| 29 JUN 2006 at 2:36pm |
gamesoverIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 1
Joined: 29 JUN 2006
Status : Online | I am so pleased that Len and Tally Ho sent this great walkthrough to me to post it on my site www.gamesover.com as well! Thanks for that guys!!!
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| 29 JUN 2006 at 4:16pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | At 2.5 hours to download the demo, I think I'll pass on this until there are more options. I don't want that bit torrent stuff on my PC, so that isn't an option either I'm afraid. Hopefully they'll find more sites to host the demo.
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| 29 JUN 2006 at 5:55pm |
| Deleted User | Fortunately I'm a complete ignoramus with regard to Bit Torrent ... which I hear has all sorts of unpleasant 'side-effects' ?!? [smiley=embarassed.gif]
So I downloaded it via FTP which also took my ADSL 2½ hours. But heh... it didn't worry me in the least; I had plenty of other things to do on my computer during the whole of that time! [smiley=cool.gif] [smiley=cheesy.gif]
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| 29 JUN 2006 at 8:07pm |
ShanyGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 19 JUN 2003
Status : Online | I started downloading it last night before I went to bed.
I finished the demo. It was fun! There are some flaws, but there is just so much do in each screen, even if it's not important to the plot at all, that I'm impressed!
So many different replies just for looking at the sky, or rocks, or cacti...
I did get stuck sometimes, but mostly it was because I forgot to talk to someone a second time.
Is there a list of all the easter eggs found? I found a few things that could be easter eggs, but they seemed to easy to get to really be easter eggs.
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| 29 JUN 2006 at 8:11pm |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By LenG (29 JUN 2006 5:55pm)
Fortunately I'm a complete ignoramus with regard to Bit Torrent ... which I hear has all sorts of unpleasant 'side-effects' ?!? [smiley=embarassed.gif]
So I downloaded it via FTP which also took my ADSL 2½ hours. But heh... it didn't worry me in the least; I had plenty of other things to do on my computer during the whole of that time! [smiley=cool.gif] [smiley=cheesy.gif]
Used Bittorrent for years and never had any "Side Effects"
Downloaded the demo in 30 mins this morning.
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 30 JUN 2006 at 12:47pm |
kuddlesPrivate Detective
Posts : 702
Joined: 22 OCT 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Lucien21 (29 JUN 2006 8:10pm)
Used Bittorrent for years and never had any "Side Effects"
Downloaded the demo in 30 mins this morning.
Indeed. I'm always pleased when I see companies/people using Bittorrent for larger files that are legally allowed to be distributed. It brings legitimacy to a wonderful, yet much-maligned, file sharing service.
[size=10][b]Games:[/b] Europa Universalis III&&[b]Music:[/b] [i]Awoo[/i] - Hidden Cameras&&[b]Series:[/b] Dexter (S1)&&[b]Movies:[/b] The Prestige (8/10) Little Miss Sunshine (5/10)&&[/size]
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| 30 JUN 2006 at 10:45pm |
tabaccoIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 15
Joined: 23 MAY 2004
Status : Online | In case nobody noticed the link in the AG article, I wrote a full how-to on using BitTorrent for those who've never heard of it or used it: http://www.adventuregamers.com/torrents.php
BitTorrent is not just a program for pirating music. Unlike stuff like Kazaa, it has true legitimate use. Other projects like OpenOffice and various Linux distributions use it for file distribution because of its ability to offer download rates far greater than those of the hosting server. If you read the link I provided and follow those instructions, you'll get a nice, clean, BitTorrent client that will not infect your computer with anything, show you ads, or bring the FBI to your door. BitTorrent gets a lot of negative mainstream publicity because people use it for piracy, but there's more than that.
Webmaster, [url=http://www.adventuregamers.com]Adventuregamers.com[/url]
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| 2 JUL 2006 at 11:11pm |
WimliGuild Master
Posts : 3259
Joined: 14 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | Or you're just lucky, live in Belgium or The Netherlands and found the Al Emmo demo on the cover dvd of PC Gameplay magazine.
Installed the demo, played it for a while, but got completely turned off by the horrible voice acting. Especially the voice of the main character is extremely annoying and irritating! Also, so far the 'funny' dialog between Al Emmo and the narrator just reminded me how hilarious those dialogs were in Larry 7, and are so not in this game. The graphics look ok, although at first sight they look like a rather uninspired rip-off of the town in Freddy Pharkas. I might give the demo another try soon, I still hope that underneath all these annoyances there's still a good game. For the moment, I won't be buying the full game though.
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| 4 JUL 2006 at 11:43pm |
GameDevBritIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 15
Joined: 9 APR 2006
Status : Online | I'm sorry to hear you're not enjoying the voice acting, Wimli. If you continue to play, I've heard from nearly everyone who has completed the game, that the voices did grow on them, and that eventually, they couldn't imagine another voice for either Al or the narrator.
As for the graphics, it's not possible that they're a rip-off of Freddy Pharkus, since we didn't play the game. Although, they are based heavily on a gold mining town in the southwest and the local landscapes. I do hope that you'll give the demo another try. The demo is most of the first act of the game, and there are nine acts in total. In the first act, you basically meet many of the characters and start to get a feel for the game. The deeper story starts to seriously develop in the next few acts...
