| 20 DEC 2005 at 1:23pm |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | I haven't played Alida yet, but I just want to agree on node-to-node movement. One of the nice things about (good) adventure games is that the majority of what you do is think. You play an executive role. If you want to go somewhere, you give the command "go there" and it's done automatically. Like Captain Kirk telling Mr. Sulu to "set a course for Romulus-4." I don't like to constantly drive the mouse or fiddle with the keys to pilot my character into the right position. That's trivial and not what adventure games are about for me. Node-to-node travel is clean, easy and abstract, and it lets me focus on the real pleasures of the game, like puzzling.
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| 21 DEC 2005 at 1:38am |
Lady KestrelGuild Master
Posts : 4047
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, NJ
Status : Offline | I'm glad you liked it, Colpet. As I've mentioned before, it is a top favorite of mine.
Regarding a sequel, Cos Russo mentioned a while ago that he was thinking of doing one, but between upgrading the original Mac version to OS X, making the Windows version and then the DVD for parts of Europe, it probably was put on the back burner for a while. If I hear anything, I'll let you know.
Crapstorm,
From the types of games you seem to like, I think Alida would be a good one for you to play. There are some unique and tough but well-cued puzzles, no sliders, and no mazes.
"Where is the fountain that throws up these flowers in a ceaseless outbreak of ecstasy?"
-Rabindranath Tagore
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| 21 DEC 2005 at 2:46am |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | Yeah, it's on my X-mas list. Not sure if I'll get it though. Been pretty naughty this year.
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| 21 DEC 2005 at 4:30am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Crapstorm (21 DEC 2005 2:45am)
Yeah, it's on my X-mas list. Not sure if I'll get it though. Been pretty naughty this year.
Oh, behave!
Alida is worth the effort.
Speck
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| 21 DEC 2005 at 5:25am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Ok, you guys won. I finally purchased this one through the JA store.
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| 21 DEC 2005 at 12:39pm |
colpetSchattenjger
Posts : 1632
Joined: 12 APR 2003
Status : Offline | Let us know what you think.
Occasionally visiting Uru Live (KI 0063722 .&&
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| 30 DEC 2005 at 7:56pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Wahoo! Alida has arrived from Just Adventure Fulfillment!!
How cool is that?
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| 1 JAN 2006 at 12:59am |
shed22Space Cadet
Posts : 106
Joined: 18 SEP 2005
Status : Offline | I too request that tell us what you think. I enjoyed the game, but never quite understood it. I spent the whole time struggling and thinking I was one of the dumber humans on the planet.
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| 1 JAN 2006 at 2:43am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | So far I like it. There were a few technical oddities that were minor such as no installation program so you have to copy a folder on to your hard drive and the screen being 800X600 (or was that 640X480?) so when it ran on my 1280 x 1024 screen it was a pretty small box with the game screen in the center surrounded by black. Again, these are minor things.
I'm a bit fascinated by it all right now. It seems very open ended and non-linear. Plenty of things to do/solve in the order of my choosing. At least I think they are. It's still early, but my first impression is favorable.
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| 21 JAN 2006 at 3:57pm |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | Finally got around to playing ALIDA. My first impression was quite favourable. Pretty graphics, large interesting island to explore, neat devices, backstory and clues all presented in a cryptic but intriguing fashion.
It was all downhill from there.
I poked around for about three hours this morning without discovering anything new. I realized that I had only solved one simple puzzle so far, and I was completely stymied now. I had acquired many clues and taken copious notes, but it was clear that in order to make any progress I needed something else. That horrible feeling set in. There's a hotspot somewhere on this giant island and I can't do anything until I find it.
I debated with myself for a while. Should I go straight to a walkthrough and have someone just tell me where the hotspot is, or should I do a systematic search of the island, squinting at the screen and painting every pixel with my pointer? Unfortunately, the pointer in ALIDA does not always change shape when hovering over a hotspot, so pixel-hunting is doubly difficult. I decided to go with the walkthrough.
Sure enough, I had walked past a button about 10 times without finding it. I did see the five differently coloured pixels on one of my previous passes, but clicking on it revealed nothing, so I moved on. This is what I classify as EXTREMELY ANNOYING GAME DESIGN.
