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| 8 JUL 2006 at 12:27am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Adventure Lantern is such an impressive 'publication' for adventure gamers. The reviews are comprehensive and obviously written by people who love AGs.
But it's a little unfortunate that a grade of 96/100 was given for Al Emmo because it strains the credibility of the reviews in general, especially when, directly following it, is The Secrets of Da Vinci given 'only' a grade of 85/100 (which is probably very appropriate). My point here is not that Al Emmo doesn't deserve a good score. It may very well deserve one & from what I've seen of the demo, I'm looking forward to it. But 96/100 implies almost a perfect game. I would like to think that that sort of stratosphere of a grade would be reserved for a treasured few games. After all, where are you going to go after a grade like that?
All of this is also keeping in mind that there are apparent flaws in Al Emmo as indicated by the responses on the 3 main AG forums to the Demo. For instance, a number of people are really having a problem with such things as the voices and I tend to agree that it may be hard to sit thru the whole game listening to some of them. So all I'm saying is that from the first look most of us are getting, Al Emmo may well turn out to be an excellent experience, but 96/100 seems to be stretching it!
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 12:50am |
ErpyIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 74
Joined: 18 NOV 2002
Status : Online | The reviewer did mention and acknowledge having a difficult time with the protagonist's voice at first, before it grew on her, so I'm hoping it'll convince people to try and get into the game even if they don't like the voices at first. Then again, it may also trigger the "devil's advocate" reflex in some people. (I'm hoping that won't happen)
That said, I do see your point, although I certainly can't complain.
[img]http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/images/avatars/moodpics/Nashwink.jpg[/img]
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 12:53am |
| Deleted User | Although I think VERY highly of Al Emmo. I agree with you.
IMHO, an astronomical score like that should be reserved for the "ozen best games EVER' sort of category'
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 12:55am |
| Deleted User | ~~ Hi SirDave ~~
Originally Posted By LenG (8 JUL 2006 12:52am)
Although I think very VERY highly of Al Emmo. I agree with you.
IMHO, an astronomical score like that should be reserved for the "ozen best games EVER' sort of category'
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 12:57am |
| Deleted User | Sorry ... tried to make an edit ....... and something went wrong with the works !! : 8-)
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 2:29am |
Wendy1117Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 51
Joined: 2 MAR 2006
Status : Online | Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I gave the game a 96 because I thoroughly enjoyed the game. I was entertained from beginning to end and laughed the entire time. To me, that alone is worth the grade. What bothers me may not bother you and vice versa. We're all different.
The game got an "A" on JA. But, what kind of "A" is it? It could be a high "A" as well. Who knows.
Like it has been said many time before, grades are subjective. The important thing is that you get the information you need from my review to make the decision for yourself whether to buy it or not. Hopefully, I provided enough information. If you played the demo and just couldn't take the voice, then perhaps the whole game is not for you. And, that's certainly understandable. If you don't like a lot of dialog, then this game's not for you. I do happen to like a lot of dialog.
I stand by my grade because for me, it was one of the most entertaining games I've played in a long time. It's a throwback to those classics games that I started on and have remained in my heart as favorites. I loved it.
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 2:50am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Wendy1117 (8 JUL 2006 2:28am)
Like it has been said many time before, grades are subjective.
Students would probably not want to hear that from their teachers. Of course, to some extent an individual can't totally separate the subjective from the objective, but although I agree with some of what you say, I can't accept the total dismissal of the principle that grades in the 90s should be very carefully given, otherwise overall that high a grade isn't going to mean much.
Essentially, in one sense what you're saying is that Al Emmo is another Riven, Obsidian or Gabriel Knight!
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 3:09am |
UgurIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 45
Joined: 27 JAN 2006
Status : Offline | SirDave, I think that is pretty much exactly what Wendy is saying. I am afraid I have not played the game so I can't back or contradict her opinion in any way.
One thing I should point out though is the way our scale would convert to JA:
90-93 should be an A-
94-96 is an A
97-100 is an A+
So a 96 IS a high end A, but really not that different than Sudeep's grade on this very site. I don't know if this puts it into a little better perspective.
Now in pricipal, I am 100% with you, a good grade has to be used sparingly or it's meaningless. I've written 50+ reviews to date and only gave a grade above a 95 once (even then I had to hear about it and in retrospect, it was probably too high).
But in this case I have no doubt Wendy truly means the grade.
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 3:26am |
Wendy1117Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 51
Joined: 2 MAR 2006
Status : Online | No, I'm not dismissing that principle at all. I did, in fact, think carefully about the grade I gave based upon my overall enjoyment.
No, I wouldn't compare Al Emmo to Riven or Obsidian because I didn't enjoy those games at all. I'm sure I'll get killed for that one.