Britney Brimhall&&Chairman & CEO&&Himalaya Studios, LLC&&http://www.himalayastudios.com
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| 5 JUL 2006 at 12:15am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | I agree that the voices do start to grow on you. I think its difficult to convince people of that. It's that old saying of first impressions.
I'm going through a bit of that myself over here. My game takes a bit to get the hang of it. Unforfortunately, most people might give up early on it, so some tweaking is in order. That first impression is very important to making a sale and I can't expect people to stick with it.
Al Emmo's voice seems to rub most people the wrong way. At least that seems to be the impression you get around the forums. I know it's late in the dev process, but if there was some way to pull it into a sound program and tone it down a bit it might help. I dunno, just a thought. :-/
BTW, I thought the Singing in the Rain and the I'm Your Gal stuff was hysterical. I still have that Gal song in my head - just can't seem to shake it!
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| 5 JUL 2006 at 8:19pm |
| Deleted User | I am very surprised at the negative reaction of some very prestigious Adventurers to the voice acting in Al Emmo… some of it quite egregious!
I have played very many games (I’ve never counted how many but it certainly runs into the 3 figures) and I haven’t come across such a consistently superb team of voice actors in many a long year. Every one a winner!
Apart from several characters in the Intro, the Demo only introduces you, very superficially, to Kevin, Bubba… and son, Koko, Bill (the piano player), the station master, the mayor, Rita, Antonio, as well as Al & the narrator. True, the latter pair declaim a large portion of the speech, but altogether there are over 30 very different characters & voices, each a personality in his/her own right!
For some people to condemn the game on the basis of this relatively small cross section is IMHO unreasonable.
What seems to have eluded some folk is the second word of voice-ACTING! Al is not your handsome, sexy, masculine, ultra-heroic, simpatico, Indiana Jones, Gabriel Knight, Tex Murphy, etc. Exactly the opposite. He is a whiney, wimpy, nerdy, nebbish. He’s the antithesis of all our Adventure heroes (and heroines) and as such is ACTED to perfection!
How SHOULD he sound? He’s 42 y.o. and never been kissed. You can all see that he’s short, and stubby and semi-bald and bespectacled … should he sound like superman? The strange thing is that as the game progresses he gradually wins the respect of most of the weird characters inhabiting Anizora and even overcomes the baddy.
I am very far from a film, play or game critic, but would you have had Dustin Hoffman playing the sniveling ‘Ratso’ in “Midnight Cowboy” sound like Sean Connery in the first James Bond films. After a trailer, would you have said about that near classic film “Oh … I’m not going to see that film … I can’t stand Dustin’s anti-heroic ghastly whining voice”?
BTW:- There are many EXTREMELY positive aspects about the game which are not present in other games. These, the complainers fail to mention… even though they are present in the demo!
One considerable plus, which of course CANNOT be present in the demo, is the complete wrap-up cut scene ending (I’m obviously not going to spoil the conclusion by giving it away!).
Incidentally :- There have been far too many games recently where the ending has just been left up in the air with tons of loose ends untied!.
This has provided the aficionados with long threads on several Forums offering erudite interpretations of what the end of the abovementioned games actually ’mean’.
I may be doing the Developers an injustice, but in actual fact however I believe that in most cases there is NO ‘meaning’. They have simply not worked out their story to the very end and left much unresolved. In some cases, time & cash restraints have forced a premature release.
This is certainly not the case with Al Emmo where the EXACT written description of the rounded-off ending was submitted to the beta testers months ago (before it was even fully completed technically)!
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| 5 JUL 2006 at 8:34pm |
| Deleted User | ~~ To the Developers of Al Emmo (Himalaya Studios & particularly the superb Britney Brimhall & Christopher Warren) ~~
I would VERY strongly urge you to consider the suggestions made here re providing an Internet download option for El Ammo.
Living as I do in Israel, somewhere around 12,000 kms from Arizona, in a country which (unfortunately) stopped developing Quest/Adventures a decade ago, I have had a GREAT deal of experience of receiving games from around the world.
I personally don’t go crazy over game boxes (although I have more in store than space permits).
International airmail from USA to here for a jewel-cased or DVD-cased single CD game in a protected jiffy bag or whatever, generally costs only around US$2½ to US$3½. But boxed games usually cost twice or sometimes 3 times as much. Delivery times (barring accidents) for both usually take between 9 to 11 days from mailing.
In one or two odd cases I have had to pay additional customs duty here on arrival, and security checks can sometimes delay arrival even further!
AFAIK, almost everybody here does not have FULL broadband, but pretty well evryone like me, has ADSL. In theory, ADSL should allow download of say 700 MB in about 1½ hours. In practice it seems to take 3 or even 4 times that long. However, 4 or 5 hours of download is no hardship whatsoever since it hardly disturbs other SIMULTANEOUS work on the computer. Alternatively it can be downloaded during nighttime sleep.
(Incidentally, if problematic, the Developers can easily break down the 700 MB into small units for recombination after download).
I have a feeling that a large number of potential players (certainly not all, and probably not those still on the [ rapidly becoming obsolete ] dial up) and particularly non Americans, would be happier to pay US$30 and no more and be able to play their game the same day, rather than paying around US$38 (and possibly some additional VAT or Customs Duty), waiting probably a week & a half (and keeping fingers crossed that there is no postal or air strike or other interruption) for the sake of obtaining a boxed version.
I would certainly be one of the former group!
