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Topic: A--Emmo: Demo & walkthrough(s)

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All Forums : [Adventure Games Forum] : Adventure Game Discussion > A--Emmo: Demo & walkthrough(s)

#26

6 JUL 2006 at 12:19pm

Erpy

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I don't know if that would fix the part that I quit on. I really think the hotspot itself needs to be moved. All other areas within the demo were pretty obvious I think. If I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like my mouse would have to be over the exit. I would have never dreamed of putting it at the top of a building.

It's not at the top of the building. It's activated when your mouse is between the two buildings as indicated in the picture below:

[img]http://www.himalayastudios.com/images/arrowexit.png[/img]

I'm pretty confident that it'll suffice to make sure most people notice it.

Anyway, separating the intro and the "new game" option was, I think, a force of habit. In all our games, the introduction and new game were separate options and "watch introduction" is (judging from the games I've played) a fairly common component of main menu's. Nevertheless, we added the feature that the intro is automatically played after clicking "new game" the first time you start the game. (although I wonder...if someone immediately clicks "new game" instead of "introduction" because he's aching to test the actual gameplay, won't he click through the intro movie as well?)

when the narrator is basically making fun of you for being stupid and talking to you in a condescending tone.

I've seen complaints about the narrator, but I personally feel the actor did a perfect job in capturing the narrator the way he was written. Aside from the "cactus line" (and the off-limits areas in the demo, which are simply reachable in the full game), I haven't heard any comments of the narrator towards the player...his pokes are all directed at Al and if you forgive me this little spoiler...

Spoiler Alert...Al eventually starts talking back to narrator.

[img]http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/images/avatars/moodpics/Nashnorm.jpg[/img]

