| 22 APR 2006 at 4:07am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | I don't know how accurate that listing is. There are quite a few RPGs in the mix there (Diablo, DaggerFall, etc.)
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| 22 APR 2006 at 9:13am |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ivinia (21 APR 2006 11:52pm)
Does anyone have an actual count of how many AGs have been released year after year? I would venture to say there are more now than ever. Back then you didn't have the freeware or indie titles you have today. Some of which are quite good. If you are basing the the best time period solely on the number of titles that were produced, then 2001-2005 might just be it.
That is a very good point, actually. I think it's impossible to count all the adventure games released per year, if you want to include the amateur and independent titles. Mind you, there was a huge independent text adventure scene in the 80s, with people all over the world producing games and holding meetings and competitions.. but you're right, I don't think the indie scene 15 years ago produced 1/10th of the games it does today.
Fickfack, the link you gave has a good list but far from complete. Here are some games they left out:
Adventures of Maddog Williams
Alien Drug Lords From Space
Altered Destiny
Heart of China
Hook
I Was A Cannibal For The FBI
King's Quest V
Little Red Riding Hood
Martian Memorandum
Mixed-Up Mother Goose (Enhanced)
Rise Of The Dragon
Robin Hood: Conquests of the Longbow
Spellcasting 201: The Sorcerer's Appliance
TimeQuest
Wonderland
In any case, the purpose of this poll was to compare the quality of AGs over the years, not the quantity.
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| 22 APR 2006 at 10:35am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By alkis21 (22 APR 2006 9:13am)
Originally Posted By Ivinia (21 APR 2006 11:52pm)
Does anyone have an actual count of how many AGs have been released year after year? I would venture to say there are more now than ever. Back then you didn't have the freeware or indie titles you have today. Some of which are quite good. If you are basing the the best time period solely on the number of titles that were produced, then 2001-2005 might just be it.
That is a very good point, actually. I think it's impossible to count all the adventure games released per year, if you want to include the amateur and independent titles.
For obvious reasons, amateur adventures should have their own list. You can find many such lists on the Internet.
Fickfack, the link you gave has a good list but far from complete. Here are some games they left out:
[smiley=bullcrap.gif]
Altered Destiny (1990), Hook (1992), King's Quest V (1990), Martian Memorandum (1991), Mixed-Up Mother Goose (Enhanced) (1995), Rise Of The Dragon (1990), Conquests of the Longbow (1992), Time Quest (1999) and the maze game Wonderland (2002) They are there. All of them. Beats me how you managed to miss them.
The ones that are not in Pagoda:
Alien Drug Lords From Space... you must be one of very few people who know this game. It's more than just a little obscure, even in Google.
I Was A Cannibal For The FBI and Spellcasting 201 are text adventures. Pagoda doesn't list text adventures. Next time you're looking for a stick to hit a wellknown and much appreciated database you obviously know nothing about with, try reading the About bit first.
Little Red Riding Hood is an educational game for very small children.
Which leaves us with Adventures of Maddog Williams and Heart of China. I agree that they should be listed.
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| 22 APR 2006 at 1:02pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Perhaps the most exhaustive adventure listing is Adventure Archiv: http://adventure-archiv.com
It's in German sadly, and it doesn't work like a real database, but it sure covers some pretty rare games!
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| 22 APR 2006 at 1:45pm |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Betje, when I told you to stop following me around the forum replying rudely to every post I make, you acted surprised. And then, wow, Alkis makes a mistake, you HAVE to reply, you NEED to reply, I can picture you with bulged eyes and popping veins on your neck, so excited you get to stir things up again.
At first, I wondered when did I ever do anything to make you so mad. A simple search in JA though reveals that your replies to posts from almost ANY JAer are oozing with irony, sarcasm, bitterness, and venom. Is this your idea of a good time? Or are you simply incapable of being civilized?
In any case, you're a very sad person, a real forum troll if I ever saw one, and although my anger is what you are looking for you can only have my pity.
The years I mentioned refer to the Amiga versions of those games. So:
Altered Destiny (1990)
King's Quest V (1990)
Rise Of The Dragon (1990)
Granted, they were released one year earlier on PC, so you are right about those.