But that was just the beginning of my torment. Two minutes later, I found myself once again stuck with no idea what to do next. After a bit of wandering, I went back to the walkthrough. Seems what I had to do was go into one room, look at something I've already looked at more than a dozen times, and then go to another room 50 clicks away where a vital clue would magically appear. Repeat after me: EXTREMELY ANNOYING GAME DESIGN.
There was another dazzling example of EAGD waiting right around the corner, but I won't go into it.
Lady Kestral, what did you mean when you said the puzzles were "well-cued"? That looking trigger was one of the worst I've ever encountered in an adventure game.
And colpet, what did you mean by "well-layered"? At this point, I have my doubts that there is a single good puzzle in the game. I simply cannot finish this one without a walkthrough. I don't possess the eyesight to find the hidden buttons nor the patience to wander around re-examining everything in hopes of triggering silent events.
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| 21 JAN 2006 at 4:46pm |
colpetSchattenjger
Posts : 1632
Joined: 12 APR 2003
Status : Offline | And colpet, what did you mean by "well-layered"? At this point, I have my doubts that there is a single good puzzle in the game. I simply cannot finish this one without a walkthrough. I don't possess the eyesight to find the hidden buttons nor the patience to wander around re-examining everything in hopes of triggering silent events. Well layered in the sense that there is an overall 'big picture' if you will.
For example:
Spoiler AlertThere are 3 doors in the South Hall. Each has a puzzle to solve before they open. The clues for each puzzle are in the vaults (flashing lights, dots, and musical notes). Each area of Alida has its own little puzzles. Then there's the overall quandary of getting the settings (switch, potentiometers, peghead) right so that the guitar will play the tune needed to open the vaults. All the clues for the settings were available as a vid clip found in various areas of the Island. It all seemed to be very organized. In addition, it's only through exploration that you will be able to piece together what happened to the band members. At the beginning, it was very confusing, but as I looked around and accessed more areas, it all started to make sense.
This is as opposed to Aura or Sentinel where the puzzles were used only to access new areas.
Occasionally visiting Uru Live (KI 0063722 .&&
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| 21 JAN 2006 at 5:00pm |
shed22Space Cadet
Posts : 106
Joined: 18 SEP 2005
Status : Offline | I don't usually get into these discussions, bit I didn't consider it a problem with the game design. I played ALIDA and spent lots of time wandering around wondering. The problem with ALIDA is the same problem I had with RHEM 2. I finally realized that the guy who dreamed up this game was a LOT smarter than me. Once I dealt with that, I knew it would take forever and I happily wandered around; took copious notes; did lots of pixal hunting; and finally solved things. Hats off to the designers of these games. They just function in an intellectual world that is superior to mine. 8-)
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| 22 JAN 2006 at 12:55am |
Lady KestrelGuild Master
Posts : 4047
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, NJ
Status : Offline | By well-clued, I meant that all the information is present on the island, and everything is explained one way or another. However, it takes lots of exploring to put all the pieces together and, yes, lots of notes. As Colpet describes, it has a meta-puzzle design, which to me is similar to Cliff Johnson's games The Fool's Errand and 3 in Three in which all the small puzzles come together to help the gamer solve the main problem. The gamer has to be comfortable for quite a while with not knowing the solutions or even the correct course of action.
My advice is to explore and try everything and then explore some more. When I played the game the first time, I missed a clue in a remote location (an obvious one, in retrospect) that kept me from solving one of the area puzzles. It wasn't because of a pixel hunt but because I hadn't made a certain association. However, that "ah-ha" moment and several others were extremely satisfying. It took me over 2 weeks to play Alida the first time, and I've played it several times since then. If you want a nudge in the right direction without a blatant solution, I'll be glad to help.
"Where is the fountain that throws up these flowers in a ceaseless outbreak of ecstasy?"
-Rabindranath Tagore
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| 22 JAN 2006 at 4:06am |
| Deleted User | While I didn't have most of the problems with you did, I have to say that you nailed this one on the head:
Originally Posted By Crapstorm (21 JAN 2006 3:57pm)
... After a bit of wandering, I went back to the walkthrough. Seems what I had to do was go into one room, look at something I've already looked at more than a dozen times, and then go to another room 50 clicks away where a vital clue would magically appear. Repeat after me: EXTREMELY ANNOYING GAME DESIGN.
Aye!
