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| 30 MAR 2006 at 3:47am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By infernoj13usa (30 MAR 2006 1:52am)
Never physically...but virtually, yes we have...a few years ago. It's clear that you don't remember me...and that's OK. I remember you. It's nice to "see" you again.
No, we have not met, virtually or otherwise. I've read some of your posts at GB, I know your site, that's all.
I'm so sorry that you took Aya's review so personally. Do you need to talk about it?
You should think I'd be used to it by now, but it always comes as a surprise when people don't [s]want to [/s]understand a word I've said.
Maybe you should have a closer look --> My article on Other Worlds has no Grade at all.
My mistake. Got your over-the-top Scratches review and your gushing Other Words review mixed up.
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| 30 MAR 2006 at 4:35am |
infernoj13usaIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 79
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Betje (30 MAR 2006 3:47am)
No, we have not met, virtually or otherwise. I've read some of your posts at GB, I know your site, that's all.
AH yes! That's where it was -- GB... I knew that I remembered you. You helped to explain something to me when I was very new there. I have never forgotten your kindness. It's ok that you don't wish to acknowledge it ... it was a very long time ago and hardly worth remembering.
And you know of my little site? How delightful... Please let me know if you ever have trouble running an older game on XP... I should be quite pleased to help you.
You should think I'd be used to it by now, but it always comes as a surprise when people don't [s]want to [/s]understand a word I've said.
Yes, so sad when we are missinterpreted...cut down and made to look the fool at another's expense. But be happy in the knowledge that you do bring interest and joy to many. No doubt, the gaming forum communities are indeed better places to visit with you at the helm of your lively and witty posts. I for one always take the time to read what you write when I am here.
Take care of yourself, my sweet.
Most sincerely:
inferno
[url=http://home.earthlink.net/~angeldancer27/XpGameList.htm][font=Verdana][size=16][color=#ff3300][b]Inferno's Adventures[/b][/color][/size][/font][/url]&&&&[url=http://home.earthlink.net/~infernosadventures/My_Scribblings.htm][font=Verdana][size=14][color=#ff3300][b]My Scribblings[/b][/color][/size][/font][/url]&&
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| 30 MAR 2006 at 4:59am |
| Deleted User | So glad I could help you years ago, although I could have sworn you (#3480) were already a veteran when I (#3839) joined GB and I have no idea what you're talking about. But it brought back very fond memories of GB.
Please give my love to all the wonderful hardworking moderators and everybody else at GB! And a very special hello to Syd.
Oh, and here's the list of games I'm having problems with.
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| 30 MAR 2006 at 6:26am |
infernoj13usaIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 79
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Betje (30 MAR 2006 4:59am)
So glad I could help you years ago, although I could have sworn you (#3480) were already a veteran when I (#3839) joined GB and I have no idea what you're talking about. But it brought back very fond memories of GB.
So -- you do remember! How wonderful. I joined in Jun 2002 and you followed in Aug 2002 --- I was very new to adventure games then.
Please give my love to all the wonderful hardworking moderators and everybody else at GB!
I promise I will --- again it was lovely to see you again on the boards.
Oh, and here's the list of games I'm having problems with.
I take it, that is your spirited way of saying that you are suffering no problems with any older games. That's wonderful to hear. I bet your wisdom would be doubly appreciated in the Technical Forums here at JA.
Have fun with your posts -- I thoroughly enjoyed speaking with you.
***************************************************
But I have taken up far too much of this thread's time --- I'd like to turn it back now to it's original topic:
Originally Posted By Pastor Disaster (22 MAR 2006 2:35pm)
Come on, it's been a couple of weeks already! We spineless weasels who need someone else to tell us what to play are dying to find out whether to buy Scratches or not! I need an official recommendation!