That’s my pure speculation… anyway!
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| 5 JUL 2006 at 9:39pm |
ShanyGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 19 JUN 2003
Status : Online | I think people are confusing voice acting with characterization(sp?). Al Emmo has a whiny voice because he's a loser (or starts out as one).
(Rant) I have to say that I don't understand why some writers believe that to create a character that is supposed to be laughed at, they have to give it every stereotype possible - so, to make sure we know Al is a loser, he wears thick eyeglasses, is chubby, balding with a combover, has a whiny voice, is a 42 year old virgin (clueless about sex), lives with his parents, orders a bride without realizing he needs money, and still depends on his parents for money.
I mean, it's obvious with half those traits and I'll probably like the character better without all those flaws (stereotypes), and feel that he's a real character and not a caricature. (end rant)
I kind of liked the narrator, but it feels like he never stops for air . There is so much to interact with so when the narrator talks in that 'I'm better than you' tone of his about every single thing you click on, it gets on your nerves pretty fast.
The other voices were pretty good. The bad guy annoyed me (that lisp...), and the mayor sounded a little weird but the rest were ok - I liked Kevin and the piano player. Still not sure what I think of Koko (other than he's stoned).
About downloading, I agree, let us download for 30$, or a little less since there's no packaging, and we'll burn it on CD ourselves. It's nice to have that option for people who don't want the trouble and cost of shipping (or are too impatient to wait so long!).
That being said, I already pre-ordered mine.
My only problem with this game so far is that I heard the last chapter is full of timed sequences. [smiley=shudder.gif] [smiley=shudder.gif] [smiley=shudder.gif]
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| 5 JUL 2006 at 10:19pm |
WimliGuild Master
Posts : 3259
Joined: 14 MAR 2003
Status : Offline |
@GameDevBrit:
First of all, I didn't mean to come down so hard on the game. I mean, it was only my first impression, I will give the demo another try! Plus, didn't know you'd be reading all this, otherwise I probably would have used other wordings for my impressions. Kudos on checking in on reactions on the game on adventure websites! Only a handful of developers (of commercial releases) stay in touch with their core audience. That certainly deserves respect.
Originally Posted By GameDevBrit (4 JUL 2006 11:43pm)
I'm sorry to hear you're not enjoying the voice acting, Wimli. If you continue to play, I've heard from nearly everyone who has completed the game, that the voices did grow on them, and that eventually, they couldn't imagine another voice for either Al or the narrator.
As for the graphics, it's not possible that they're a rip-off of Freddy Pharkus, since we didn't play the game. Although, they are based heavily on a gold mining town in the southwest and the local landscapes. I do hope that you'll give the demo another try. The demo is most of the first act of the game, and there are nine acts in total. In the first act, you basically meet many of the characters and start to get a feel for the game. The deeper story starts to seriously develop in the next few acts...
As I said before, I'll give it another shot soon, you could definitely be right on the voice acting. It's happened before that some voice acting took some time getting used to. I'll post something here when I've finished the demo.
Didn't say the graphics of Al Emmo were a rip-off, I said they looked like one. Check out some screenshots of Freddy Pharkas, and you'll know what I mean. It probably has more to do with the setting of both games and the Sierra style of both games. I didn't mean to imply that you had simply copied the backgrounds of your game. Again, wrong wording I suppose. :-[
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| 5 JUL 2006 at 10:33pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Len - You kind of lost me here. I don't think anyone ever said he should sound macho or anything like that. Nor did anyone say it was bad voice acting. The words that seem to constantly come up in describing it are 'irritating' and 'annoying'. No one has said anything about the voice acting being bad, just the sound of the voice. One of the comparisons made was that he sounded like Urkel.
Parts of the demo have really great moments.
Here are my impressions.
- Himilaya logo at the start of the game. A bit pixelated and muted colors. That's ok, its a demo, maybe they over compressed it to make the download smaller. Hopefully the final purchased game will have a bit richer looking logo. It's the 1st thing people see and their impressions start there. A simple Himilaya logo that fades in, then out would have been more effective. I think it would have also made that very first impression a positive one instead of neutral. If they ditched the whole mountain sequence and just started with the "Himilaya" word with "studios' with the volumetric lighting it would have been good. (I.E., the last 3 seconds of that intro movie).
- Game Menu. Sweet. Very nice. Any reservations the company logo might have hinted at were thrown out the window. This game looks pretty darned sharp. Music is outstanding. My eyes were led to the bottom of the screen to the text that is not on the parchment. For a few seconds, I'm left trying to figure out how to start this thing. The yellow text on the beige background made it a bit difficult to find, although only for a few seconds.
- Start new game, get the comic like image while the game loads. Very nice again. I'm really looking forward to this!
- Game starts. Graphically a bit unpolished, but that's ok. It has that old-style feel to it. Little dust clouds blow up in the corner of the screen. Nice touch. Train pulls out. Here we go, I'm excited!
- Al speaks. What the heck? Thats annoying. The narrator joins in. He was a bit over the top. No biggie. I get it. He's supposed to be like a game show announcer. Al's voice and the announcer caught me off guard and left a somewhat negative impression. It wouldn't have been bad if they were elsewhere in the game, but these are the two voices the player will be hearing throughout the game. Not really something that players would look forward to, ya know?