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#27 6 JUL 2006 at 12:27pm
GameDevChris_ Intergalactic Janitor Posts : 1 Joined: 6 JUL 2006 Status : Online	I don't know if that would fix the part that I quit on. I really think the hotspot itself needs to be moved. All other areas within the demo were pretty obvious I think. If I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like my mouse would have to be over the exit. I would have never dreamed of putting it at the top of a building. It will now. In addition to adding the exit arrows, I also moved the hotspot trigger down much further. You'll only need to hold the mouse at street level for the exit arrow to appear and to leave the screen. This was actually mentioned by beta testers as an area that was difficult to access, so it had already been tweaked twice previously. Guess it still hadn't been tweaked enough. It's fixed properly now though, and the area is now easily accessible to all players. Also, the exit cursors are completely optional, so they can be toggled on/off from the options menu. Regarding the voices... if memory serves correctly, didn't Urkel garner cheers of applause from the audience every time he entered the scene? It's really not that bad. I think the fact people constantly comment on it has a rub-off effect on others and makes it seem worse than it actually is. Al's lines are mostly actually kept pretty short, and he's definitely at his 'whiniest' point during the first act, which is why people may draw such conclusions from the demo. He somewhat mellows out in subsequent acts, though. As I've mentioned elsewhere, we've always been aware that not everybody will find the voices to their liking (such is the case with many games), but this is why we've included an option to turn them on and off at will. What is 'good' to somebody may not be 'good' to another person. Voices are always subjective to personal opinion. All we can do as developers is choose the voices that we think best suit our own characters and go with them. I just now saw the introduction movie for the first time. When I played the demo, I just clicked start new game - missed the intro entirely. I'm not sure why separating the two like that was done. Usually when you start a new game, the intro plays. Yup, we've received other reports of people accidentally overlooking that as well. This, too, has now been changed in the full game to play the first time the player clicks the START NEW GAME button (provided they haven't seen the intro yet). Thanks for the comments and feedback. This helps us to make the game more user-friendly before the actual release.
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#28 7 JUL 2006 at 4:03pm
Ivinia Guild Master Posts : 4459 Joined: 7 JUN 2003 Location: US Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By LenG (6 JUL 2006 11:50am)* You seem to have turned this into a personal censure instead of a factual discussion. Read your posts. Wimli took personal offense to your earlier statements, as did I. Heck, someone else even jumped in who felt people were being jumped on who talked about things they didn't like. Please don't say I turned it into something personal, you took into that realm long before I ever did. I don't know if that was your intention, but that's how it came across. I wonder why? Don't. The answer would not be appropriate here. Let's just say your comments in regards to beta-testing hit a nerve. The assessment of voice acting is very personal & subjective like many other aspects of games and other creative activities. Those who think it’s bad will not be convinced by any ‘logical’ arguments, You're obsessed with this voice acting thing and defending the actors. I've already said it a few times already, I don't think anyone has commented on the actors or the job they did. The comments were on the 'sound' of the voice, which was meant to be that way. Al's voice was meant to be annoying and the voice actor did a fantastic job pulling it off. Stop thinking that the comments about Al's voice are some kind of attack on the voice actor - they're not, and by saying, "Those who think it’s bad will not be convinced by any ‘logical’ arguments" you're implying people are stupid who don't like the voice. I do however take exception to your personal & contradictory statements, made possibly due to complete lack of knowledge of some facts. Hello? C'mon, Len. You've been making personal attacks on people who didn't like certain aspects of the demo. “I think you were just so wrapped up into it because of beta testing that you see things from the other side.” In your above previous post you imply that I do not (did not) see any flaws in the game due to the fact that I was “so wrapped up into it” and hence can only “see things from the other side”. No. Please stop pulling things out of one area and applying them to another. You commented on the "Put your left finger on the ESC key" (which, by the way, I found condescending and took as a personal insult...which was BEFORE I said things that you took personally. I appreciate you letting me know what finger to use.) You commented, "But instead of acknowledging an obvious unusual plus, you see fit to criticize it. " You said you couldn't understand why. Then you asked if you were dumb. THAT is what my comment is related to, not flaws. It was NOT an "obvious" plus. It was something that you were well aware of as a beta tester. Hence, the comment about you being wrapped up in it and seeing things from the other side. To YOU it was an obvious plus because it was common knowledge to YOU. I have to stop here. This discussion is pointless. I gave my honest impressions of the demo, both good and bad. You've staunchly focused on the bad comments and ignored the good while at the same wondering why everyone is talking about negative things. You're the one who was keeping it there. Here's a shocker. Would you believe I liked the game? Take off your blinders and read what I wrote. Look at where my game experience went bad. 1]. When I was running around completing tasks and realized I had no clue as to why I was there. Why? Because I missed the whole intro movie when I clicked Start New Game. 2]. Running around for 20 minutes trying to find the flagpole. Why? Because the hotspot is in a bad place. Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think I would get into a pissing contest with you of all people. I find it extremely regrettable that all this seems to have spiraled out of control.
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#29 7 JUL 2006 at 4:07pm