And while I enjoyed the game more than you seem to be, I will add that this isn't a game that I plan on re-playing.
Chris
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| 22 JAN 2006 at 4:43am |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Lady Kestrel (22 JAN 2006 12:55am)
By well-clued, I meant that all the information is present on the island, and everything is explained one way or another.
Oh, well-clued. I could have sworn you said well-cued. Can't really agree with you, though. Clues that appear as the result of pointing your eyes at something several rooms away are not good. Something very much like this was discussed in a thread about Scratches (demo version) a couple of months ago. I don't think looking should ever be an event trigger, because it puts the player in the frustrating position where he or she must examine everything over and over again, even stuff that never changes. It just slows down the game and taxes the player's patience.
My advice is to explore and try everything and then explore some more.
Good advice for any adventure game. However, I hit an impasse almost immediately because one important button was obscured and very hard to activate. When I first clicked on it, it did nothing. Unbeknownst to me, the game required that I walk past the button, turn left, then gaze down. That last step is not possible in most other locations, so I completely missed it. Have I ever told you how much I hate hidden hotspots? It's my #1 grievance against this genre. I can re-explore for a little while, but when hours pass without discovering anything new, I tend to get a little frustrated.
When I played the game the first time, I missed a clue in a remote location (an obvious one, in retrospect) that kept me from solving one of the area puzzles. It wasn't because of a pixel hunt but because I hadn't made a certain association. However, that "ah-ha" moment and several others were extremely satisfying.
That would be fair. Unfortunately, my progress was blocked by something that was the complete opposite of obvious.
If you want a nudge in the right direction without a blatant solution, I'll be glad to help.
Just tell me where all the hidden buttons and nonsensical event triggers are.
The good news is, I'm starting to make progress. After I got those two major annoyances out of the way (using a walkthrough), the game actually got fun. One quandary sent me to my armchair for 15 minutes, which is the mark of a very good puzzle. I earned my ornithology and cryptography badges, and now I'm trying to link together the significance of several things. I wasn't impressed by the surprise dead-end, but I guess in the spirit of EXTREMELY ANNOYING GAME DESIGN, the developers felt they had to include one.
This game clearly has some very good features - a great, mysterious environment that is well-constructed and has a realistic ambiance, some excellent puzzles, and a devious plot. However, it suffers from a serious lack of integrity. I don't trust that future challenges will be entirely fair, and I am likely to resort to a walkthrough to bypass the tedious process of pixel-hunting, event triggering, and death avoidance. In so doing, I know that I am liable to ruin a perfectly fair puzzle, but I'll take that chance instead of wasting hours of my time.
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| 22 JAN 2006 at 4:44pm |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | UPDATE: I am nearing completion. I have a couple of nagging questions that I would rather not answer with a walkthrough. Please only read these if you have finished the game, because they will spoil it.
Spoiler AlertArin appears to be trapped inside the vault in the switch area. I go back there frequently in hopes of getting more codes from him, but usually he doesn't appear. When he does appear, he just glares at me like I'm an idiot. Is he going to give me anything more, or am I just wasting my time visiting him? Also, once when I activated the plectorum, Arin appeared OUTSIDE a vault door. Is he wandering around as freely as I am?
Spoiler AlertI discovered the hard way that Leval is not my friend. I can open his cell and walk away from it for any length of time, but he never seems to leave. He waits there for me so that he can karate chop me in the back of the head. I had to open his cell to see the clue painted on the floor, but there doesn't seem to be any way to close the door after that. Obviously, I don't want this guy wandering around. So, I "closed" the door by going back in time to a saved game. I feel a bit underhanded for using information that technically came from the future. My question is, is there any harm in leaving Leval's cell door wide open? Will he stay in there?
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| 22 JAN 2006 at 11:48pm |
shed22Space Cadet
Posts : 106
Joined: 18 SEP 2005
Status : Offline | I can't answer your first question,because I don't remember. As to your second question; open the cell door, look at the clue, and don't worry about closing the door. The trick is to not go in the room. Just look and leave.
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| 22 JAN 2006 at 11:49pm |
colpetSchattenjger
Posts : 1632
Joined: 12 APR 2003
Status : Offline | Spoiler AlertLook at what Arin is wearing . Other than that, there is no more advice to be had from the vault.