But, when I see a review for Riven with an incredible score, I know I can't go by that grade for myself. Reading the whole review, I know what the elements of the game are and that the high score is given by someone who loves the elements of that type of game. I don't, but I do respect the fact that they do. And, there's a ton of people out there who love those types of games and would read that review and know that the game is for them. I wouldn't even dare write a review on that type of game because I don't feel I could review it fairly. That's the same reason I don't play or review action games. I stink at them. My inability to get through action sequences kills my enjoyment. Therefore.......aggravated jaded eyes. Not fair.
And, I don't think I would compare Gabriel Knight to Al Emmo because while Gabriel Knight does have humor in it (with all the quick wit) and GK1 was from the classic game time period and has that classic interface, the two stories have completely different tones to them. The Gabriel Knight series holds my utmost regard. But, I can love them both for different reasons. oes that mean I love every game that falls into my type? Hell no. I list the good and the bad and I make sure I point out things that others might not like. I personally did not play the Al Emmo demo, so I can't speak to the problems with it. But, I can only assume the voices are the same. But, I thought Al's voice fit his character. Yes, it was startling at first. But, by the end of the 1st act, it didn't bother me at all and I started to love that he had that horrible high pitched voice. It just fit in with the whole nerdy character.
We did put reviewer profiles on the forum so people would get a sense of what each reviewer likes and dislikes.
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 5:30am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Well, just so there is no mistaking- overall, I like what I see in the Al Emmo demo and hope the game does well. It's going to be high on my 'buy' list. And in spite of any disagreement I might have with the absolute grade given in Wendy's review, I actually really liked the review and it definitely is making me look even more forward to the full game.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 5:48am |
Wendy1117Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 51
Joined: 2 MAR 2006
Status : Online | Yes, I did get that. I also saw some of your posts over at Adventure Gamers. Thanks for even taking the time to read my review. I think for me, this game just happened to fall perfectly into my little "love" niche. It just hit on everything that appeals to me in a game. Since I started reviewing, only a couple of games have hit that high with me: Syberia and Still Life. Mind you, I have only reviewed more recent games so far. I haven't gotten over to storage just yet to get my older games out.
I hope it does well too. People really seem to be slamming it over the demo. I never played the demo, so I can't speak to that but from what I've read, they did seem to fix a lot of things in the full version.
This game is just pure fun. I think that's what games should be. And, some of the newer games I've recently reviewed had me disappointed (Paradise, Law & Order: Criminal Intent, CSI: 3 Dimensions....bugs, bugs, bugs). It was great to be finally assigned one that held up. My husband thought I was nuts laughing in the corner by myself. He hates these kinds of games. If he reviewed it, it would likely get a 60. He's strictly a racing or kill-them-all type of gamer. He has no tolerance for all the talking or key finding.
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 8:42am |
MysticFallsIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 29
Joined: 30 MAY 2006
Status : Online | Wendy, May I have a direct link to your review? I clicked on Len's link and got lost. No Review.
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 10:44am |
ErpyIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 74
Joined: 18 NOV 2002
Status : Online | I hope it does well too. People really seem to be slamming it over the demo. I never played the demo, so I can't speak to that but from what I've read, they did seem to fix a lot of things in the full version.
The demo is, in essence, the full game that quits after the first act. You can only visit those locations that are needed to complete the demo, the rest of the screens were taken out to conserve space and because we didn't want to give too much away at once. We made a few changes to the full game like exit arrows to indicate the screen exits, but for the most part, you HAVE played the demo the first hour or so during your playing session.
Thanks for the good review, btw. We're glad to hear it hit just the right spot for you.
[img]http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/images/avatars/moodpics/Nashsmil.jpg[/img]
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 11:07am |
| Deleted User | ~~ MysticFalls ~~ (Copied from my post on Quandaryland ... in case you didn't see it there)!
Sorry, I was not clear! :-[
It is not listed in the usual Reviews section. It is reviewed in the Adventure Lantern’s monthly 'Our Magazine'.
Click on the (latest edition) July 2006 graphic, and you will be able to view &/or download the whole (free) mag… 110 pages (in .pdf format).
The Al Emmo Review is the very first one there… pages 28 thro’ 34.
Apologies; Enjoy! ... Len.
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 3:44pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By MysticFalls (8 JUL 2006 8:42am)
Sir Dave, why don't you just go and play MYST for the umpteenth time instead of making assertions about a NEW game you haven't even played yet because it hasn't been released?
So just what are you smoking? What assertions? Practically every post I've made about Al Emmo, here & at Adventure Gamers has been not just a little supportive, but very supportive and positive. Something LenG and I think even Wendy will verify. Why not check your facts before making assertions.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 5:02pm |
UgurIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 45
Joined: 27 JAN 2006
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By LenG (8 JUL 2006 11:07am)
~~ MysticFalls ~~ (Copied from my post on Quandaryland ... in case you didn't see it there)!
Sorry, I was not clear! :-[
It is not listed in the usual Reviews section. It is reviewed in the Adventure Lantern’s monthly 'Our Magazine'.
Click on the (latest edition) July 2006 graphic, and you will be able to view &/or download the whole (free) mag… 110 pages (in .pdf format).
