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| 21 OCT 2002 at 11:18pm |
GrammarTrollIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 62
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Good question. You know why I think this is a tricky question to answer these days, Harriet?
Used to there were adventures, action/adventures, and action games. You could really tell the three apart.
But since adventure qualities have infected the action genre so much, more and more action games these days are practically action/adventures.
Take NOLF1 and 2, American McGee's Alice, and Clive Barker's Undying. You could argue that these games are action games, but darn if they don't have lots of plot and character interaction.
I don't play them, but I imagine the Unreal Tournament type of games are still "pure action."
What I really don't like is when an adventure game has a half-hearted attempt to include an action element, like the end of GKIII. There was no action in the entire game, and then the finale suddenly became Tomb Raider.
I think if you're going to introduce action elements in the game, they should be well-integrated throughout.
The ultimate action/adventure hybrid of all time: Outcast.
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| 21 OCT 2002 at 11:32pm |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | In my opinion adventures should be adventures and action games should be action games. One or two action moments in a whole adventure does not harm anyone (I thought GK3 was a pure adventure).
But action adventure hybrids is one of the reason in my opinions why adventure games had lost some of their glory the past years. King's Quest 8, Simon 3d, Alone in the dark 4 and many more examples. And when I hear people calling Tomb Raider, or Indiana Jones and the infernal machine action/adventures I wonder where they find the adventure elements in them.
Though as we have seen adventures come back to the right track, because people like Jane Jensen, Ragnar Tornquist and Benoit Sokal showed to the rest that adventures should be adventures and should be made for adventure gamers.
If the industry should try to tempt more to the adventure genre this attempt should definitely be focused on people who enjoy good story telling (like people who like to read good books, or watch interesting movies) and not action gamers, cause they are not going to be interested in well developed story-telling.
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 21 OCT 2002 at 11:40pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4940
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | I'm a fairly active 3d-action gamer (Medal of Honor, Battlefield 1942) as well as pure Adventure game aficiando and I agree with dimi*3.
Usually the action part of Adventure games that have it is pretty lame so why bother? I'd rather enmesh myself in a good story, see neat places and solve problems at my own pace. Interestingly, I think System Shock was the first true action/adventure game and I remember the action part turning me off!
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 12:50am |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | I'm pretty much open to either any of them. I think the turning point for me was Tomb Raider. Was it action - yeah. Was it adventure, sure... Hey, a hybrid!
Alice and Undying are both good examples Hybrids - While TLJ and Syberia are more Pure Adventure.
I can't say I have a favorite one way or another. Which makes me an easy taget for the developers... Darn...
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 1:02am |
HelenGuild Master
Posts : 3436
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | I really enjoy both, it just depends on my mood.
I think a great example of Action Adventure would be
what they call Horror/Survival games, like Resident Evil,
you use weapons but also have puzzles to solve. So I guess they are more like Action/Adventure/Horror/Survival games.
I also enjoyed System Shock 2 ( actually still playing )
But I do Like pure Adventure too. So I really cant make a choice I like them equally.
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 1:03am |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | "I think the turning point for me was Tomb Raider. Was it action - yeah. Was it adventure, sure... "
posted by InlandAZ
about the last part...no comments...
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 1:06am |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Why, do you think they'll complain? LOL
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 1:38am |
GayleSchattenjger
Posts : 2544
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I play Action, Action/Adventure and Adventure.
I think Action/Adventure are my favorites, the best of two worlds.
Love Adventure games and think that a lot of people have the impression that Action/Adventures have no plots or interaction. Not true.
Alice, Undying, Soulbringer, Morrowind, Unreal and many others.
Which brings up the question, is Myst a puzzle game or an Adventure game? or hybrid?
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 2:24am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Harriet (21 OCT 2002 11:10pm)
Pure adventure?
Action/adventure hybrids?
What is your opinion and why?
Harriet@JA
"Action" or "timed" sequences added to an adventure game are often a pain in the butt. Like the mummy sequence in GK1: so many adventure gamers get stuck there having to repeat the &@#% thing until they either get it right - or give up. The timed action sequence near the end of Watchmaker is another example of a stupid annoying action bit thrown into an adventure game. Getting past it took me over an hour of repetitions, and the saved game I made rescued at least two other gamers who were not able to get past that part at all.