- I click on various things and get various responses. It becomes pretty evident that a lot of work and attention to detail has gone into this game. Al's voice becomes less annoying. The Singing in the Rain gets me laughing for the shear corniness of it. Nice touch, nice attention to details. This game has me wanting to continue on.
- Get to town. Do some exploring. Not too bad. While I dislike waiting for a character to walk across the screen, double-clicking will get Al to run. However, if you use a hand to open a door or the mouth to talk and Al is across the screen, you are stuck with the hourglass as he slowly walks over there. I tried to get into the habit of running to a spot before using the hand or mouth, but when you forget, it becomes a bit tiresome.
- In the saloon. Cool. Lots to look at and examine. Somewhat humorous dialogs, etc. Graphical glitch when trying to go to your room upstairs. I felt like my character got lost. Having him disappear like that and not come out takes you out of things for a brief moment and feels uncomfortable if that makes any sense.
- The "I'm your Gal" song. It really threw me off with the jump to lower quality 3d renders, but I can overlook that as a player. The song itself was so cheesy and funny. I really liked it for being what it was. The damn song is still in my head. Nice job there.
- More exploring. The constant narrator with his over the top speech telling me I can't go here or there in the demo started to get annoying and frustrating. It started to feel like pop-up ads on websites trying to get me to buy a product. The color choices on the kid had me walking past him several times before I even noticed he was there. I'm starting to loose interest in the game and getting bored with the little tasks that just don't seem to add up to anything. I have no idea why I am here.
- Ok, I've been running around for 20 minutes bored out of my skull with no clue as to where this damn flagpole is. I'm forced to go to a walkthrough, which is something I hate doing. Find out where the flagpole is. Now I'm just ticked off. I clicked around there so many times and all Al did was walk over and no new locations were revealed. Spoiler AlertTurned out I had to click the tree top behind a building to get there. That's an unfair and bad hotspot. I lost interest in the game and quit.
It's sad too. I was really looking forward to seeing what they came up with. When you hear that they had a staff of 20 people and this was in development for 4 years, your expectations become pretty high.
I'm not ripping on them. I think they took on an ambitious project. Maybe too ambitious. I read about their struggles and somehow scaling things back probably would have been a better option than forging ahead as best they could.
Going to their site to see a price of $59. That was the collectors edition, but again, there's that 1st impression thing. Why advertise the most expensive one 1st? Again, these are just my impressions as a potential customer. :-/
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| 5 JUL 2006 at 11:23pm |
| Deleted User | ~~ Ivinia ~~ The words that seem to constantly come up in describing it are 'irritating' and 'annoying'.
Whilst granting that Al's voice is somewhat over the top (and Himalaya Studios will doubtless have got that message by now ... loud & clear!), how many times does it have to be repeated that he is MEANT to be 'irritating' and 'annoying'.
He wouldn't be Al Emmo if he wasn't. You don't "like" him ... OK ..... why should you? You don't identify with him ..... don't! You don't see him as your standard hero in a Quest/Adventure ...... he isn't (for a change!!) :- so many people complain that the typecast mould keeps repeating itself, and why isn't there something original? All the 'heroes' and nowadays 'heroines' are beginning to sound like replicas!
While I dislike waiting for a character to walk across the screen, double-clicking will get Al to run. However, if you use a hand to open a door or the mouth to talk and Al is across the screen, you are stuck with the hourglass as he slowly walks over there.
I fail to understand this criticism TOTALLY.
It has been pointed out more than once that absolutely on the contrary, this game as opposed to so many others, all you have to do is put your left finger on the Esc key and click the 'walk-crosshair'. Al is INSTANTANEOUSLY transported to that spot ... frequently at the extreme other extremity of the screen.
C'mon now. Be fair! How many games have you played (I am testing a brand new one at the moment) where the Developers force you to traipse from one side or point on the screen to another... it fills in time, & obviates the Reviewer's 'Kiss of Death' "The game is too short!"!!
Even if the 'hero' can run, there is nothing as easy and time/frustration saving as that in Al Emmo.
But instead of acknowledging an obvious unusual plus, you see fit to criticize it.
I simply don't understand why!
Maybe I'm just dumb??
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| 5 JUL 2006 at 11:28pm |
WimliGuild Master
Posts : 3259
Joined: 14 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By LenG (5 JUL 2006 8:18pm)
I am very surprised at the negative reaction of some very prestigious Adventurers to the voice acting in Al Emmo… some of it quite egregious!
I agree my tone was wrong in my previous post, but I must say that I don't much care for your tone as well.
I have played very many games and I haven’t come across such a consistently superb team of voice actors in many a long year.
Well, that's your opinion, and I respect that. Why can't you accept the opinion of others?
For some people to condemn the game on the basis of this relatively small cross section is IMHO unreasonable.
First of all, this is a thread about the DEMO of Al Emmo, so as I stated, I posted my impressions on the DEMO of this game. Read: NOT CONDEMNING THE FULL GAME. Hope it got through to you this time.
What seems to have eluded some folk is the second word of voice-ACTING! Al is not your handsome, sexy, masculine, ultra-heroic, simpatico, Indiana Jones, Gabriel Knight, Tex Murphy, etc. He is a whiney, wimpy, nerdy, nebbish. He’s the antithesis of all our Adventure heroes (and heroines) and as such is ACTED to perfection!