The Al Emmo Review is the very first one there… pages 28 thro’ 34.
Apologies; Enjoy! ... Len.
Just to add to Len's response, for those who don't know, Adventure Lantern is a monthly magazine.
We do post the articles on the Web for those who don't want to download our issues, but they appear a few days later when I find some time to format them.
All our issues are accessible through: http://www.adventurelantern.com/Magazine/Index.htm
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 5:15pm |
| Deleted User | Since my name has been mentioned I feel obligated to chip in.
~~ Mystic Falls ~~
I think you've simply misunderstood what SirDave was getting at.
If I understood him correctly (and I think I did) he was not running down either the demo or the forthcoming full game.
I believe that he was simply pointing out that a FINAL SCORE of 96/100 was in his opinion exaggerated and such a grade should be reserved for the very few masterpieces which have been released over the decades.
On that contention, whilst loving Al-Emmo and knowing VERY WELL its myriad unusually good points (and maybe 1 or 2 not so good) I have stated that I personally agree with him.
N.B. The whole subject of grading games (i.e. giving a score) is a very tricky, sensitive & subjective one.
I see that you post quite a lot on Quandaryland. Rosemary and Gordon (with whom I've had [excellent] personal contact over many years, will confirm that I've brought this controversial subject up on more than one occasion.
Furthermore, for many, many years, they held out against the majority and refused to add a grade to any of their many excellent reviews (including even 1 or 2 of mine [not so excellent ones] ... I've since stopped writing them since I HATE imposing my views on others) and I was 'all for that'!
In the end, for certain reasons they were pretty well forced into adopting a grading system ... AFAIK quite reluctantly!
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 7:30pm |
Wendy1117Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 51
Joined: 2 MAR 2006
Status : Online | Well, I certainly hope that this thread does not turn into bitter arguments. I hate it when that happens. We were having quite the polite discussion. We all agreed that the game is great. The only discrepancy is in the grade.
It would be great if every single gaming site used the same grading system......but we don't. There is no standard.
What I consider a 96 according to AL's grading scale is an "A"......not an A-, not an A+. To, others a 96 constitutes the masterpiece range. For me, a masterpiece falls into the 97-100 range and those games are few and far between, unfortunately. And, masterpieces constitute something completely different in everyone's mind.
There are millions of gamers out there and we're all individuals. And, that's ok!!! If we all thought the same and liked exactly the same things, I think it would be a pretty scary world and not one I would want to live in.
So, you may play the game and think my grade was spot on...according to our grading scale, or you may not. That's what being individuals is all about.
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| 8 JUL 2006 at 8:13pm |
| Deleted User | ~~ Wendy1117 ~~
Don't be upset! [smiley=angel.gif]
We all (I believe) think that your Review is excellent. [smiley=bowdown.gif]
I'm sure it's not not turning "into bitter arguments".
It's just a difference of opinion about different types of GRADING (points) systems.
A general subject which has been controversial from many aspects in the past... and I'm pretty certain will continue to be in the future!! [smiley=devil_smiley_grintail.gif]
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| 9 JUL 2006 at 1:05am |
Wendy1117Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 51
Joined: 2 MAR 2006
Status : Online | Oh....I wasn't referring to what you or Sir Dave said. I just didn't want the one comment directed at SirDave to turn the thread in the wrong direction.
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| 9 JUL 2006 at 7:49am |
MysticFallsIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 29
Joined: 30 MAY 2006
Status : Online | Thanks Len. Haven't read the Review yet, I'll play the Demo first.
I really don't take any notice of what "grade" a game gets awarded. I buy a game and play it and then decide whether it is a good game or not! Actions, not words!
Sorry if I upset the apple cart. I did edit my post but was a bit late in so doing. :-[
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| 9 JUL 2006 at 7:12pm |
Wendy1117Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 51
Joined: 2 MAR 2006
Status : Online | MysticFalls -- I did notice the post was missing, just wasn't sure why. Thanks for editing anyway!
I hope when the game comes out that you enjoy it as much as I did.
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| 10 JUL 2006 at 6:37am |
MysticFallsIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 29
Joined: 30 MAY 2006
Status : Online | Wendy, I played the Demo and liked what I saw. Al's voice didn't bother me, he's just a Dork. Normally I don't read reviews at all. If there is a Demo available I try those and make my mind up whether to buy or not that way.
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| 12 JUL 2006 at 2:00am |
DogmanIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 2
Joined: 12 JUL 2006
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Ugur (8 JUL 2006 3:09am)
One thing I should point out though is the way our scale would convert to JA:
90-93 should be an A-
94-96 is an A
97-100 is an A+
This is confusing. JA's ratings don't go down to J. Your ratings surely don't start at 40% (equivilent to an F from JA). Is your scale logarithmic? How does that make any sense?
I do think you need to think more carefully about your publication's ratings system, lest it become meaningless. Good Al Emmo may be, but does it warrant a rating higher than most print magazines gave to Half-Life or Monkey Island? Really?
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