I'm not sure about Leval's room. I think once you open it, you get hit on the head. I went back to a saved game and left him in there. It was an odd way of getting the symbol, though in retrospect, the switch is connected to the conservatory, and they both share the same symbol. I actually assumed it was the conservatory's symbol since that's what you saw in the window of the switch, right next to the triangle black dot . A funny aside - I worked at the conservatory model puzzle for ages because I thought each 'note' was a series of movements in the triangle, not just the end position. I swear I started to go blind.
Occasionally visiting Uru Live (KI 0063722 .&&
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| 23 JAN 2006 at 4:42am |
Lady KestrelGuild Master
Posts : 4047
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, NJ
Status : Offline | Spoiler Alert[size=16]Leval will not come out even when the door is open as long as you don't go in. One small hint: Make sure you watch all of the recording in Arin's cabin, if you haven't already. It has several parts which are easy to overlook, and it may give you a hint regarding character identity. After giving you the clue for the moon tone cabinet puzzle, the man in the vault won't be helpful.
"Where is the fountain that throws up these flowers in a ceaseless outbreak of ecstasy?"
-Rabindranath Tagore
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| 28 JAN 2006 at 3:33pm |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | Gah. This game is so annoying. I give it a 5 out of 10. Overall, it's interesting and a couple of the puzzles are actually quite good, but the quality is very uneven. A lot of the puzzles are just lame code hunts, and some things don't seem to make any sense at all. Like, [spoiler midtext]Leval refusing to leave his cell when the door is wide open.
Now I'm at the end. I've figured out everything. But when I try to execute the final task, it doesn't work. I guess I have bungled one of the settings somewhere. I am having flashbacks to Riven, which gave me the same sense of exasperation.
I must have accidentally backed up over an important task when I was juggling my saved games. Would someone be kind enough to send me a saved game with everything but the final switch? I want to see the ending(s), but not badly enough to suffer the tedium of scrutinizing every single puzzle again.
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| 30 JAN 2006 at 11:55pm |
LagavulinPrivate Detective
Posts : 475
Joined: 21 OCT 2002
Status : Online |
Boy am I glad!
I´ve had this game on the "to play shelf" for some time now and after I´ve seen your comments on it, I KNOW I`M GOING TO LOVE IT. (I know we share the same taste for what we love in an adv game.)
Cheers Colpet
FOR THE MOMENT I AM PLAYING ON MY Win 7&&&&Recently Played&& ark Fall Lost Souls,Outcry,SH vs A Lupin,Tales of Monkey Island,Still Life 2,Sinking Island,Pandora Directive (RP),The Lost Crown
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| 1 FEB 2006 at 4:54am |
SKIPSTERIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 58
Joined: 9 DEC 2004
Status : Online | It is one of my favorites too.
Glad tou enjoyed it.
Just Adventure for More Adventure
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| 1 FEB 2006 at 7:59am |
snowtimeJourneyman
Posts : 1014
Joined: 28 JUN 2005
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Crapstorm (28 JAN 2006 3:33pm)
Gah. This game is so annoying. I give it a 5 out of 10. Overall, it's interesting and a couple of the puzzles are actually quite good, but the quality is very uneven. A lot of the puzzles are just lame code hunts, and some things don't seem to make any sense at all. Like, [spoiler midtext]Leval refusing to leave his cell when the door is wide open.
I agree with the essence of what you are saying but I wouldn't put it as strongly. I think the game deserves credit for vision with it's intriguing and unusual subject matter and setting. It did remind me of Riven, and anything that does that has earned a special place in my affection. However, I completely agree that there was too much time spent code hunting. It would have been nice to have more puzzles that could be solved on the spot using brainpower without having to traipse round the island several times just looking for clues. (Do the full install or the disk swapping will drive you mad.)
*
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
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| 1 FEB 2006 at 8:00am |
snowtimeJourneyman
Posts : 1014
Joined: 28 JUN 2005
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Lagavulin (30 JAN 2006 11:55pm)
Boy am I glad!
I´ve had this game on the "to play shelf" for some time now and after I´ve seen your comments on it, I KNOW I`M GOING TO LOVE IT. (I know we share the same taste for what we love in an adv game.)
Cheers Colpet
Have you played RHEM and Morpheus yet?
*
I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
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