| 21 OCT 2002 at 11:14pm |
GrammarTrollIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 62
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | What's a "Mac"?
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 12:56am |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | I think it's those thing's with the yellow arches over them. I could be wrong though.
Maybe Harriet will explain.
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 1:34am |
Bruce_FielderIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 4
Joined: 21 OCT 2002
Status : Online | This is my first post on this forum after registering earlier today. I think that this forum and the one at Gameboomers epitomize what a forum should be.
Anyway, I am a Mac user (iMac Rev. B with 233Mhz runnng OS 9.1). I know that the selection of games for the Mac has definitely improved and that it will only get bigger and better as more developers get used to designing games on the Unix-based OS X (10) platform.
Of course, to purchase Mac games, you need to go online as very few brick & mortar stores carry Mac software of any kind. Fortunately, there are plenty of online vendors that do support Mac programs.
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 4:13am |
| Deleted User | "Escape Velocty," a Macintosh only game is one of the best games ever made for any platform. Buy a Mac or emulate a Mac and play it as soon as possible...
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 7:18am |
bleepnikPrivate Detective
Posts : 544
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | OK, so here's something that bugs me. I have nothing against the Mac, and certainly don't want to see this turn into a platform war. I'm all for developers and publishers supporting both platforms to whatever extent they can, given budgetary constraints.
What I don't understand, however, are Mac-only game releases. Why would you limit your audience like that? Unlike consoles, I highly doubt that unless one has copious amounts of expendable income (and if you do, I hereby declare that I'm up for adoption), one will go out and purchase a Mac (or PC, for that matter) for just one game. I especially don't understand it when there's already an established following of PC gamers. Yes yes, I do actually have an example in mind. One of the Journeyman Project games. I can't for the life of me remember which one, but one of them was redone for the Mac. IIRC, the aesthetic improvement is simply phenomenal. It's... not fair, dagnabbit.
.gita
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 8:49am |
emmaPrivate Detective
Posts : 525
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I used to be mac only user, and I always comforted myself with the mantra "only the really GOOD games gets ported to mac...". Of course, I finally caved in, and have now both PC and Mac at home. I wanna find out about the suckers for myself, alright!
As far as I know, only two adventure games have been made entirely for mac, with no pc-release, and that would be The Castle (http://www.blueline-studios.com/casMain.html), a Myst-like game not bad at all, and another, a 3D game, that I for the moment can't recall the name of : *sigh*, but it's basically finding your way through a maze like environment (a pyramid if memory serves me) and find some discs. I *do* recall it giving me motion sickness at the time! heh
The first JP, was released to macintosh as a Turbo-version, I think. But (and I'm not entirely sure) I'm under the impression it's available for PC too. I got both versions at home, so I'll check it out.
As for not releasing to both plattforms, I've heard all sorts of explanations, almost always pertaining to the fact that one or the other from the different sides are showing little or no interest of helping the other plattform out, with programs or whatnot. Thus making the "sides" blaming eachother. I'm convinced that both macintosh- and pc-people do this, with a basic notion that all should be using THEIR platform, and if they can't convert it, tough doody.
I have to confess, that since I can't always get PC-games to work on my PC, (that is the strength of mac actually, if the requirements on the box is what I have on my mac, it works, regardless) I'm looking more and more towards getting a console, where tweaking, personal settings, cards and whatnot is not considered. If ag's would be ported to consoles, I'd never have to worry about which plattform to use. Of course, weren't it for the fact that there are different consoles... *sheesh*
oh well....
[URL=http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=emma]My DVDs[/URL] | [URL=http://www.adventuregamers.com/]AdventureGamers[/URL] | I haven't lost my mind, I've got a backup on a disc somewhere.