Ivinia Guild Master Posts : 4459 Joined: 7 JUN 2003 Location: US Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By GameDevChris_ (6 JUL 2006 12:27pm)* It will now. In addition to adding the exit arrows, I also moved the hotspot trigger down much further. You'll only need to hold the mouse at street level for the exit arrow to appear and to leave the screen. This was actually mentioned by beta testers as an area that was difficult to access, so it had already been tweaked twice previously. Guess it still hadn't been tweaked enough. It's fixed properly now though, and the area is now easily accessible to all players. Also, the exit cursors are completely optional, so they can be toggled on/off from the options menu. That works. I'm surprised I haven't seen any other comments about that from players. All other exit points seemed pretty straight-forward in the game. Regarding the voices... if memory serves correctly, didn't Urkel garner cheers of applause from the audience every time he entered the scene? Yes, but he wasn't the main character so you only had to deal with him in small doses. When he did get longer roles, people were used to him by then, but even so it was only a half hour show. It's really not that bad. I think the fact people constantly comment on it has a rub-off effect on others and makes it seem worse than it actually is. There's probably a lot of truth in that. I don't think that the strong defense of it that some people made helped matters either. As I said several times, I did think it was annoying, but it was not a deal breaker for me. Getting stuck with that hotspot and getting ticked just REALLY made those voices annoying. Yup, we've received other reports of people accidentally overlooking that as well. This, too, has now been changed in the full game to play the first time the player clicks the START NEW GAME button (provided they haven't seen the intro yet). Missing that intro has a big impact on the impression of the game. It gives you the reason for being there in the first place. I also think it makes the following 3d rendered animations easier to accept. We've been seeing the hand-drawn screenshots and without seeing the animated intro first, the "I'm your Gal" animation comes as a bit of a shock. Seeing that intro first prepares people right off the bat that the animated scenes are 3d rendered. BTW, I thought the modeling and animation in that intro were very well done. Certain movements that were included showed a great deal of attention to detail and I was impressed. I don't think many professional game companies put that much 'character' into their characters. Thanks for the comments and feedback. This helps us to make the game more user-friendly before the actual release. I appreciate that you read what I wrote in the proper spirit of things. You saw it as comments and feedback, not complaints and negativity and I'm glad that you were able to get to the root causes of why/where my experience took a turn for the worse. Like I said before, I have a lot of respect for Britney and don't think she would put out a bad game. She's been the face of Himalaya and you've been hiding in the shadows so I don't know much about you. However, judging by your response here, I think Himalaya has some smart heads at the top.
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#30 8 JUL 2006 at 6:58pm
Wimli Guild Master Posts : 3259 Joined: 14 MAR 2003 Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By Ivinia (7 JUL 2006 4:03pm)* *Originally Posted By LenG (6 JUL 2006 11:50am)* You seem to have turned this into a personal censure instead of a factual discussion. Read your posts. Wimli took personal offense to your earlier statements, as did I. Heck, someone else even jumped in who felt people were being jumped on who talked about things they didn't like. Please don't say I turned it into something personal, you took into that realm long before I ever did. I don't know if that was your intention, but that's how it came across. I agree. Ivinia did not anwer your attack on people who criticised the game with an attack of his own, but instead elaborated on his opinion of the demo, stating both the elements he liked as well as some elements that he thought could use some improvements before the release of the full game. Yet you chose to become more and more fired up and agressive in your replies. You also decided to completely ignore my reply on your first post. Judging by how you replied on Ivinia's more neutral posts, I probably should be glad you did just that. *Originally Posted By LenG (6 JUL 2006 11:50am)* The assessment of voice acting is very personal & subjective like many other aspects of games and other creative activities. Those who think it’s bad will not be convinced by any ‘logical’ arguments, You imply here, again, that everyone who disagrees with you on the subject of Al Emmo is simply wrong, or even worse, is a complete idiot not able to evaluate a game or demo. I know you have had loads and loads of experience with adventure games, probably played and beta tested more of them than I ever will in my life, but that doesn't mean that some one with less experience than you can make a fair judgement of a game/demo as well. It is your denial of that that made me so angry in the first place. *Originally Posted By Ivinia (7 JUL 2006 4:03pm)* Never in my wildest dreams did I ever think I would get into a pissing contest with you of all people. I find it extremely regrettable that all this seems to have spiraled out of control. Agreed.
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#31 8 JUL 2006 at 9:08pm
Deleted User	~~ Ivinia & Wimli ~~ As I wrote above, and will abide by :- This controversy could continue for ages, but I’m afraid that my time and energy are very limited. And so no matter if or what you reply to the above, this will be my very last post on the subject !! As I promised, I shall not reply to your last 2 posts in any way whatsoever! But more to the point IMHO (and wasting much less time!) I'm copying below from another Forum what I think is far more important ......................... ~~ Anonymous Game Creator 2 ~~ Congratulations and many MANY thanks. Considering the difficulties, setbacks, lack of budget, etc. I think it is an enormous achievement and almost a miracle that the game has actually been (more or less) finished and has turned out so wonderfully. Of course there are some criticisms (I myself have voiced some ... as the Developers know) ... but so long as they are CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms, that's OK in my book !! Of one thing I'm ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN .................. Various members of various Forums have complained vociferously about some Quest/Adventure companies being only interested in bottom line profits (maybe unfortunately a bitter fact of life & survival these days). I'm sure that Himalaya desperately hope to cover their outlays & hopefully make some profit as they deserve for all their work & dedication. However, this is most certainly a group of people who have dedicated a fair chunk of their lives to producing as good a game as they possibly can... fundamentally for the *love* of the thing, and their creative (artistic in the broadest sense) 'urges'! IMO, they deserve EVERY support we can possibly give them. True, we do not have to gloss over and 'condone' faults, but as far as possible we should realize the restrictions under which they have toiled for such a long time, and try to resist making purely negative & destructive criticisms. My 2 cents, pence, euros, rubles, shekels, whatever !!