I see that Jennifer's review is finally up for Scratches
inferno
[url=http://home.earthlink.net/~angeldancer27/XpGameList.htm][font=Verdana][size=16][color=#ff3300][b]Inferno's Adventures[/b][/color][/size][/font][/url]&&&&[url=http://home.earthlink.net/~infernosadventures/My_Scribblings.htm][font=Verdana][size=14][color=#ff3300][b]My Scribblings[/b][/color][/size][/font][/url]&&
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| 30 MAR 2006 at 9:00am |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Betje (30 MAR 2006 12:35am)
I'm sure lots of fanboys and girls love reading about Alkis in navy uniform
Air Force, actually.
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| 30 MAR 2006 at 12:33pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By infernoj13usa (30 MAR 2006 6:26am)
So -- you do remember! How wonderful. I joined in Jun 2002 and you followed in Aug 2002 --- I was very new to adventure games then.
No, I don't. Had to look up my own number too. Promise me never to tell me what you think it is you remember about me. It's so much more fun that way... you can refer to your secret personal vendetta every time we meet!
I promise I will --- again it was lovely to see you again on the boards.
Yeah, we're both having a ball.
I take it, that is your spirited way of saying that you are suffering no problems with any older games.
Actually, no. I forgot to paste the list of games you probably have never heard of anyway. But I noticed at GB you're currently working on three (3!) amateur reviews, I wouldn't dream of bothering you, darling.
Have fun with your posts -- I thoroughly enjoyed speaking with you.
Byebye! See you soon!
Don't be a stranger now!
I see that Jennifer's review is finally up for Scratches
The reviewer tells us to:
"...pick up a copy of this game when your next paycheck comes through and show some love to Nucleosys."
while dismissing Still Life, Sanitarium, Phantasmagoria and Ripper (all A-rated games except Phantasmagoria) as "cheap gore fests which had their scary moments". Shivers, Blackstone Chronicles and Morpheus are apparently not up to Scratch either.
I'd better sit on my hands. :-X
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| 30 MAR 2006 at 12:36pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By alkis21 (30 MAR 2006 9:00am)
Originally Posted By Betje (30 MAR 2006 12:35am)
I'm sure lots of fanboys and girls love reading about Alkis in navy uniform
Air Force, actually.
Oh dear, how remiss of me... a red uniform, was it?
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| 30 MAR 2006 at 2:34pm |
kuddlesPrivate Detective
Posts : 702
Joined: 22 OCT 2004
Status : Online | Your congratulations and gushing tone -- "thank you, thank you for this wild adventure!" are in my not very humble opinion just as bad as Aya's "all that garnished with a great deal of humor, that will have you rolling on the floor laughing – that is, if you can appreciate good humor". If the game doesn't make me laugh, I have no sense of humor...? Both you and Aya make it abundantly clear that you have chosen not to write an objective review.
Originally Posted By Betje (30 MAR 2006 12:33pm)
while dismissing Still Life, Sanitarium, Phantasmagoria and Ripper (all A-rated games except Phantasmagoria) as "cheap gore fests which had their scary moments". Shivers, Blackstone Chronicles and Morpheus are apparently not up to Scratch either.
And you're accusing other people of taking the comments of others too seriously.
Promise me never to tell me what you think it is you remember about me. It's so much more fun that way... you can refer to your secret personal vendetta every time we meet!
I love how you constantly use the term "personal vendetta" (out of context, I might add) even though it is you who is clearly vindictive. Even the above quote indicates as such.
[size=10][b]Games:[/b] Europa Universalis III&&[b]Music:[/b] [i]Awoo[/i] - Hidden Cameras&&[b]Series:[/b] Dexter (S1)&&[b]Movies:[/b] The Prestige (8/10) Little Miss Sunshine (5/10)&&[/size]
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| 30 MAR 2006 at 2:42pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Betje (30 MAR 2006 12:35am)
I feel you and Aya and all the other biased people who embrace every single new adventure and get outraged at the first sign of criticism, are doing the adventure community a real disservice.
guilty as charged! if supporting substance over presentation and fighting against the "sokalization" of the genre (ie amazingly beautiful graphics with nothing else actually) makes me "biased" then guilty as charged... whether it's a disservice, that's just your opinion
tell me btw, have you played other worlds? or did you go "look at those sshots, i am not playing that"... if you haven't played it, you have no ground to stand on and critisize its reviews... if you have played it, i would like to hear what your problem was with the game, besides its bad gfx... if your problem was the gfx, and that is the reason you dismiss it, then i rest my case...