Disagree again. Larry Laffer is whiney, wimpy, nerdy as well, yet I LOVED the voice acting in Larry 7, from the very start of the game. Ditto for the voice of the narrator in that game and the bickering between the two. Difference? in acting (and maybe writing/humor). Larry made me laugh out loud, Al Emmo makes me cringe. Maybe that'll change when I play it longer, maybe not.
How SHOULD he sound? He’s 42 y.o. and never been kissed. You can all see that he’s short, and stubby and semi-bald and bespectacled … should he sound like superman?
Now you're just being silly, where did anyone imply anything like that? Sure, this guy is not superman, so he should not be voiced like that. Yes, Al Emmo is a loser, and yes he should be voiced like one, but that doesn't mean he has to sound so annoying that you run away from the game. You somewhere have to like the guy, I mean you are playing him. Again, before you start raging again, I'm not talking about the whole game, I'm talking about my impressions the demo gave me.
I am very far from a film, play or game critic, but would you have had Dustin Hoffman playing the sniveling Ratso in Midnight Cowboy sound like Sean Connery in the first James Bond films. After a trailer, would you have said about that near classic film Oh … I’m not going to see that film I can’t stand Dustin’s anti-heroic ghastly whining voice?
Oh God, this really is an argument that is going nowhere! Firstly, comparing games and movies: totally different media, just doesn't fly. Second, same as above, the answer to your question is of course not. It's not the annoying voice alone, it's not that this type of voice is not suitable for the character, the problem is that the ACTING is annoying as well (personal opinion, like yours). Again, maybe it'll grow on me when I play more of the game. Just to remind you once more I was talking about the DEMO. And another thing, comparing Dustin Hoffman to the voice acting in Al Emmo (and AG voice action in general)? please :.
You then connect it to a whole different element: going to the movie/buying the full game. I don't know about you, but I do play demos to decide whether I'll spend money from my tiny student budget on the full game. If there are various elements I don't like about a demo, then I don't buy the game, simple as that. I don't have the money to buy every adventure out there and then see whether the demo was representative of the game. Still, I don't base my spending on games on the demo alone, but do include what has been written about it. In this case I still hold the glowing preview Aya wrote on the game in the back of my mind, as I know his and my tastes as far as adventures is concerned is similar. As for reviews: don't know the JA reviewer for this game, so not a big factor for me, do know the reviewer of PC Gameplay and he gave the game 69% (bigger factor). And the same goes for movies. If a movie I'm interested in has a fantastic trailer, next to positive buzz and includes actors, directors and technical crew of whom I like the previous work, then chances are I'm going to see that film. If the trailer sucks, that's indeed an element that will come into play the next time I visit the theater, not the only one though. But again, movies and games, two different things, can't compare them. For one thing, there's the important element of gameplay, something a demo is supposed to show some impression of. Fact remains though, that I can't see every film on release, just like I can't play every game out there. So I do need elements that help me decide which game to buy and which ones I'll leave at the store. Demos are one of those elements.
BTW:- There are many EXTREMELY positive aspects about the game which are not present in other games. These, the complainers fail to mention… even though they are present in the demo!
Well, that must be then cause I haven't noticed them yet. Besides, that's your subjective opinion of the game, no written law. Very similar to my opinion on the demo of this game. Now I can see that, why can't you? Btw, where is your list of negative aspects on the game? I'm sure they are present as well.
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| 6 JUL 2006 at 12:48am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By LenG (5 JUL 2006 11:23pm)
Whilst granting that Al's voice is somewhat over the top (and Himalaya Studios will doubtless have got that message by now ... loud & clear!), how many times does it have to be repeated that he is MEANT to be 'irritating' and 'annoying'.
Think about what you are saying here. If he was meant to be irritating and annoying and people are saying he is that way, then go ahead and be happy for doing what was intended. On the other side of the coin, you shouldn't feel any need to complain back when people walked away with the impression that they were meant to have.
It's hardly a great selling point though, don't you think? Would you by a product that was meant to annoy and irritate you?
He wouldn't be Al Emmo if he wasn't. You don't "like" him ... OK ..... why should you? You don't identify with him ..... don't! You don't see him as your standard hero in a Quest/Adventure ...... he isn't (for a change!!) :- so many people complain that the typecast mould keeps repeating itself, and why isn't there something original? All the 'heroes' and nowadays 'heroines' are beginning to sound like replicas!
Now Len, you're going off in a different direction a bit don't you think? No one criticized Al for not being a heroic character. No one complained about him being different and a non-standard hero. I've only read one comment about people not liking him because of his looks. It was the sound of his voice that annoyed people. It was nothing to do with being able to relate to him or whether he was liked or not.
I fail to understand this criticism TOTALLY.
It has been pointed out more than once that absolutely on the contrary, this game as opposed to so many others, all you have to do is put your left finger on the Esc key and click the 'walk-crosshair'. Al is INSTANTANEOUSLY transported to that spot ... frequently at the extreme other extremity of the screen.
That goes to a whole other issue of consistancy in the user interface. If double-clicking makes him run from one end of the screen to another, it would stand to reason that double-clicking the hand icon on a door would do the same. Having to do something 'special' for what essentially amounts to the same thing. I'm also a firm believer that if the user is required to read a manual to play your game, then maybe you should rework the interface.
If you have to make a special effort to "point it out", then something is wrong. You are also assuming that the player hangs on your every word and searches these things out. There are way too many games out there to choose from.
