| 21 OCT 2002 at 11:55pm |
josieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 86
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Technical Support
Customer Relations
Patches
Some Company's no matter what tho just dont want to help you.
Josie
JOSIE
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 12:55am |
GayleSchattenjger
Posts : 2544
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Hi,
Well, I have been lucky somewhat but the few times I had to get help from Technical Support, it was either no reply or it didn't relate to my problem in the first place.
My biggest pain lately has been Syberia. I sent three emails about two months ago and after the 3rd one was told to keep looking at the official site for the patch.
I am still waiting and when you have over 100 people at that site having problems with no response and no patch it starts getting annoying, so took the game off.
A friend of mine with XP is having a problem with Law and Order, has emailed tech support a couple of times and no response.
I am not sure that the companies release some of these games before truly finished or we sometimes get a little better of a game than a beta.
Sorry if I sound crabby, but I buy a lot of games and it is very hard to know your computer is twice or more than the requirements asked for and still have problems with a game and no support for problems.
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 1:06am |
The Terror of the Wolf part 3Schattenjger
Posts : 2391
Joined: 11 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Personally, I don't believe that a game should be released until it's reached the point where patches aren't necessary. I have awful memories of Ultima 9.
As for support.. Well, they need to be polite. Really, I want to be able to have confidence in their abilities.
[url=http://www.justadventure.com/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1136331866/0#0]GAMES FOR TRADE!![/url]
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 1:19am |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Ummm - Can I answer all of the above? Games should be free of bugs when released but, hardware and software changes do sometimes require patches (and or technical support).
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 1:49am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | To be honest, I gave up on tech support in general (not just games) when I discovered that in 95% cases I unfortunately know a lot more about the problems than the tech support people. Usually if I can't help myself, the tech support won't be able to either (and no, I'm not bragging, I wish it weren't so).
As for bugs in games... game companies are certainly 100% responsible for bugs in game logic, yet we know that they occasionally screw up and release a game that can't be even finished. But there is no excuse for that.
When it comes to hardware/software compatibility however... speaking as a software developer, I can tell you that there is simply no way the developers can assure 100% compatibility. Even if the companies spent tons of cash on testing on thousands of configurations, they still won't catch everything. What's worse, the operating environment can and does change (new CPUs, new OS versions etc.). The developers can hope that everything will work out but they can't guarantee it. Hence DOS games don't work on Win9x, Win9x games don't work on XP and so on.
It all boils down to this: you and I bought the cheapest and, shall we say, least well engineered platform there is, the PC. The cost we have to pay for that is the occasional incompatibility. This is where consoles have a very definite edge (but of course they have shortcomings too). It isn't going to change and it won't get better. It's a vicious circle - cheap low quality hardware -> more users -> more software -> more users -> more low quality hardware and so on ad infinitum.
Then there's of course the "time to market" thing where companies tend to put out unfinished products. Again it's a vicious circle - the companies who do it gain (sadly) a competitive edge over those who don't so the latter will start doing it too. And then there's no way back. Cheap and crappy always wins - and if you're lucky, it'll maybe get a little better in the long term.
I forgot my sig.
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 7:52am |
bleepnikPrivate Detective
Posts : 544
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | If a company were to wait until no patches are required to release a game, it would never be released. I agree with what has already been stated, that there are simply too many different configurations out there to guarantee compatibility across the board. Even web site designers have encountered this problem -- do you design for the lowest common denominator, running the risk of creating a borin, aesthetically unappealing site? Do you create various versions to try and please everyone? Do you just do what you want and declare minimum system requirements up front, thereby potentially alienating a percentage of your audience? I would imagine game companies go through something similar when designing a game.
I find web sites and usenet the ultimate treasure trove for tech support; it is therefore not imperative that a developer/publisher offer this to me. However, a patch is something only they can provide, and that they do not ignore bug reports and address them with patches in a timely fashion is of the utmost importance. I was most impressed that Trilobyte released an executable to enable The 7th Guest and The 11th Hour to run in Windows. It was a beta, but they weren't planning on developing it further, so they let us have it instead of hoarding it away somewhere. That was way cool.
Another thing I've been mulling over is that computer games have a long life. Regardless of genre, someone, somewhere, will get started "late in the game" and will want to collect old games. Evidently, game companies don't stay in business forever (the audacity!), so getting support for old games is at times an impossible feat. While sites like gamecopyworld, megagames, and patches-scrolls exist, I really wish there were a more official, less clandestine (those sites are too often associated with piracy, I think) repository for patches and updates. That way companies going under could make arrangements to continue to provide said files indefinitely.
Oh, also, since they're no longer in business, I wish said companies would let go of their properties, so other developers could release patches 'n' stuff. I wish that those who *are* still in business *cough* LucasArts *cough* would update their games to work on modern systems without hours of fiddling with DOS settings, creating dual-boot configurations, building separate DOS boxes to avoid the hassle altogether, emulating a DOS environment with VirtualPC or something, tearing out ridiculous amounts of one's hair, etc.
32-bit Sam 'n' Max? That's what I'm talking about.
And oh yeah! If they're not gonna do it, I really wish they'd stop taking legal action against those who do! Grrrrr....
OK I'm done. Really. For now.
.gita
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 4:03pm |
bistroSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 240
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | I don't use technical support all that much---too many past nightmares dealing with their summer temp help who don't even know how to spell "g-a-m-e"....
Patches--as soon as the bugs are discovered (and they will), they better have the patches. Gets very disappointing to read in forums for over 3 months about the same bug, but there's no patch on the publisher's site.