Action/adventures often have a god mode that you can use to cheat and not have to repeat things. Or you can recharge your ammo with a cheat if you're a lousy shot and waste most of it on the scenery. But usually there is some sort of a cheat that can help you get past a sticky area in an action/adventure.
This is not usually the case with a timed or action puzzle in an adventure game. If you're stuck, you're stuck. And no walkthrough will get you through because the puzzle is action-oriented and knowing what to do won't help if you're just not fast or not steady enough.
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 4:33am |
STooGE4444, EastCoastDoom...Schattenjger
Posts : 2099
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I think we all know that Pure Adventure is the best....
But I think the best Action/Adventure would have to be Outcast. It was such a big game. Yea....
~rbeeler SVT &&Name's STooGE$$$$ Valpurgius TNT; it's not PLURAL&&[img]http://www.riseaboverecords.com/sleep/image/sleepfront.gif[/img]&&151.Generally speaking Sludge Doomsters are Angry, Gothic doomsters are sad, funeral doomsters are barely breathing, death doomsters are dirty, drunk and dribbling, Stoner Doomsters don't care, drone doomsters are out of it and traditional Doomsters are permanently pissed off, mainly with other doomsters
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 4:41am |
gatorlawSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 377
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | My favorite are pure adventure. I play and enjoy action/adventure hybrids like Outcast or even FPS with a strong story and characters like NOLF - but I would abandon them in a heart beat for any game remotely like Syberia, TLJ, Black Dahlia, Curse of MI or any Tex or GK game.....
So I would say I play them and enjoy them - they just aren't my first choice. More like what I play when I am stuck in another game or in between good adventure games.
Laura
http://www.culpainnata.com&&&&Perfect world, or perfect nightmare?
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 7:08am |
bleepnikPrivate Detective
Posts : 544
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | I think I might like Action/Adventures....
.... if I could just keep from dying in the first 5 seconds. :'(
.gita, resident newbie adventurer
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 10:10am |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Well if you think that Tomb Raider is an adventure then I think NBA live 2003 is going to be an adventure and an RPG also. Because there are a lot of characters that you can interact with (like pass them the ball) and you also have each player's stats, thus an RPG.
I'm sorry but if you think that Tomb Raider is also an adventure then I think you should play some more adventure games and find out what they distinguish them from the rest kinds of games.
First of all speaking with 1-2 characters in a whole game and having 1 sequence between each level or using a key to open a locked door does not make a game an adventure. Tomb raider was as much an adventure as GK3 was an action game.
Having 1,2 adventure elements in a whole game does not make a game an adventure. And having 1,2 action elements in an adventure game does not make a game action.
I think the distinction is important. And talking about GK3 there have been some comments here about the 'action' scenes in the end. First of all it was not only in no 3. Also in no 2 and in no 1 there was some more 'action' if you can call it like that, towards the end.
For me it was absolutely fine cause it is a nice way to climax towards the end. And they were handled in an 'adventure' way and not as a tomb raider game as someone said before. You still had to use inventory items to solve action puzzles and you still used your mouse.
You can't expect all the adventure games to be non violent ones, violence or action scenes are vital for many stories. As long as they are handled in an adventure way and as long as they fit in the story well, and as long as they are not too often to interrupt story telling, then they are not a drawback, but an asset instead to give more excitement to the story.
And about timed sequences I think I prefer if in emergency situtation there is some timing as long as it is not too short to let you think. For example in the beginning of Broken Sword 2 when you are tied and there is a spider in front of you you can sit how long time you want and the spider is not going to touch you, which is not realistic at all. And in Longest Journey when April runs and runs and runs away from the gribbler and the monster of the vanguard near the end even if you just sit and don't do nothing, is also a little bit non realistic.
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 1:08pm |
JonasKyratzesSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 280
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I dislike purism, because it keeps art, including games, from being all it can be.
Each game is unique, and should be treated as such. Some games need arcade action, some don't. Some need character interaction, some don't, etc etc etc.
Designers should not be limited, because otherwise games will not evolve.
