| 27 APR 2006 at 4:37am |
krkdnosePrivate Detective
Posts : 707
Joined: 9 JUN 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By KingRyan (27 APR 2006 2:19am)
Is anyone here well-educated in astronomy, particularly things to do with the sun?
I have a sun-related "project" and I could really use some assistance. PM me if you're a kind soul ...
What kind of project is it?
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| 27 APR 2006 at 5:46am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | What I know about the sun can be written on a postage stamp.
It's yellow, big and hot. It's in the sky. You mustn't look at it or you'll burn your retina and damage your eyesight. It causes skin cancer. We need it to make vitamin D. It's got enough fuel to last for another 4 billion years. Now that my youngest son can see that's a big number he's less worried about it and no longer asks me what will happen when the sun dies. :
It will expand to swallow the first 3 planets when it is dying. Mars might actually be nice and warm then.
Hope someone more knowledgeable comes along or you are sunk!
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| 27 APR 2006 at 7:25am |
sg7Sorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 213
Joined: 8 JUN 2004
Location: UK
Status : Offline | You could look at this site http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/ about SOHO the classroom link gives a good introduction to the suns workings , and you can see the current sun weather report
Playing ME3-Citadel ,TOMB raider ,Skyrim Dragonborn
Waiting fot journey down episode 2 ,Dragon AGE 3
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| 27 APR 2006 at 8:10am |
MorgausePrivate Detective
Posts : 687
Joined: 2 SEP 2004
Status : Online | You'll have a nice day tomorrow, and will make friends with someone you did not expect. If you were born between the 24 and the 28 of the month, you will also win a lot of money. If you were born in the first six days of the month, be warned you may have an accident while sewing. Seize any and all opportunities you will get during the next few days, as they are much more likely to succeed. Astrology is sure a good deal funner than astronomy.
You may indeed wish to give a bit more detail. I would have a bit of a problem writing a thesis on astronomy, but something a little easier might work.
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| 27 APR 2006 at 10:28am |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Caroline (27 APR 2006 5:45am)
What I know about the sun can be written on a postage stamp. (...) It causes skin cancer.
Actually Caroline, although most people don't know it this is a subject scientists are still debating on, a theory if you will, rather than a hard fact. The main argument of those who oppose to the theory is that, if it was true, populations directly below big ozon gaps (such as the residents of Southern Chile) would show an considerable increase in skin cancer compared to other countries... and they don't. The sad truth is, we still don't know what is the main cause of skin cancer.
And Alneyan, Ryan said astronomy, not astrology.
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| 27 APR 2006 at 11:15am |
KingRyanSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 281
Joined: 25 JAN 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Yog (27 APR 2006 9:39am)
Ryan, try www.google.com or pay more attention in class. If you were my son I would kick your ass. You will be sorry, believe me. [smiley=whistle.gif]
[smiley=rofl.gif]
The project involves discussing changes in the sun through a 6-month period ... as well as determining where it's rays are given a certain latitude.
[size=14][b]Currently Playing:[/b]&&Sherlock Holmes: Nemesis[/size]
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| 27 APR 2006 at 12:35pm |
MorgausePrivate Detective
Posts : 687
Joined: 2 SEP 2004
Status : Online | Hey, that's starting to look like math. Math! At that rate we'll end up doing calculus. *Shivers*
I've always felt astrology should give up its speech-related claim over the logos part, leaving the studious astronomy free to take over and become the real astrology. The current astrology can always join up with the Armada of -mancy names: astromancy sounds pretty good. There it will meet the casual oneiromancy, the peculiar dendromancy, and the alien siderodromomancy (an often-underestimated discipline I have pioneered).
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| 27 APR 2006 at 1:58pm |
krkdnosePrivate Detective
Posts : 707
Joined: 9 JUN 2004
Status : Online | Interesting project.
My group (in graduate school) designed a space-based solar x-ray telescope to take full-disc images of the sun to aid in the prediction of space weather. It's going to be launched fairly soon.
By changes in the sun, I suspect you mean sunspot activity, mass coronal ejections, etc. Solar activity has an eleven year cycle, so plotting solar activity over a number of years will show a definite pattern as a whole. But over a six month period, it will most likely look fairly random.
Not sure what you mean by "where it's (sic) rays are given a certain latitude". First of all, there's really no such thing as rays. Rays are an imaginary construct used in geometrical optics. The sun's electro-magnetic radiation propagates in all directions, so that begs a second question: given a certain latitude where? On the earth? What's the geometry of the situation? What do you really mean?
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| 27 APR 2006 at 3:23pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Alkis
Australia leads the world in skin cancer cases with Queensland leading the nation.
The sun in Austalia is very harsh, more so than you experience because the biggest hole in the ozone layer is over the South Pole. However, it overlaps the Australian continent by quite a bit. The sunshine in Tasmania, being more southerly, and thus directly under the hole, burns the skin more easily, even on cloudy days. It isn't the sunshine - it's the UV rays.
There's no debate about it down here. Young teenagers who run around bare chested get moles and present with aggressive cases. Old men have the melanomas on their ears and noses burnt off. Skin cancer is running in epidemic proportions down here. 1700 people die in Australia every year as a result of skin cancer.