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 9:41am |
bleepnikPrivate Detective
Posts : 544
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | A Google search quickly revealed where I'd initially read about the Mac version -- right here on JustAdventure, what a shock
The Journeyman Project: Pegasus Prime. Mac only. Check out the screenshots:
http://www.justadventure.com/reviews/PegasusPrime/PegasusPrime.shtm
*sigh*
.gita
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 10:21am |
emmaPrivate Detective
Posts : 525
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Thanks Gita, I don't think I've even ever heard of this version... *rubs hands*. So that makes three mac-only titles, as I know of! (Of course, needless to say there are a gazillion PC only releases, but...)
I realized I hadn't said anything to your quiz Harriet (sorry!), here's something about that; Do I think Mac availability is increasing. Yes, as macintosh users are increasing the economic of porting games to it gets more interesting. If ALL games will be ported to mac though, I doubt. I would very much like to the The Longest Journey ported to mac. Not one of my favorite games, but as irony has it, Sweden are absolutely lousied with mac-users, and TLJ created a lot of attention when it arrived, even in Swedish newsmedia. Of course, not being able to play it, turned away a lot of potential customers.
[URL=http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=emma]My DVDs[/URL] | [URL=http://www.adventuregamers.com/]AdventureGamers[/URL] | I haven't lost my mind, I've got a backup on a disc somewhere.
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 1:46pm |
Bruce_FielderIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 4
Joined: 21 OCT 2002
Status : Online | In my previous post I stated I have an iMac. I also have a Windows based laptop for my work that I play games on as well.
I prefer to play games on the iMac but many games aren't written for that platform. What I can't understand is why more designers don't issue the hybrid CD's that allow playing on either platform. Some recent games that did this include Riddle of the Sphinx and Traitors Gate. You can also get these games in WIN OS only but the first releases were hybrid disks. Of course, Myst and Riven were both hybrid disks as well and Myst 3 Exile was also hybrid.
Given that computers are used to write the games and the apparent ease of use regarding OS translator programs, I wish all developers would issue hybrids. The incremental cost would be easily covered by the potentially wider market.
I have Journeyman Pegasus Prime for the Mac and the Journyeman Turbo Project disks for the WIN OS. Pegasus Prime is the Mac version of the first Journeyman game.
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 4:25pm |
mszvPrivate Detective
Posts : 751
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Hi,
I think that because a game has a Mac and PC version on the same CD doesn't mean that it's easy to do. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought that releasing a game on more than one hardware and software OS platform was a really big deal. Yes, it's all software, but you use different technologies and different tools, and you often support quite different hardware configurations and a different OS. I would think that no developer would support both a Mac and a PC platform unless they had to - it's tough enough getting the game to run on all the standard Windows OS systems, as well as all the different PC hardware platforms. I also thought that most games ported to the Mac were done after the game was released on a PC, and they were done by a different development team. I think that, if the Mac market share increases, by a lot, more games would be available on the Mac. Right now, I can't see how it's viable, from a cost perspective. This situation is completely different from the PDA world - there are many more applications written for a Palm OS PDA (personal data assistant) than a Pocket PC OS PDA.
For you Mac folks, do those PC emulators you can buy work with PC games, can you run them on the Mac? It seems like, if they worked at all, they would make the game run very slowly.
Regards, mszv
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 7:06pm |
Bruce_FielderIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 4
Joined: 21 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I checked into the WIN OS emulators for the Mac. While these are good for basic WIN software, particularly MS Office on the Mac, I've been told by several Mac technicians and Apple Store employees that emulators don't work for PC-based games. Something about the emulators not being able to utilize the video graphics card emulations well enough. Some games play on Macs this way but very poorly; most games don't play at all (or so I'm told).
I still think that since Myst 3 Exile was released in a hybrid format, it cannot be all that difficult to create hybrids in this day & age. I do agree that only a bigger Mac presence in the marketplace will force developers to actually consider hybrids or Mac-based games more seriously.
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 10:25pm |
bleepnikPrivate Detective
Posts : 544
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By mszv (22 OCT 2002 4:25pm)
This situation is completely different from the PDA world - there are many more applications written for a Palm OS PDA (personal data assistant) than a Pocket PC OS PDA.