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 30 MAR 2006 at 6:12pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By kuddles (30 MAR 2006 2:34pm)
And you're accusing other people of taking the comments of others too seriously.
Oh, nonsense. Stop putting words into my mouth. I only agreed with someone else's post about how Crapstorm's comments were being misunderstood, that people took him seriously when he was just kidding around. Which has absolutely NO relevance for JA's review of Scratches and the quote.
I love how you constantly use the term "personal vendetta" (out of context, I might add) even though it is you who is clearly vindictive. Even the above quote indicates as such.
The use of the words "personal vendetta" at the forums goes back several years. And if you think Evil Betje was the one who started using that term, you haven't been around for very long. In THIS thread Aya used the words "personal vendetta" I objected to. And as far as Inferno is concerned, I can only conclude you missed the gist of the exchange.
You want a serious discussion? Fine. But the message I'm getting is that you're just looking for a stick to hit Evil Betje with.
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| 31 MAR 2006 at 3:02pm |
| Deleted User | Have I won yet?
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| 31 MAR 2006 at 6:00pm |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | Wow, another A-graded review posted on JA. Betje is right, the rating system has been devalued. Plus, you call Sanitarium a cheap gore-fest while calling Scratches a classic? I'm sorry, but your credibility is gone with me after that one.
A word of advice about reviews. When you fail to mention a single negative about a game and spend every sentence of the review gushing over how great it is, that is a problem. There's no such thing as a perfect game, and when you do this with a game that is getting decent but not-as-spectacular reviews elsewhere, it makes me question your objectivity as a reviewer.
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| 31 MAR 2006 at 6:25pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Likewise, did you read the review or did you just focus on the Sanitarium comment and make up your mind from there?
When you fail to mention a single negative about a game and spend every sentence of the review gushing over how great it is, that is a problem.
Then what would you call this:
There isn’t really a definite “use item here, dummy” icon, and this became confusing because you can look at and get a comment on almost everything in the house. There were times when I would walk around trying to use an item with everything I could click on just to figure out the purpose of having it in my inventory. The item will light up when you pass it across the item being looked at, but there is no separate action icon. The second gripe is the limit of 10 savegame slots. Why only ten? Why not 40? Because of the scary nature of the game, I played it in small doses (considering I only had time at night). This became a problem if I wanted to save after every small session and I ended up having to save over some of my earlier games.
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| 31 MAR 2006 at 11:36pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Funny. You complain about a gushing review, which barely addressed any negatives, and yet you posted and defended a scathing review, which barely addressed any positives. Which is the one losing credibility here?
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| 1 APR 2006 at 12:14am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Aya (30 MAR 2006 2:42pm)
guilty as charged! if supporting substance over presentation and fighting against the "sokalization" of the genre (ie amazingly beautiful graphics with nothing else actually) makes me "biased" then guilty as charged... whether it's a disservice, that's just your opinion
Totally separate from the Scratches issue: If I was someone who wanted to be looked on as a reliable AG reviewer, I would want to be thought of as unbiased and I certainly wouldn't trash the man behind Amerzone and the Syberias, if for no other reason than he is highly respected in the adventure game community.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 1 APR 2006 at 2:36am |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Agustin (31 MAR 2006 11:36pm)
Funny. You complain about a gushing review, which barely addressed any negatives, and yet you posted and defended a scathing review, which barely addressed any positives. Which is the one losing credibility here?
Aren't you doing the exact same thing in reverse?
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| 1 APR 2006 at 2:44am |
KingRyanSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 281
Joined: 25 JAN 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By jujigatame (1 APR 2006 2:36am)
Originally Posted By Agustin (31 MAR 2006 11:36pm)
Funny. You complain about a gushing review, which barely addressed any negatives, and yet you posted and defended a scathing review, which barely addressed any positives. Which is the one losing credibility here?