When Australia has summer the planet is actually closer to the sun than when the northern hemisphere has summer, so we get it harsher and hotter.
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| 27 APR 2006 at 3:30pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | ..which explains why no one wants to vacation down there...
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| 27 APR 2006 at 7:40pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4940
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By krkdnose (27 APR 2006 1:58pm)
First of all, there's really no such thing as rays. Rays are an imaginary construct used in geometrical optics.
What kind of heresy is that. No such things as rays? Look, on the beaches of Southern California, I've seen rays, I've caught rays, I've felt rays. First there was no Santa Claus, no Easter Bunny and then no Tooth Fairy and you want to take away the last vestige of my belief system? :
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 27 APR 2006 at 7:57pm |
KingRyanSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 281
Joined: 25 JAN 2004
Status : Online | @SirDave:
@krkdnose:
-measuring angle of separation of sun's positions
-discussing changes in sun's position & appearance
-at what direct latitude sun's direct rays are shining on date X
-what dates sun's direct rays shining on latitude X
this is 9th gr earth science, btw
[size=14][b]Currently Playing:[/b]&&Sherlock Holmes: Nemesis[/size]
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| 27 APR 2006 at 8:19pm |
krkdnosePrivate Detective
Posts : 707
Joined: 9 JUN 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By KingRyan (27 APR 2006 7:57pm)
@SirDave:
@krkdnose:
-measuring angle of separation of sun's positions
-discussing changes in sun's position & appearance
-at what direct latitude sun's direct rays are shining on date X
-what dates sun's direct rays shining on latitude X
this is 9th gr earth science, btw
Ok, not quite as interesting as coronal mass ejections.
Just do a Google search like Yog suggested. Putting in "sun", "rays", and "latitude" should find you what you're looking for.
And despite what SirDave says ( ), there is no such thing as rays. No physical thing, anyway. They're just a mathematical construct. I wonder if 9th grade Earth Science books mention this fact.
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| 27 APR 2006 at 8:28pm |
ShadowWalkerJourneyman
Posts : 997
Joined: 27 JUL 2005
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SirDave (27 APR 2006 7:39pm)
What kind of heresy is that. No such things as rays? Look, on the beaches of Southern California, I've seen rays, I've caught rays, I've felt rays. First there was no Santa Claus, no Easter Bunny and then no Tooth Fairy and you want to take away the last vestige of my belief system? :
Hey we still have the martian thought control waves okay. I wear a hat all the time lined with aluminum foil, that way I will not succumb to their thought control and give up my love of all things chocolate! OK>
:
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| 27 APR 2006 at 8:48pm |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Caroline (27 APR 2006 3:23pm)
Alkis
Australia leads the world in skin cancer cases with Queensland leading the nation.
The sun in Austalia is very harsh, more so than you experience because the biggest hole in the ozone layer is over the South Pole. However, it overlaps the Australian continent by quite a bit. The sunshine in Tasmania, being more southerly, and thus directly under the hole, burns the skin more easily, even on cloudy days. It isn't the sunshine - it's the UV rays.
There's no debate about it down here. Young teenagers who run around bare chested get moles and present with aggressive cases. Old men have the melanomas on their ears and noses burnt off. Skin cancer is running in epidemic proportions down here. 1700 people die in Australia every year as a result of skin cancer.
When Australia has summer the planet is actually closer to the sun than when the northern hemisphere has summer, so we get it harsher and hotter.
This is really not my area of expertise, I'm not even a doctor and therefore I can't debate your arguments. Basically you are listing some very good *signs* that the UV rays are causing skin cancer; but science needs more than signs before it can declare something as common knowledge, especially when there are signs that question the validity of a theory. Of course, I'm not saying that the sun does NOT cause skin cancer, I'm only saying the verdict is not out yet.
I've thought several times about starting a topic on "common scientific knowledge" that is anything but. The "sun causes skin cancer" is among the favorite ones among the lot, perhaps not as popular as "cell phones are bad for your health" but certainly more popular than "you shouldn't mix aspirin with coca-cola". For instance, how many of you know that the global warming theory that so much excites the environmental organizations (not to mention the know-it-all journalists who are always eager to cry WOLF) was proven as rubbish 5 years ago, and is not even discussed in serious environmental conferences and publications?
Anyway, I won't start that topic because I don't think people would react well, it's hard to convince someone that something that is considered as common knowledge lacks the slightest thread of scientific basis.
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| 27 APR 2006 at 9:27pm |
krkdnosePrivate Detective
Posts : 707
Joined: 9 JUN 2004
Status : Online | I remember reading somewhere that the reason Austrailians have the highest incidence of skin cancer in the world isn't because of the hole in the ozone layer, but because when people migrated from Europe to Australia, their bodies weren't able to produce enough melanin to compensate for the sunnier climate, and evolution hasn't yet caught up.
It would be interesting to see a study on the rate of skin cancer among whites -vs- the rate of skin cancer among the aboriginal people in Australia.