Personal Digital Assistant, and not for long
Originally Posted By Bruce_Fielder (22 OCT 2002 7:05pm)
I still think that since Myst 3 Exile was released in a hybrid format, it cannot be all that difficult to create hybrids in this day & age.
I don't see how anyone can speculate about the difficulty of developing for both platforms unless one is both a developer and familiar with both platforms. I am neither; however, I believe that Cyan is a Mac developer first, a PC developer second. Given their expertise on that platform, it is understandable that they would release a hybrid cd for their games.
.gita
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 1:52am |
mszvPrivate Detective
Posts : 751
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Hi JustG and everyone,
Cyan didn't do Myst III:Exile, Ubisoft did. Ubi got the rights to do it from Cyan, who is busy developing Myst Online. Ubi also did the game for the Xbox, and (not sure on this) they also did it for the Playstation, right? Ubisoft is a big company, they have a lot of development resources. The same cannot be said about a small game development company. I do think that the Cyan folks started developing games for the Mac, but they switched to the PC as their primary platform. When RealMyst was released for the Mac, I believe they got someone else to port the game to the Mac.
I don't think I made myself clear, sorry. I don't know whether it's harder or easier to do games for the Mac or PC, but, as far as I know, you do use different tools and technology. From my technical experience (not in game development), you can't always use the same code for multiple platforms (sometimes you can), so you often have to make several versions of the same thing. Sometimes a feature you want is also available on only one platform, so you have to decide if you really want to include it. That's just a pain, and it will increase your time and costs. I'm not saying it can't be done, I just think that game developers have to make that decision, every time, they have to decide if it's worth it. Personally, I don't know if it's worth it. Do Mac users buy a lot of games?
On PDAs I see someone likes a Pocket PC machine (and I see I got the full name wrong!). Well, I'm still hoping the Palm OS wins, but if it doesn't, I'll switch.
Regards, mszv
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 3:06am |
bleepnikPrivate Detective
Posts : 544
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By mszv (23 OCT 2002 1:51am)
Cyan didn't do Myst III:Exile, Ubisoft did.
Oops.
I'm not saying it can't be done, I just think that game developers have to make that decision, every time, they have to decide if it's worth it. Personally, I don't know if it's worth it.
Agreed.
Well, I'm still hoping the Palm OS wins, but if it doesn't, I'll switch.
Can't we all just get along? The number of PPC users is growing by leaps 'n' bounds, but Palm OS already has an established following. I hope neither dies out... it keeps things interesting.
.gita
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 4:53am |
lakerzPrivate Detective
Posts : 654
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Hi Bruce,
I know several people who use Virtual PC (I think that's the name) to play PC adventure games on their Macs. It doesn't work so hot for the newest games that have demanding specs, but works great for all the older games. Heck, I know of a few instances where they had some games running much more smoothly on Virtual PC than I did with a real PC!
What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas...
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 6:49am |
bleepnikPrivate Detective
Posts : 544
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Indeed, a few PC gamers I know use VirtualPC on their PCs. It can emulate an old DOS environment very well, hardware 'n' all.
.gita
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 2:32pm |
Bruce_FielderIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 4
Joined: 21 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Thanks for the input re Virtual PC. I'll probably pick up a copy for WIN 98 and try it out on some older games. If it works, I'll be glad and sad - - - glad it worked but sad because I sold off some very good older PC games because my WIN 2000 OS system wouldn't recognize them, even when I told it to emulate older WIN platforms.
RealMyst was indeed ported over the Mac by a third party firm but I can't recall their name either.
I know choices have to be made when developers decide what platform to use for their game design. Smaller developers don't have the luxury of even considering other platforms other than Windows. It would just be nice if the larger developers considered it at all.
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 5:05pm |
JCIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 10
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I have used Virtual PC for about 2 years and also found hat older games are OK and newer ones don't work. For example, the original Jedi Knight and Rollercoaster Tycoon run OK in Virtual PC althogh a bit slowly but Jedi Knight II and Rollercoaster Tycoon II won't even start up.
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