steam is not just about game distribution though. It's game management. It affects how you play and store your games after your initial purchase. Changing from floppies to CD's or from CD's to DVD's did not affect whether you were able to choose your patch, or complicate your ability to sell your games.
Originally Posted By Stiler (31 AUG 2006 4:05pm)
Secondly, you can easily make a back-up of a steam game onto a cd/dvd if you wish aswell (it's built into steam).
How good is the compression? I can't think of any new games that would fit on a single CDR without compression. Does Steam allow any sort of disc spanning? My experience with DVDR readability has not been particularly good, which is why I still use CDR's for backing things up.
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| 1 SEP 2006 at 12:32am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (31 AUG 2006 10:57pm)
Steam is not just about game distribution though. It's game management. It affects how you play and store your games after your initial purchase. Changing from floppies to CD's or from CD's to DVD's did not affect whether you were able to choose your patch, or complicate your ability to sell your games.
Interesting thought. I was a bit surprised at the wording when I was installing Red Orchestra. It basically said that you are NOT the owner of the game. You have only purchased the right to PLAY the game. Perhaps these are the early stages of stopping players from reselling their games?
The irony is that you see that AFTER you have purchased and opened it, so if you disagree, you can't take it back anyway.
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| 1 SEP 2006 at 4:34am |
BazzaLBPrivate Detective
Posts : 512
Joined: 27 AUG 2005
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Yes.. how dare a software company try to get paid for every copy played. Its unethical /sarcasm
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| 1 SEP 2006 at 4:41am |
MrLipidPrivate Detective
Posts : 666
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (31 AUG 2006 10:57pm)
Steam is not just about game distribution though. It's game management. It affects how you play and store your games after your initial purchase. Changing from floppies to CD's or from CD's to DVD's did not affect whether you were able to choose your patch, or complicate your ability to sell your games.
Not sure how it affects how I play. I click on The Ship and it plays. Not sure I much care where the game is stored...anymore than I care where videos on demand are stored by my cable company.
I can choose to patch or not and software is not something I, or anyone else, really own. I have a license to use the software but I don't really own it. Which, of course. has always complicated any sale of software.
Is STEAM about game management? Of course. It's a way for a developer/publisher to offer value (updates, patches) while attempting to reduce piracy. Given the choice between STEAM and Starforce, I'll take STEAM.
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