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| 27 APR 2006 at 9:31pm |
krkdnosePrivate Detective
Posts : 707
Joined: 9 JUN 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By alkis21 (27 APR 2006 8:48pm)
Of course, I'm not saying that the sun does NOT cause skin cancer, I'm only saying the verdict is not out yet.
I'd be interested to see some examples of people (besides yourself, of course), who think the verdict is out on this.
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| 27 APR 2006 at 9:43pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4940
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Australia has the highest incidence of skin cancer in the world. As many as 1 in 2 Australian adults will have skin cancer in their lifetime (applies to those born in Australia, but those that live there many years show related increasing incidence).
The above statistics do not apply to Australian residents whose favorite adventure game is Timelapse.
Australian aboriginals show a very low rate of melanoma, but unfortunately have a life expectancy of almost 20 years less than other Australians so freedom from skin cancer is of limited benefit.
The jury is no longer out on the relationship of over-exposure to the sun, light complexion and skin cancer.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 28 APR 2006 at 12:20am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Alkis,
Live a year in our country and see how far you get disbelieving in the sun = skin cancer equation. As SirDave points out, it's mainly a white man's issue.
Our schools indoctrinate our children about wearing hats and suncream. Every school in Australia has a hat as part of the compulsory uniform. Our media reminds adults constantly to be sun-wise. No one disbelieves this because people my generation (the 40s -50s) ran around half naked as kids, brown as a berry all summer long, no hats, no sun screen. They are the victims of huge numbers of melanomas. Our children have special swim suits that block UV rays and cover their torso from elbow to knee. I know Europeans don't have these because friends travelling in Italy were most annoyed to find their sons' sun suits were regarded as 't-shirts' and had to be removed. Aussies generally avoid sunbathing between 11am and 3pm.
You are free to dismiss such beliefs if you like but our scientists are pretty firm on the connection. Also I'd like you to consider the mountaineers who must wear sunscreen at high altitudes where the ozone protection is thinner. There really IS a connection.
And yes, the evidence is accumulating about cell phones and brains.
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| 28 APR 2006 at 3:40am |
KingRyanSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 281
Joined: 25 JAN 2004
Status : Online | I wrote an essay on global warming ... but being a pale, freckled Irish boy I know all about sunburn : And I've done my research on skin cancer as well.
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| 28 APR 2006 at 4:00am |
BazzaLBPrivate Detective
Posts : 512
Joined: 27 AUG 2005
Location: AU
Status : Offline | nah.. Sand and sea water and ice cream in the correct ratios causes skin cancer!
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| 28 APR 2006 at 10:26am |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Dear Caroline, please don't speak as if I told you I don't believe that sun causes skin cancer. As a non-expert, it is not for me to be disbelieving about anything. And it's not like I live in Norway; every summer in Greece, we get plenty of warnings about the disastrous effects of the UV rays. I'm not saying that you should go to your children and tell them to stop using sunblock because I said so. I'm only pointing out that there are different opinions on the matter.
The organization I'm working for is holding one of the biggest environmental conferences in Europe this month. I will be representing the organization, and during coffee breaks I will try to ask around about the relationship between skin cancer and UV rays (however, I'm more interested to hear their opinion on the global warming fairy tale).
And yes, the evidence is accumulating about cell phones and brains.
I'm not sure what you mean by that, but as this is my area, I can tell you for a fact that after 20 years of research there are NO indications whatsoever that cell phones cause any kind of harm to your brain or any other organ. I'm not talking about evidence, I'm talking about ZERO indications. And yet I still hear every week on the news "experts" (such as kindergarden teachers) claim that "it's safer if you use a handsfree".
If you want a connection between technology and diseases, try high voltage transfer lines and leuchemia. That's what people should be worrying about, and that's what media should be yelling all day long: remove HVTL from populated areas. But they don't, because it's electricity, right? We're all used to electricity, there's no way magnetic fields can be harmful, nobody believes that.
I recommend that everyone reads "State of Fear" by Michael Crichton, it will literally change the way you're thinking about "scientific facts" forever.
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| 2 MAY 2006 at 7:58pm |
SusanGuild Master
Posts : 5485
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Caroline (28 APR 2006 12:19am)
Our children have special swim suits that block UV rays and cover their torso from elbow to knee. I know Europeans don't have these because friends travelling in Italy were most annoyed to find their sons' sun suits were regarded as 't-shirts' and had to be removed.
If I may ask, does that go for the girls, too? I'm getting a vision of a Victorian-era swimsuit.
I miss my Bubba: 1986 - 2006.
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| 4 MAY 2006 at 12:15am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Susan
These are just happy snaps of my menfolk wearing their sun shirts. You can buy zip-up one-piece suits for little kids. They are always dark colours with bright sleeves and for the girls, their suits and pants have bright frilly bits to make them 'girly'. They are made of lycra and offer 50+ sun protection. The6y are worn skin tight, come up the neck slightly, and do not restrict movement. You don't need to put sunscreen on underneath them, they don't make you any hotter than you would be. They're not expensive and they are very common. Teenagers however, like to show off their flesh..... :-/
[img]http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/5455/dsc008683zs.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img161.imageshack.us/img161/6426/dsc008711eo.jpg[/img]
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