Hook (1992)
Mixed-Up Mother Goose (Enhanced) (1995)
Conquests of the Longbow (1992)
All were first released on Amiga in 1991. In fact, I BOUGHT Hook and CoL in 1991, so I'm 100% certain.
Time Quest (1999)
Wonderland (2002)
Those are different games than the adventures released in 1991.
You may now go back to searching for posts that may give you an opportunity to attack someone.
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| 22 APR 2006 at 1:45pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Well, I've been putting together a listing here and am up to over 1,200. This includes freeware and indies. I still have to throw the Web-based games in (Crimson Room, Stickman, etc.). I also want to get listings for platform specific games (Fatal Frame, etc.) . reamcatcher name changes are causing havoc... :
The freeware titles were mainly in 2003-2005 with 2005 having the largest number (over 100! ).
I eventually want to add some more fields to it like theme (horror, mystery, etc.) and view (1st person slide show, 3rd, 360, etc.), but right now I have to finish up some other things. :
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| 22 APR 2006 at 2:37pm |
| Deleted User | [Irrelevant blahblah snipped.]
The years I mentioned refer to the Amiga versions of those games. So:
Altered Destiny (1990)
King's Quest V (1990)
Rise Of The Dragon (1990)
Granted, they were released one year earlier on PC, so you are right about those.
Huh??
Don't turn this into something it isn't. My post was not about the year of release, it was about you claiming those games were left out of Pagoda. They were not. They ARE listed in Pagoda! Your criticism was totally unfounded. If you were discussing a *specific* year (1991? 1990?... just guessing) for a *specific* location (Europe?), you should have made that clear. Which you didn't. You said that Pagoda was far from complete. Your criticism of a good database that is used by many people, was very unfair.
Hook (1992)
Mixed-Up Mother Goose (Enhanced) (1995)
Conquests of the Longbow (1992)
All were first released on Amiga in 1991. In fact, I BOUGHT Hook and CoL in 1991, so I'm 100% certain.
Yeah. So...? I don't get it. Is this about Amiga games all of a sudden?
Time Quest (1999)
Wonderland (2002)
Those are different games than the adventures released in 1991.
If it's the Legend Tîme Quest, it's a text adventure.
If it's the Magnetic Scrolls Wonderland, it's a text adventure.
If it's the Virgin Mastertronic Wonderland, it's a text adventure.
For the third time (Fickfack told you, I told you): Pagoda doesn't list text adventures.
If it's a different TimeQuest or Wonderland, please be more specific.
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| 22 APR 2006 at 2:55pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Agustin (22 APR 2006 1:01pm)
Perhaps the most exhaustive adventure listing is Adventure Archiv: http://adventure-archiv.com
It's in German sadly, and it doesn't work like a real database, but it sure covers some pretty rare games!
It used to be in English too, can't find it anymore. Too bad, it's a very good site.
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| 22 APR 2006 at 3:03pm |
| Deleted User | I've just finished reading Alkis' PM to me. It goes without saying that I normally do not betray email/PM confidence, whatever the subject and no matter who sent it. But if you ever send me that kind of PM again, Alkis, I wil not hesitate to go public with it.
Consider yourself warned.
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| 22 APR 2006 at 4:47pm |
nytimesguyPrivate Detective
Posts : 684
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Well, part of it does not come down to taste and personal preference, it comes down to lack of breadth of knowledge and experience. If someone just started playing adventures a couple of years ago, chances are they have played many more games from the 2001-2005 range which is giving them a skewed view of things. Someone who played all the games in their own eras should have a better idea of how they compare. Additionally, it's tough to argue that 2001-2005 is the "best" era for adventures when the amount of games released per year now is a small fraction of that same figure from 10-15 years ago. The numbers just don't add up.
Well, there is another reason beyond lack of experience, which would be the technology and graphics. Certainly Myst IV is one of the best looking adventure games of all time, and Dreamfall's real-time 3D graphics are quite appealing. After all, I can't get as excited about games like Curse of Monkey Island or text games because I've grown used to a higher level of technology, and while most adventure games nowadays are still using 90s-era technology anyway (like all the Myst clones) there are an increasing number of real time 3D games and graphics are certainly slicker in even traditional point & clickers. It all depends what you want in a game.