That's why I generally wait for a month or so after the release---then I read user reviews and great forums like this one before buying.
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 5:27pm |
| Deleted User | Hi Bistro, I agree with you about not buying games that are brand new to the market. I only do it when my enthusiasm gets ahead of my brain.
Almost every game bug I have ever experienced occurred in the earliest stages of release - before the developer had the opportunity to release a patch.
As far as waiting months for a patch or other help - that is outrageous. If companies want us to continue to purchase their products they need to be more attentive to their customers.
Years ago I had a major problem with a Sierra game (GK2). I tried every which way but up to get Sierra to help me. And they sent me a patch (by mail in the days before email accessability) that did less than nothing to solve my issue. I had experienced MAJOR problems throughout the entire game but had been able to work around them. I was very near the end and that was it. I had one final and fatal freeze. No matter what I did it I was left with the same situation. I finally threw the game in the trash.
I wrote and called Sierra numerous times with no result. I am sorry to say that this left a bad taste in my mouth about the company. I understand the presence of some bugs in a new game but this game had more bugs than I had ever seen before or since. I tend to remember lots of games for different reasons but I remember this one because it had a great story, great characters and great potential with a terminal ending.
I don't mean to be harsh about Sierra but this one really burned me. I was more than annoyed.
Harriet@JA
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 5:33pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By justG (22 OCT 2002 7:51am)
Another thing I've been mulling over is that computer games have a long life.
You hit the nail on the head justG. And this applies perhaps most to adventures, though it does happen to all games that are not technology driven (RPGs, strategies as opposed to FPSs). Adventures and RPGs are IMO most badly hit for one reason: they are not easily replaceable. Old shooter and strategy games usually have modern lookalikes. But there is no modern equivalent of, say, Day of the Tentacle or Ultima Underworld or Ultima VII. Those games are unique.
This of course creates a huge problem. The average supported lifespan of a Microsoft OS is now 3-4 years but the games are easily 10-15 years old! And they're still worth playing.
While OS makers can try to ensure that their new offerings are compatible with old software, their options are limited. Often the only feasible solution is modifying the software itself (be it a game or anything else). And of course there is another problem because the software (game) vendor isn't interested in making fixes. Either they don't consider it important enough, perhaps they think that old games are competing with their latest offerings, maybe the programmers left and no one at the company understands the source code or possibly the company is simply no longer in business. So there is no supply despite existing demand.
Is there any solution? Maybe. It is open source. There are good examples of this at work, the best known probably being id Software. People still can play DOOM (remember, originally released in 1993) without problems on modern machines and alternate OSes. Why? Because the source code is available (and so is source code for Quake and Quake II). Interested programmer-gamers can make sure that it at least keeps working (and make improvements if they wish).
Open sourcing game software is less than a problem than it may sound. Compared to most other software, games are unique in that it is not the game engine (program) itself that makes a good game, it is the artwork. By giving up control over source code, the maker does not give up the revenue stream because players still need to buy the data files.
I would see two possible strategies that companies could take:
1) Conservative. Do everything as usual but release the source when the game is "end of lifed". This way the company obviously isn't losing anything. By the time they release the source, it is obsolete. They could gain new sales to people who can play with fixed game engine (updated by 3rd parties) but couldn't play with the original for whatever reason.
2) Aggressive. Release the source together with the game. If properly executed, this strategy might save support costs because some gamers could fix their problems easier/faster than the original developers (particularly unusual compatibility problems). 3rd parties could also port games to alternate operating environments. There is a potential loss if competitors take advantage of the source and potential gain if the target audience is widened.
The source license need not be an Open Source license at all. It need not allow any use other than fixing and improving one particular game. And, as I mentioned earlier, even a less restrictive license might be OK since it's the data that makes the game, not the program code.
I'm not saying this would be easy. But the biggest problem would be changing the mindset and attitude, not technical issues. I have first hand experience with open sourcing a formerly commercial C/C++ compiler. That is an order of a magnitude larger project than any game and it can be done. In some cases it might even happen that the original developers would be interested in maintaining the game.
Wow, that was a long post. Food for thought... tell me if I'm way off base.
I forgot my sig.
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 5:42pm |
bistroSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 240
Joined: 15 OCT 2002
Status : Online | WOW, MichalN! I was going to say "Adventure games are really neat!"....sure glad I didn't. That would have been embarrassing....
I've got a long wish list of older games that I would like to see made compatible with XP---I think XP's "compatibility mode" is a joke...
Let's get T-shirts made that say "Release the Code!!".
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 10:32pm |
bleepnikPrivate Detective
Posts : 544
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | MichalN, very well said.
.gita
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| 22 OCT 2002 at 11:28pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By justG (22 OCT 2002 10:32pm)
MichalN, very well said.
Thanks. Now we just need someone to listen
I forgot my sig.
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| 23 OCT 2002 at 12:07am |
josieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 86
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Status : Online | The Company I had trouble with wa Ubisoft, it was Pool of Radiance, I got to a point that I would crash in the same spot every time no matter what I did, I tried everything. So I got in touch with the Tech Support there and they told me to do everything I had already done, Drivers, reinstall and ect I had done exactly all of it. They wanted my DXdiag and after I sent that in to them I never heard back from them this was all on their board thing and it was listed as Solved but I was never informed of what it was Soved as I e-mailed them asking about that and never heard a thing. So I am starting the game over from scratch to see if that will make a difference and if I will crash at the same point I am holding my Breath.
Josie
JOSIE
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