#32 9 JUL 2006 at 7:37am
MysticFalls Intergalactic Janitor Posts : 29 Joined: 30 MAY 2006 Status : Online	OK, I am downloading the Demo at the moment via the FPT link so will take a while. I'll give it a go and then report whether Al Emmo's voice irritates me.
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#33 9 JUL 2006 at 7:10pm
Wimli Guild Master Posts : 3259 Joined: 14 MAR 2003 Status : Offline	@LenG: Ok, first you say that you won't reply to my posts. Fine. Then you throw a post from another forum into the mix, suggesting that by my negative post I showed that I do not respect the developer or the effort they have made with their game. That just about does it. You got there based on one small first impression I posted here on the demo of a game? Talk about far fetched conclusions, and what is more, for suggesting things that are simply not true! I have loads of respect for any developer out there like Himalaya. When one of the developers of Himalaya posted on this forum a few months back, asking for feedback on how they could market and distribute their game, I was one of the only one here to post a (hopefully helpful) reply. I just do not see the connection between the respect I may or may not have for a developer and posting my honest impression on the demo of their game. I could lie and say I thought it was all wonderful and perfect, but I don't think that attitude will do the developer nor the adventure game community any good. Nor do I believe that my previous post was completely 'purely negative & destructive', and that certainly doesn't describe the elaborate and detailed posts that Ivinia made. You may believe then that my opinion on the demo of Al Emmo showed a lack of respect for the developer, I say you have shown a surprising lack of respect for your fellow adventurers who happen to have a different opinion on this game.
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#34 9 JUL 2006 at 11:06pm
Ivinia Guild Master Posts : 4459 Joined: 7 JUN 2003 Location: US Status : Offline	This has all been pretty darned amusing. I popped over to the AG forums and ended up scratching my head over it all. I can only imagine that this is the result of developing a strong following from the KQ remakes. It's generally considered rude and in bad taste to rip on a freeware game. As such, people tended to be less critical of flaws and appreciated the effort. The problem is that this is a commercial game being sold. The same rules do not apply. Some people seem to have trouble making that adjustment and the long standing fans from the KQ remakes especially. Len, everytime you post something lately it comes across as attacking. but so long as they are CONSTRUCTIVE criticisms, that's OK in my book !! Based on your previous posts, the ones that you agree with are constructive, and the ones you do not agree with are purely negative & destructive criticisms. It's not like people are "ripping" on the game for being 3rd person and they only like 1st or any other such extreme. That's like wanting vanilla and screaming at a company for making chocolate. That would be an invalid comment. Now, if they politely said, "Sorry, this isn't my type of game because I don't like 3rd person." it would be a valid opinion. So far every comment has been valid. Those that don't think it was funny or hated the dialog is a valid statement. People who found the voices so annoying that they couldn't continue were valid opinions as well. But instead of saying, "Sorry you feel that way, not everyone will enjoy this type of humor or the sounds of the characters voices.", they've been jumped as being overly negative & destructive - even when they weren't. Ridiculous...
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#35 10 JUL 2006 at 3:48am
MysticFalls Intergalactic Janitor Posts : 29 Joined: 30 MAY 2006 Status : Online	[size=12]Well, I just finished the Demo and enjoyed it. Al's voice didn't bother me too much. He looks like a Dork and sounds like a Dork with adenoid problems, but so what? That is who he is.
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#36 17 JUL 2006 at 3:06pm
buni1161 Intergalactic Janitor Posts : 77 Joined: 16 JUL 2006 Status : Online	I just downloaded and started the Demo- and have to admit- Al's voice didn't bother me to much- he is a nerd and sounds like one- but that's just me- I guess after playing Starship titanic and listening to that famous parrot-sort of acclimatizes you to a certain amount of- Geez enough already- but I do love this game and am axiously awaiting the time when I can buy the whole game- [IMG]http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y1/buni1161/sigred-1.jpg[/IMG]
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#37 18 JUL 2006 at 7:00am
BazzaLB Private Detective Posts : 512 Joined: 27 AUG 2005 Location: AU Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By Lucien21 (29 JUN 2006 8:10pm)* *Originally Posted By LenG (29 JUN 2006 5:55pm)* Fortunately I'm a complete ignoramus with regard to Bit Torrent ... which I hear has all sorts of unpleasant 'side-effects' ?!? [smiley=embarassed.gif] So I downloaded it via FTP which also took my ADSL 2½ hours. But heh... it didn't worry me in the least; I had plenty of other things to do on my computer during the whole of that time! [smiley=cool.gif] [smiley=cheesy.gif] Used Bittorrent for years and never had any "Side Effects" Downloaded the demo in 30 mins this morning. Only side effect I have had from torrents is I keep blowing my monthly download limits I use uTorrent, not Bittorent though
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#38 18 JUL 2006 at 7:16am
BazzaLB Private Detective Posts : 512 Joined: 27 AUG 2005 Location: AU Status : Offline	*Originally Posted By MysticFalls (9 JUL 2006 7:36am)* OK, I am downloading the Demo at the moment via the FPT link so will take a while. I'll give it a go and then report whether Al Emmo's voice irritates me. hehe, yeah, this has me intrigued too... I am wanting to download and check this out at least to see if the voice irritates or not or at least see what all the fuss is about.. May turn out to be great marketing after all It always amazes me just where you will stumble across controversy on the JA forums. You just never know Actually, this game looks right up my ally and not because I'm an irritating balding fat 42 year old virgin (runs off to mirror for reassurance).
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Topic: A--Emmo: Demo & walkthrough(s)

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