But I still feel very confident that the late 90s was the best period; Longest Journey, Grim Fandango, Last Express, Zork Nemesis, Sanitarium, Obsidian etc. It was a truly amazing period in adventure game history.
Charles - Game Theorist
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| 22 APR 2006 at 4:51pm |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Betje (22 APR 2006 2:37pm)
Don't turn this into something it isn't. My post was not about the year of release, it was about you claiming those games were left out of Pagoda. They were not.
I'm not turning this into anything, and I wasn't criticising Pagoda. I was just replying to FickFack's comment that "Only 29 games were released in 1991". Pagoda's list of "adventure games released in 1991" was incomplete, partly because they disctributed some of the games to other years.
Is this about Amiga games all of a sudden?
No, it's about Adventure Games. The first year of release of a game is the first year the company released the game on *any* platform, in *any* continent. Back then, not all games were released on PC first. And I get it, Text Adventures are not listed in Pagoda, I missed that in Fickfack's post and I was imprecise regarding some dates. That still doesn't give you the right to raise your disgusting BS flag.
The fact is, I'm tired of your constant disrespect towards a great number of JAers, Betje, and judging from some very interesting private conversations I've had with some, so are several people. This is a place for people to voice their opinions on adventure games. This is NOT a place for you or anyone else to display your inferiority complexes. From now on, my replies to you will be of the exact tone your replies to me are, I'm not going to start any fights but I will gladly respond when provoked, and I suggest everyone does the same to you. [smiley=kiss.gif]
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| 22 APR 2006 at 5:12pm |
jalexSchattenjger
Posts : 2503
Joined: 5 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | I have a list of about 400 PC adventure games that I have or have played if that would help.
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| 22 APR 2006 at 5:20pm |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By nytimesguy (22 APR 2006 4:47pm)
...But I still feel very confident that the late 90s was the best period; Longest Journey, Grim Fandango, Last Express, Zork Nemesis, Sanitarium, Obsidian etc. It was a truly amazing period in adventure game history.
Ja, igen, richtig, oui, si, and...yes!
...one affirmative for each game you listed...
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 22 APR 2006 at 5:32pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Like nytimesguy and Mark, I adored many of the adventures games that came out between 1995 and 2000. But I still consider the previous five-year period more significant because most of the terrific series that extended beyond that timeframe started back then. The Myst, Monkey Island, Gabriel Knight, Tex Murphy (on the PC) and The Journeyman Project series all got their start during the 1990 - 1995 period. Both LucasArts and Sierra were in top form and many new precedents were set for a variety of advanced graphical AG styles.
Before then we had text adventures followed by the earliest graphical presentations. But the entire tech revolution had not yet fully developed let alone taken off and most people simply did not own home PCs with or without graphics cards and web connections. It was during the early to mid 1990's that Windows, AOL, etc. exploded on the scene and suddenly interactive entertainment was widely accessible to millions of people.
The first great 3D PC shooters, real-time online competition, modding and innovative games in many other genres also contributed to making that an especially exciting time in the history of gaming. So I rank it as a pivotal turning point in terms of technology, marketing, social awareness / access and creativity.
Cheers, Terry
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| 22 APR 2006 at 7:00pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Mark (22 APR 2006 5:20pm)
Originally Posted By nytimesguy (22 APR 2006 4:47pm)
...But I still feel very confident that the late 90s was the best period; Longest Journey, Grim Fandango, Last Express, Zork Nemesis, Sanitarium, Obsidian etc. It was a truly amazing period in adventure game history.
Ja, igen, richtig, oui, si, and...yes!
...one affirmative for each game you listed...
What language is igen?
(just curious)
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| 22 APR 2006 at 7:43pm |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | Hungarian. :-*
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 22 APR 2006 at 8:39pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Mark (22 APR 2006 7:43pm)
Hungarian. :-*
No wonder I didn't recognize it.
I'm totally unfamiliar with Hungarian.