Here's a thought. While being forced to listen to the announcer tell you all sorts of stuff at the beginning of the demo that essentially told you he was the narrator, maybe that time and speech could have better been spent with him giving you a quick run down of the interface.
C'mon now. Be fair! How many games have you played (I am testing a brand new one at the moment) where the Developers force you to traipse from one side or point on the screen to another... it fills in time, & obviates the Reviewer's 'Kiss of Death' "The game is too short!"!!
Even if the 'hero' can run, there is nothing as easy and time/frustration saving as that in Al Emmo.
C'mon now. Be realistic. How many times have you heard players say they hate that? id you miss the numerous aptly named Kate Walker threads? Fine, I get it. They addressed that. It should have been more obvious or should have at least been pointed out within the game. How many people are there out there that tried the demo who do not read the forums?
But instead of acknowledging an obvious unusual plus, you see fit to criticize it.
I simply don't understand why!
Maybe I'm just dumb??
No Len, you are not dumb. I think you were just so wrapped up into it because of beta testing that you see things from the other side and were able to get info on how things worked and were meant to be. That whole ESC/click thing. Did you know about that when you first played it? id you read a manual first? Was the interface explained to you?
If you did, then you are going on the assumption that others should do the same thing. They don't. People download it, play it, and decide whether they like it or not.
Ya know, in my post that you are quoting, I said quite a few good things about the demo - even that I got used to Al voice. ("Al's voice becomes less annoying." Why would you pick out two negative comments and blast away? Heck, those weren't even that bad, I continued on. It was the bad placement of a hotspot that killed it all for me.
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| 6 JUL 2006 at 1:29am |
| Deleted User | No Len, you are not dumb. I think you were just so wrapped up into it because of beta testing that you see things from the other side and were able to get info on how things worked and were meant to be.
I doubt that assumption is correct. I think the other beta testers & Developers will tell you that I was maybe one of the chief critics of some tangible troubles ... not subjective ones.
There are some possible criticisms & differences of opinion in the game later on (Act-3 & 4). I have not voiced them either on any Forums or in the beta-testing phase. To my mind they are more subjectively personal than the possibly minor irritations of Al's voice.
Let's see when the game is released.
Once again, why so much negative criticism (of the DEMO ... not the unreleased game) without positive praise for the OBVIOUS (fairly unique) strong points of the demo (& hence the game)?
I can only remember one other game where you can scroll QUICKLY & EASILY through every item of the inventory without having to go through the horrible tedium of selecting an item & returning it, selecting another item & returning it, ad infinitum?
Why is this aspect not praised immensely? But only the criticism?
Perhaps you know of plenty of games where this is implemented? I don't!
How many games have you played where almost every single item tried has an individual APT response .... hundreds & hundreds of them (as seen in the demo)?
As opposed to the dozens of games which take the cheap & boring way out of repetitive generic "That doesn't work', "You can't do that", etc. With a once in a blue moon an exceptional specific come-back.
Every game has it's pros & cons. It almost seems that some folk (for reasons unknown) are only too quick on the trigger with the former, whilst choosing to underplay or neglect the latter.
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| 6 JUL 2006 at 2:33am |
challis3Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 84
Joined: 13 DEC 2004
Status : Online | Whoa- it seems that you are taking things personally just because someone has a difference of opinion- should we only point out the positive aspects of the game? Where is the outrage when other indie games are criticized? The point of these forums is to express opinions- which by their very nature are neither right or wrong. I was also completely turned off by Al's voice- I get that he is an anti-hero, which doesn't have to equate with nails on the chalkboard annoying. There are also a number of things I liked about the game, the humor, the graphics, but among all the forums, I am getting really uncomfortable with the people that are jumping on anyone that dares say anything negative about the game.
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| 6 JUL 2006 at 2:40am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By LenG (6 JUL 2006 1:29am)
I doubt that assumption is correct. I think the other beta testers & Developers will tell you that I was maybe one of the chief critics of some tangible troubles ... not subjective ones.
There are some possible criticisms & differences of opinion in the game later on (Act-3 & 4). I have not voiced them either on any Forums or in the beta-testing phase. To my mind they are more subjectively personal than the possibly minor irritations of Al's voice.
Let's see when the game is released.
Len, what's happened to you? I think what you are saying here is wrong on many levels. As a beta tester, you're being trusted to to test, give opinions, etc. Certain things about the behind the scenes testing are supposed to be confidential. Your above post seems to imply that there are problems with the game that you are keeping to yourself right now, but might make them known publicly after the game is released. Your also implying there are problems with the game that we haven't even seen yet until we buy it. Why would you do that? That just sounds wrong to me.
I also didn't understand your posts on the forums "To the developers". You're a beta tester. Why wouldn't you just talk to them directly? Why do something like that on a public forum? I can see that maybe it was a slip, but you posted the same thing on two forums. It leaves me scratching my head.
Once again, why so much negative criticism (of the DEMO ... not the unreleased game) without positive praise for the OBVIOUS (fairly unique) strong points of the demo (& hence the game)?
I can only assume you are referring to me since you quoted what I wrote when you started this post. id you not read what I wrote?
"Sweet. Very nice."
"This game looks pretty darned sharp."
" Music is outstanding."
" Very nice again. I'm really looking forward to this!"