Aren't you doing the exact same thing in reverse?
I believe Agustin is trying to say, there are more ways to discredit an entirely negative review than a positive one.
[size=14][b]Currently Playing:[/b]&&Sherlock Holmes: Nemesis[/size]
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| 1 APR 2006 at 2:56am |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Not quite. I only pointed out the fact that some people are charging against overly positive reviews, and yet have no qualms about defending an overly negative one. I think any review could be discredited just the same.
It just happens to be easier to discredit the GameSpot one in this case, that's all.
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| 1 APR 2006 at 2:34pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SirDave (1 APR 2006 12:14am)
Totally separate from the Scratches issue: If I was someone who wanted to be looked on as a reliable AG reviewer, I would want to be thought of as unbiased and I certainly wouldn't trash the man behind Amerzone and the Syberias, if for no other reason than he is highly respected in the adventure game community.
you do have a good point here, so let me explain what i mean... i am not trashing sokal himself... i actually enjoyed playing the syberias, in a way i would enjoy watching a good movie... but i consider them (that particular style of game) as harmful to the genre... the style of one pointer that highlights when you need to click, with no other interaction and no real puzzles is not how adventure games should be... i am currently replaying gabriel knight, and everything is up to me to do, and i can interact with everything... that is adventure gaming... the syberias could as well be cgi movies like final fantasy, and the only difference would have been that you wouldn't need to click... so, when i am saying "sokalization", i mean turning the genre into just beautiful movies with no substance whatsoever... and that is what i am fighting against, not sokal himself (whos new game i am looking forward to btw)
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 1 APR 2006 at 4:14pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4953
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Aya (1 APR 2006 2:33pm)
Originally Posted By SirDave (1 APR 2006 12:14am)
Totally separate from the Scratches issue: If I was someone who wanted to be looked on as a reliable AG reviewer, I would want to be thought of as unbiased and I certainly wouldn't trash the man behind Amerzone and the Syberias, if for no other reason than he is highly respected in the adventure game community.
you do have a good point here, so let me explain what i mean... i am not trashing sokal himself... ... so, when i am saying "sokalization", i mean turning the genre into just beautiful movies with no substance whatsoever... and that is what i am fighting against, not sokal himself (whos new game i am looking forward to btw)
I understand that you didn't mean 'sokalization' as a personal attack, but it was a major slam at his work which really surprises me. Here's the thing- you also have a general aversion to the Myst/Myst-like games, having even been on record as saying (paraphrasing) that a list of them can turn people away from other AGs (or something like that). So, having wiped out games that are heavily point & click, puzzle-oriented & Benoit Sokal's games (and any that might be like it), you've painted yourself into a corner when it comes to approaching a new game with unbiased objectivity.
Personally, I think Sokal brought a breath of fresh air to AGs. Much as I like the Myst-like games, he designed games that appealed to people who liked both the Myst-like games & games like Gabriel Knight. Syberia is on a lot of people's top 25 list- it certainly was #10 on Cranky's 'Top 50 Adventure Games of All Time' list that a lot of people contributed to. The other thing is that his games aren't all alike: the Syberias were quite different from Amerzone and his next game is going to be quite different from the Syberias.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 1 APR 2006 at 7:15pm |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By jujigatame (31 MAR 2006 6:00pm)
Wow, another A-graded review posted on JA. Betje is right, the rating system has been devalued. Plus, you call Sanitarium a cheap gore-fest while calling Scratches a classic? I'm sorry, but your credibility is gone with me after that one.
A word of advice about reviews. When you fail to mention a single negative about a game and spend every sentence of the review gushing over how great it is, that is a problem. There's no such thing as a perfect game, and when you do this with a game that is getting decent but not-as-spectacular reviews elsewhere, it makes me question your objectivity as a reviewer.