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| 22 APR 2006 at 9:20pm |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Ivinia (21 APR 2006 11:52pm)
Are you saying the only people who can respond to the poll are those that started playing them in the 70's?
Of course not. This is a public internet poll. It's not binding or meaningful outside this board in anyway, so anybody can do whatever they want with it. I'm just pointing out that anyone who voted for the 2001-2005 time period likely has a very skewed (if at all existant) view on the history of the genre.
Does anyone have an actual count of how many AGs have been released year after year? I would venture to say there are more now than ever. Back then you didn't have the freeware or indie titles you have today. Some of which are quite good. If you are basing the the best time period solely on the number of titles that were produced, then 2001-2005 might just be it.
Ok, let's please not put indy games like Other Worlds on the same level as full commercial releases like Gabriel Knight. It's 2 entirely different classes of game.
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| 22 APR 2006 at 9:37pm |
MorgausePrivate Detective
Posts : 687
Joined: 2 SEP 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Ksandra (20 APR 2006 8:51pm)
And who on earth chose the first category?! Come on, own up.
Heh. The first one was the closest to "No opinion" in the lot, and will not affect the results directly. I had no intent to actually vote, though I still wanted to see the results, hence my sitting on the lunatic fringe.
There *was* more than one adventure back then though, even if you exclude 1980; at least I will have *some* freedom in my choice of adventure games. :
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| 22 APR 2006 at 9:48pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By alkis21 (22 APR 2006 4:50pm)
Originally Posted By Betje (22 APR 2006 2:37pm)
Don't turn this into something it isn't. My post was not about the year of release, it was about you claiming those games were left out of Pagoda. They were not.
I'm not turning this into anything, and I wasn't criticising Pagoda. I was just replying to FickFack's comment that "Only 29 games were released in 1991". Pagoda's list of "adventure games released in 1991" was incomplete, partly because they disctributed some of the games to other years.
That was totally unclear. How is the reader supposed to know that your criticism of Pagoda is limited to one year if you don't state that explicitly. The context of FF's post was no help either because FF mentioned 3 different years, not just 1991. And your release years were in several cases way off too.
Is this about Amiga games all of a sudden?
No, it's about Adventure Games. The first year of release of a game is the first year the company released the game on *any* platform, in *any* continent. Back then, not all games were released on PC first.
Yeah, so...? Are you also criticizing Pagoda for not covering all platforms? You might as well say that Pagoda is incomplete because it leaves out shooters, strategy games, interactive movies etcetera. Because Amiga is not there. Atari is not either. Hell, even my very first computer The New Brain is ignored! (The platforms are on the first page, in plain view, next to the genres. Don't tell me you missed that too.)
And I get it, Text Adventures are not listed in Pagoda, I missed that in Fickfack's post and I was imprecise regarding some dates. That still doesn't give you the right to raise your disgusting BS flag.
A JA-approved flag. Nothing disgusting about it. You talk nonsense, you get the BS emoticon.
The fact is, I'm tired of your constant disrespect towards a great number of JAers, Betje, and judging from some very interesting private conversations I've had with some, so are several people.
Oh wow, enter the private conversations, the gossip, the complaints about Betje again! Don't you Beautiful People, from BJ to Caroline to T.Penrod to Alkis and all the countless but anonymous supporters have nothing better to do than discuss Evil Betje in private? You make me feel sooooo powerful! And if the PM you sent me is anything to go by, I wouldn't call the level you stoop to "interesting". Only BJ stooped lower in private.
This is a place for people to voice their opinions on adventure games. This is NOT a place for you or anyone else to display your inferiority complexes. From now on, my replies to you will be of the exact tone your replies to me are,
Good, that will be a definite improvement.
I'm not going to start any fights but I will gladly respond when provoked, and I suggest everyone does the same to you.
I'm sure *everybody* will do exactly as they see fit.
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| 22 APR 2006 at 9:55pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By jujigatame (22 APR 2006 9:20pm)
[Ok, let's please not put indy games like Other Worlds on the same level as full commercial releases like Gabriel Knight. It's 2 entirely different classes of game.
Exactly. It simply does NOT make sense to put them on the same level.