" Little dust clouds blow up in the corner of the screen. Nice touch."
"Here we go, I'm excited!"
"It becomes pretty evident that a lot of work and attention to detail has gone into this game."
" Nice touch, nice attention to details. This game has me wanting to continue on."
"Cool. Lots to look at and examine. Somewhat humorous dialogs, etc. "
...not sure how you can say I didn't give any positive praise.
I can only remember one other game where you can scroll QUICKLY & EASILY through every item of the inventory without having to go through the horrible tedium of selecting an item & returning it, selecting another item & returning it, ad infinitum?
Why is this aspect not praised immensely? But only the criticism?
Perhaps you know of plenty of games where this is implemented? I don't!
Ok, apparently I missed an innovation here. I'm used to either moving my mouse to the top or bottom of the screen or right clicking to bring up the inventory. Having to go to the top right corner of the screen, wait for the parchment list to appear, then clicking inventory, then having the inventory appear seems like a lot more steps than the majority of AGs out there. I don't know where this is considered quick and easy.
How many games have you played where almost every single item tried has an individual APT response .... hundreds & hundreds of them (as seen in the demo)?
As opposed to the dozens of games which take the cheap & boring way out of repetitive generic "That doesn't work', "You can't do that", etc. With a once in a blue moon an exceptional specific come-back
Every game has it's pros & cons. It almost seems that some folk (for reasons unknown) are only too quick on the trigger with the former, whilst choosing to underplay or neglect the latter..
Ok, there is no way you are talking to me even though its implied by quoting me. Especially when I said:
"I click on various things and get various responses. It becomes pretty evident that a lot of work and attention to detail has gone into this game. Al's voice becomes less annoying. The Singing in the Rain gets me laughing for the shear corniness of it. Nice touch, nice attention to details. This game has me wanting to continue on. "
...and if you are, then I'm starting to hear the Twilight Zone theme song in my head.
I really tried to give my honest impressions of the demo. What I liked and what I didn't like. I didn't come out blasting away calling it crap or any other derogatory terms. I took the time to explain why certain things didn't work for me. I can't help but feel that the positive comments were completely ignored while the negative ones were blown into huge proportions. Aya spoke highly of this game and I trust his judgement. I have a lot of respect for Britney as well and her passion for AGs is obvious. I seriously doubt she would put out a bad game. The issues people have with the game are not impossible to rectify - unless of course the CDs have already been burned, then it becomes a financial thing.
Reading the interviews and knowing what she has gone through to bring this thing to light, I think it would be a huge tragedy if it gets panned because of a few bad decisions made out of 100's of good ones - especially if many of those bad ones can be fixed pretty quickly. Sadly, it's those bad spots that really stand out and overshadow the good.
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| 6 JUL 2006 at 9:40am |
ErpyIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 74
Joined: 18 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Some stuff can be fixed, some stuff can't. There's been criticism on the shipping rates and we've been looking into it in order to see if we can get them lowered without paying all the difference out of our own pocket. There's been comments on certain screens being hard to find and we've worked to implement the feature where the walk cursor turns into an exit icon if it's over a place you can walk off the screen.
Those were the kind of things we can fix. We can't go and re-record (and re-lip sync) over 1500 lines of dialogue because people were put off with the protagonist's voice. We can only promise people that it DOES grow on you as you progress. Yes, the 3D cutscenes weren't top-of-the-bill 3D (and were encoded at a relatively low bitrate in order to fit on the CD), but two of the three are seen in the first act while there's several more comic scenes to come. (if you did like those)
I can see what you say with the interface, but there aren't many "hidden" tricks...not enough to justify an entire tutorial. (and we have the hunch that most people would speed-click through that anyhow) The escape key can be used to skip instantly to the character's walking destination (or if he's performing an animation, skips to the end of that animation), the tab-key or middle mouse button can be used to activate the inventory and the mouse wheel can be used to scroll through the inventory while it's on screen or cycle through the various inventory items if the cursor is in inventory-mode, but the inventory is NOT on screen. I guess some people do indeed not read manuals, although that's really their loss. The manual's been designed by the same people who are behind the Al Emmo website and it's been crafted into a documentation with fictional interviews, "useful" information about the setting and the shortcuts mentioned. I personally found it a very pleasant and especially humorous read. We tried to make the manual reminiscant of the Sierra documentation (like the magazines that came with Quest for Glory) from the time when manuals were often more than just a list of keyboard shortcuts and error messages.
[img]http://www.agdiforums.com/forum/images/avatars/moodpics/Nashswt.jpg[/img]
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| 6 JUL 2006 at 10:40am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Erpy (6 JUL 2006 9:39am)
Some stuff can be fixed, some stuff can't. There's been criticism on the shipping rates and we've been looking into it in order to see if we can get them lowered without paying all the difference out of our own pocket. There's been comments on certain screens being hard to find and we've worked to implement the feature where the walk cursor turns into an exit icon if it's over a place you can walk off the screen.