[i]
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 1:11pm |
JonasKyratzesSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 280
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Actually, I think the whole obsession with categories and genres is really bad, especially when it comes from designers, but also from players. To quote a now-gone game designer called Landfish, "No game should be a carbon copy of another for the sake of adhereing to a genre. Each game must be approached as its own entity, absorbing from past works only what is relevant, and discarding what is useless."
That man was an inspiration, back in the day (a couple of years ago, actually).
[i]
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 1:35pm |
jamarchandSchattenjger
Posts : 1665
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | I prefer pure adventure games...
Yah... I hate action sequences such shooting and fighting....although I like timed-sequences, because they are tenses.
I'm a game-explorer fan. To me, explore the grafic ambients is the best part of an adventure game.
Adventure game to me is EXPLORATION-AND-STRATEGY-TO SOLVE PROBLEMS.
 &&&&[move]Actually playing SHIVERS and Rhem 2[/move]&&
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 12:25am |
josieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 86
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I like
Adventure
Action/Adventure
Action
Josie
JOSIE
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 12:38am |
NellieSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 359
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I like them all, too. But one of my pet peeves is that Tomb Raider is happily described as an action-adventure game (and even just as 'adventure' in some quarters), but nobody ever seems to point out that the action elements are huge and the adventure elements pathetically small. Lever-flipping? Key finding? Come on...
Oh, I suppose I should point out that I don't believe the adventure genre can make an exclusive claim on storylines in games, so I don't believe an action game with a storyline is an action-adventure.
How did I start to rant, here? I like action games.
[b]£1bn -[/b] Amount British government has pledged to paying off debt of poorest nations over next 10 years.&&&&[b]£5bn -[/b] Amount British government has already spent on Iraq campaign.
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 12:45am |
BelindaSchattenjger
Posts : 2093
Joined: 21 OCT 2002
Status : Online | In my opinion I thing the true Adventure games are the point & click games, which I love playing. But when you have to start using the keyboard to get your guy/woman running around......thats Action games, which I don't really care for. I wish they would bring back more of the point & click Adventure games back, I've played alot of them in the past, and some of them were pure enjoyment. I wish they would come out with another Phantasmagoria......... :-(
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 12:56am |
bleepnikPrivate Detective
Posts : 544
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | A game's control has nothing to do with its genre. Case in point: Grim Fandango. I think you would be hard-pressed to find a single individual who wouldn't categorize it as a pure adventure. Keyboard control most certainly does not add action elements to a game.
.gita
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 9:00am |
| Deleted User | i play all three. adventure and action/adventure. but i dont like the games thats too much action(shooting and fighting)
i dont like violence that much. But if your talking about zanzarah. I can take it . I borrowed my freinds Project eden, and i still havent started playing it yet. Maybe because of all the guns that u have to use.
i'd like it if the story line attracts me .
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 9:09am |
dimidimidimiSchattenjger
Posts : 1784
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Belinda48 (23 OCT 2002 12:45am)
In my opinion I thing the true Adventure games are the point & click games, which I love playing. But when you have to start using the keyboard to get your guy/woman running around......thats Action games, which I don't really care for. I wish they would bring back more of the point & click Adventure games back, I've played alot of them in the past, and some of them were pure enjoyment. I wish they would come out with another Phantasmagoria......... :-(
Could not agree more....and a another Gabriel Knight in FMV pleaseeee
PDF adventure magazine - The Inventory&&http://www.justadventure.com/TheInventory/TheInventory.shtm&&&&What would you give to know the truth?&&http://www.brokensaints.com
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 11:08am |
emmaPrivate Detective
Posts : 525
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Since this thread somewhat echoes a poll over at the adventure gamers forum I've posted, I would love to get your vote, if you're interested in participating! You have to be registered to be able to vote though.
Thanks!
[URL=http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=emma]My DVDs[/URL] | [URL=http://www.adventuregamers.com/]AdventureGamers[/URL] | I haven't lost my mind, I've got a backup on a disc somewhere.
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 12:03pm |
MissBSchattenjger
Posts : 2217
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I love pure adventure games....I have enough stress at work. A timed sequence is okay on occasion, but that's as much action as I want. Anytime I play a game with some action elements in it, I usually get my daughter to do them for me, then continue to explore at my own pace.
My name is Bethany and I'm the daughter of Gamergal/Michelle.
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