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| 22 APR 2006 at 11:42pm |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Terry, I couldn't agree more with your last post.
Originally Posted By jujigatame (22 APR 2006 9:20pm)
Ok, let's please not put indy games like Other Worlds on the same level as full commercial releases like Gabriel Knight. It's 2 entirely different classes of game.
Nobody puts games like Other Worlds on the same level with Gabriel Knight.. Few games are on the same level with Gabriel Knight. But not all commercial releases are by default better than the Indie ones.. I can name 10 amateur games that were significally better than, say, Search for the King, Universe, Comer and Pompei. So if we count every commercial game under the sun, I think we should count the good amateur games as well.
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| 23 APR 2006 at 12:14am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By jujigatame (22 APR 2006 9:20pm)
Of course not. This is a public internet poll. It's not binding or meaningful outside this board in anyway, so anybody can do whatever they want with it. I'm just pointing out that anyone who voted for the 2001-2005 time period likely has a very skewed (if at all existant) view on the history of the genre.
Agreed.
Ok, let's please not put indy games like Other Worlds on the same level as full commercial releases like Gabriel Knight. It's 2 entirely different classes of game.
I have to disagree here. You can't say that all 100+ commercial AGs released in 1996 were of commercial quality. There was some serious junk in there, just like there is some serious junk in the indie offerings. You also can't go through each one and decide which is 'good' and which is bad. Each person has different tastes.
However, going from the Pagoda site...I noticed some interesting things in the numbers. There are just as many AGs being made now (if not more) as there were in the early 90's when AG's ruled the gaming world. I think the only difference is that percentage wise, you have a lot more offerings out there so they don't dominate like they used to, but as far as titles go, they are still being produced in the same numbers if not more.
The biggest years with the most offerings (commercial only) was 1995-1998. I can only imagine that had to do with Phantasmagoria and The Beast within selling millions of copies and publishers jumping on the bandwagon. There's also the influence of Myst that came out in late 1993 and sold millions through out 1994.
Oddly, 2001 was another year when a lot of AGs came out. o you guys think that could be the result of The Longest Journey from 2000 causing publishers to get back into the AG development game?
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| 23 APR 2006 at 1:12am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Ivinia (23 APR 2006 12:14am)
Originally Posted By jujigatame (22 APR 2006 9:20pm)
Of course not. This is a public internet poll. It's not binding or meaningful outside this board in anyway, so anybody can do whatever they want with it. I'm just pointing out that anyone who voted for the 2001-2005 time period likely has a very skewed (if at all existant) view on the history of the genre.
Agreed.
Ok, let's please not put indy games like Other Worlds on the same level as full commercial releases like Gabriel Knight. It's 2 entirely different classes of game.
I have to disagree here. You can't say that all 100+ commercial AGs released in 1996 were of commercial quality. There was some serious junk in there, just like there is some serious junk in the indie offerings. You also can't go through each one and decide which is 'good' and which is bad. Each person has different tastes.
There is such a thing as "quality". It may be elusive when you try to define it in words, but it's there to see, feel, hear and touch. If not smell.
The biggest years with the most offerings (commercial only) was 1995-1998. I can only imagine that had to do with Phantasmagoria and The Beast within selling millions of copies and publishers jumping on the bandwagon. There's also the influence of Myst that came out in late 1993 and sold millions through out 1994.
I don't think that's entirely true. Myst, yes. Phantasmagoria (GB? hm...) and puzzle games like the 7th Guest stand for the new technology: the CD which made speech and FMV possible. A whole new exciting era of experimenting. The most creative, innovative adventures unlike anything seen before were made and released in those years: Bad Mojo, Bad Day on the Midway, Dark Eye, Puppet Motel, Eastern Mind, Discworld, Obsidian, Last Express, etcetera. And for the most part they failed.
Oddly, 2001 was another year when a lot of AGs came out. Do you guys think that could be the result of The Longest Journey from 2000 causing publishers to get back into the AG development game?
No. There weren't all that many true AGs if you don't count RPGs and the indies anyway. And one year isn't long enough to develop new games based on the release of TLJ.
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