I don't know if that would fix the part that I quit on. I really think the hotspot itself needs to be moved. All other areas within the demo were pretty obvious I think. If I'm understanding you correctly, it sounds like my mouse would have to be over the exit. I would have never dreamed of putting it at the top of a building. :-/
Those were the kind of things we can fix. We can't go and re-record (and re-lip sync) over 1500 lines of dialogue because people were put off with the protagonist's voice. We can only promise people that it DOES grow on you as you progress. Yes, the 3D cutscenes weren't top-of-the-bill 3D (and were encoded at a relatively low bitrate in order to fit on the CD), but two of the three are seen in the first act while there's several more comic scenes to come. (if you did like those)
Although the voice was annoying, as I said, I continued on and it became less annoying. I really wanted to see what tricks you guys had put into this. The show stopper was that hotspot. While you can get used to the voices, when you are running around for 20 minutes trying to find a location that should be easy to get to, those voices start to become irritating again. Especially when the narrator is basically making fun of you for being stupid and talking to you in a condescending tone.
I was ok with the 3D cutscenes. They stood out and didn't fit in, but I can overlook things like that in an indie game. I was laughing my ass off over the song. I really thought it was funny and well done.
I just now saw the introduction movie for the first time. When I played the demo, I just clicked start new game - missed the intro entirely. I'm not sure why separating the two like that was done. Usually when you start a new game, the intro plays. I guess that explains part of the reason I was sitting there trying to figure out what the heck my purpose was, why the bartender took my dollar, and why I needed to cash in my train tickets. :-/
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| 6 JUL 2006 at 11:51am |
| Deleted User | Len, what's happened to you? I think what you are saying here is wrong on many levels. As a beta tester, you're being trusted to to (??) test, give opinions, etc. Certain things about the behind the scenes testing are supposed to be confidential. Your above post seems to imply that there are problems with the game that you are keeping to yourself right now, but might make them known publicly after the game is released. Your also implying there are problems with the game that we haven't even seen yet until we buy it. Why would you do that? That just sounds wrong to me.
You seem to have turned this into a personal censure instead of a factual discussion. I wonder why?
I have beta-tested well over two dozen games over a period of 10 years and am now entrusted by Developers with beta-testing 4 more commercial games simultaneously.
With all due respect, I hardly think I need your above reprimands as to the correct &/or incorrect job & behavior of a beta-tester!
The assessment of voice acting is very personal & subjective like many other aspects of games and other creative activities. Those who think it’s bad will not be convinced by any ‘logical’ arguments, and those who find it unbearable will not purchase the game. The Developers of Al Emmo will no doubt take this into consideration when they (very hopefully) start on their next game.
BTW:- I have so far seen an A-rated review on JA+, a thoroughly positive preview on AG and another one on 4Fchicks. I haven’t read them carefully, but AFAIK, none has criticized the voices of either Al or the narrator (to say nothing of the other 28 or so FIRST CLASS voice actors)!
I don’t mind discussing or even arguing about pros & cons of any game… which in any case are only OPINIONS and hence largely subjective.
I do however take exception to your personal & contradictory statements, made possibly due to complete lack of knowledge of some facts.
{1} “I think you were just so wrapped up into it because of beta testing that you see things from the other side.”
In your above previous post you imply that I do not (did not) see any flaws in the game due to the fact that I was “so wrapped up into it” and hence can only “see things from the other side”.
{2} As a beta tester, you're being trusted to to (??) test, give opinions, etc.
When I replied in rebuttal that I most certainly pointed out certain flaws, you contradict yourself :- "As a beta tester, you're being trusted to to test, give opinions, etc."
{3} I have a principle when beta testing which you may or may not agree with.
Beta testing is not alpha testing… it is, or should be, the final run through when the game is virtually ready shortly to go gold. As such it’s function is MAINLY to iron out any actual bugs, dead-ends, illogicalities, etc. It is also to recommend SMALL and ‘reasonably repairable’ improvements.
IMHO, the job of a beta tester is not to suggest to the Developer(s) an absolute radical alteration of the game which will take days weeks or months to reconstruct. This is/was the job of the alpha & in-house testers. For a beta-tester to suggest BASIC alterations of a game is simply impractical … its only effect being to create depression amongst the Developers who (every one) have worked for ages on their oeuvre … it would serve no constructive purpose whatsoever IMO!
{4} In the particular case of Al-Emmo, the 30 or so beta testers were divided into 3 groups. The first to do the slog-work, the second to iron out as many bugs as possible. I was in the 3rd and final group of a half a dozen whose relatively short job (since considerably extended) was to be the first to play the full game including the final cut scene and to merely provide the finishing ‘touch-up’ repairs and recommendations.
Quite obviously, there would have been absolutely no constructive purpose for me and the other 5 to suggest radical alterations in the game… as outlined in {3} above!
{5} Your (??) also implying there are problems with the game.
Incidentally, you’ve also twisted & slanted my words. I posted something quite different, namely :-
There are some possible criticisms & differences of opinion in the game later on (Act-3 & 4). I have not voiced them either on any Forums or in the beta-testing phase. To my mind they are more subjectively personal than the possibly minor irritations of Al's voice.
possible criticisms & differences of opinion are exactly what they say and are NOT problems!
Whether or not there are or aren’t such subjective criticisms, as I continued …. “Let's see when the game is released” … I believe that some will applaud and others decry … but once again, this is not something which can be superficially altered at the last moment . On the contrary, it would involve completely scrapping & revising a very great chunk of the game.
So, again as outlined in {3} what would be (or have been) the point in even mentioning such a controversial topic??
This controversy could continue for ages, but I’m afraid that my time and energy are very limited.
[size=16]And so no matter if or what you reply to the above, this will be my very last post on the subject !!
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