In my opinion, failing to mention the negatives is the least of this review's problems. What is the story of this game about? What are the puzzles like? The story is described in three vague sentences and nothing is mentioned about the puzzles. Are they inventory-based? Are they easy? Are they logical? This is an adventure we're talking about, not a movie. I mean no disrespect to Jennifer, but she doesn't describe the game at all. This review won't help anyone decide whether Scratches is worth buying or not. All you can tell by reading it is that Jennifer loved it, which may or may not mean anything. An experienced gamer will not buy the game judging only by the grade.
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| 1 APR 2006 at 8:04pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SirDave (1 APR 2006 4:14pm)
I understand that you didn't mean 'sokalization' as a personal attack, but it was a major slam at his work which really surprises me. Here's the thing- you also have a general aversion to the Myst/Myst-like games, having even been on record as saying (paraphrasing) that a list of them can turn people away from other AGs (or something like that). So, having wiped out games that are heavily point & click, puzzle-oriented & Benoit Sokal's games (and any that might be like it), you've painted yourself into a corner when it comes to approaching a new game with unbiased objectivity.
Personally, I think Sokal brought a breath of fresh air to AGs. Much as I like the Myst-like games, he designed games that appealed to people who liked both the Myst-like games & games like Gabriel Knight. Syberia is on a lot of people's top 25 list- it certainly was #10 on Cranky's 'Top 50 Adventure Games of All Time' list that a lot of people contributed to. The other thing is that his games aren't all alike: the Syberias were quite different from Amerzone and his next game is going to be quite different from the Syberias.
i don't believe there's anyone that can be totally unbiased... every person have their own preferences, their own likes and dislikes... it is the reason why i would never do a review of a myst-clone... but i would do a review of syberia, which would probably be somewhere around a B (with explanation in the review itself) and any other 3rd person p'n'c game, cause that is my preference... not liking some games from that sub-genre doesn't make me biased... i'm sure that there are myst-clones that you don't like... and i do give everything a fair chance... i liked aura for example, and i also liked myst 3 (well, not crazy about it, but it wasn't bad either)...
i do not believe the syberias brought a breath of fresh air... i believe they made adventures more accessible to casual gamers and to ppl who knew nothing about the genre, mainly because of their appearance and their incredible easiness and lack of challenge... it is a fact that the mainstream (in all areas, not just games) wants "light" and non brain taxing things... that's what syberia was... but it did ruin it for the more experienced adventurers, and there are plenty of old adventurers that can back this up... and cranky's poll doesn't say too much, since a lot of the active members of this forum started their adventuring with syberia, which makes it natural that they would vote for it
and, in general, i do not have a problem with syberia itself... like i do not have a problem with myst itself... my problem is when those games spawn dozens and dozens of clones...
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 1 APR 2006 at 11:23pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | ...which is not Myst's fault, is it? :
Well, I played the Myst games - except for the latest and the off-spring - and I liked or even loved them...my preference has changed sometime in the last two years. On this subject, I am clearly your enemy, now.
I still haven't played Syberia, because I don't think I will like it that much. I played both the Syberia and Syberia 2 demos and they didn't jive with me. Of course, I have to reserve any judgement on those as long as I haven't played them. Which might take a while.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 1 APR 2006 at 11:59pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By alkis21 (1 APR 2006 7:14pm)
In my opinion, failing to mention the negatives is the least of this review's problems. What is the story of this game about? What are the puzzles like? The story is described in three vague sentences and nothing is mentioned about the puzzles. Are they inventory-based? Are they easy? Are they logical? This is an adventure we're talking about, not a movie. I mean no disrespect to Jennifer, but she doesn't describe the game at all. This review won't help anyone decide whether Scratches is worth buying or not. All you can tell by reading it is that Jennifer loved it, which may or may not mean anything. An experienced gamer will not buy the game judging only by the grade.
I have to agree. Regardless of whether the grade is justified, I was astonished by how little the review actually said about the game. It's pretty much the same problem as with the Gamespot review, only in reverse.
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