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| 21 OCT 2005 at 2:42pm |
snowtimeJourneyman
Posts : 1014
Joined: 28 JUN 2005
Status : Online | Generally, I would say panoramic scenes are more immersive, but make sure that panning speed is adjustable because some people get quite nauseous with spinning around. (And take into account processor speed - some older games with panning require the use of a CPU slow down program to stop you spinning like a break dancer.)
The other thing to avoid with panoramic nodes is too much pixel hunting. Trying to find tiny hotspots on a still frame is bad enough. When you have 360° horizontal and maybe 90° vertical to search it can seriously annoy.
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| 21 OCT 2005 at 2:54pm |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | There are trade-offs between the two modes. I chose Panoramic, because when used properly, it makes for highly realistic and breathtaking scenes. The downside, for me, is that it increases the difficulty of hotspot-hunting a hundredfold. Furthermore, it can become tedious to have to stop and do several wobbly 360 spins every time you take a step.
There is definitely something to be said for the classical still frame format, which is simple, neat and functional. I hope not all games in the future go panoramic, because it doesn't suit every adventure design. For example, I wish Beyond Atlantis had used still views, because then I would not have missed half of the inventory items and hotspots.
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| 21 OCT 2005 at 2:58pm |
snowtimeJourneyman
Posts : 1014
Joined: 28 JUN 2005
Status : Online | Just to clarify my vote further. Although I voted panoramic, I was assuming that both options were the same quality of game. I'd rather have an excellent slideshow game than a mediocre panoramic any day.
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I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
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| 21 OCT 2005 at 3:44pm |
SyrillIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 78
Joined: 1 OCT 2004
Status : Offline | If the quality of the graphics is similar to that in your other games, I'd say to stick with still shots. I'd rather have more detailed, more lifelike still shots than panoramic shots.
On the other hand, it's your game and you should probably use what you think works best.
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| 21 OCT 2005 at 3:53pm |
AvatarPrivate Detective
Posts : 661
Joined: 3 JAN 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By snowtime (21 OCT 2005 2:58pm)
Just to clarify my vote further. Although I voted panoramic, I was assuming that both options were the same quality of game. I'd rather have an excellent slideshow game than a mediocre panoramic any day.
Ditto!
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| 21 OCT 2005 at 5:40pm |
Chris.Schattenjger
Posts : 1842
Joined: 8 MAR 2005
Status : Online | I hate slideshow games! I get lost very easily in them. That's why I gave up on The Dark Eye.
...not to be confused with Keira Knightley
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| 21 OCT 2005 at 6:08pm |
CBSection31Intergalactic Janitor
Posts : 65
Joined: 10 MAY 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Syrill (21 OCT 2005 3:44pm)
If the quality of the graphics is similar to that in your other games, I'd say to stick with still shots. I'd rather have more detailed, more lifelike still shots than panoramic shots.
The graphics will be infinitely better--that is my focus of improvement this time around. I'm modelling everything myself from scratch this time around (no premade models), and I'm using high end software instead of free software. So far, the results look MUCH, MUCH better!
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| 21 OCT 2005 at 8:06pm |
SusanGuild Master
Posts : 5485
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Let me put it this way: It was so much nicer to play a Nancy Drew game after the panoramic feature was implemented (Ghost Dogs of Moon Lake). Just move your mouse to the side instead of click-click-clicking all the time. As long as I don't get completely turned around, it's a nice feature.
I miss my Bubba: 1986 - 2006.
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| 21 OCT 2005 at 8:15pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Nancy Drew games are not panoramic at all nodes. The center of a room may allow you to pan. But most nodes are not panoramic. The very first Nancy Drew game - Secrets Can Kill - actually offered more panoramic nodes than most of the later ones.
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| 21 OCT 2005 at 8:39pm |
SusanGuild Master
Posts : 5485
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: 0
Status : Offline | True. Whereas, say, a Myst game like Exile or Revelation (or maybe both) or heck, even Shivers 2 (despite the ultra-fast panning it does on modern machines) is like that no matter where you are, ND is only like that in certain areas - and usually large rooms.
But once it was implemented, it helped to put those rooms into perspective. Or just give me a simple way to be entertained by spinning around in a circle.
I miss my Bubba: 1986 - 2006.
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| 21 OCT 2005 at 10:44pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Having just finsihed replaying the end of Syberia 2 immediately after some really nice full 3D Neverwinter Nights mods, I really missed the ability to just stand in one place, pan / zoom around and drink in the beautiful landscape as I saw fit. I also kept trying to dolly around interactive objects to get a better view and zoom right in on specific items. Of course, static point and clicks will allow neither.
This never used to bother me in the good old days when virtually all PC adventure games and RPGs were in 2D with prerendered, mostly still background artwork. But now that 360 degree panoramas and full 3D have been refined so much, it really is beginning to feel restrictive.
What's important to remember though is that even in full 3D, a smart designer can still control all exporable paths within all levels / maps, all triggered story points and dialog for pacing, all specific access to close-ups / puzzles screens and all other elements that when done too loosely, can actually detract from good interactive storytelling. So the secret is to keep things as tight as they need to be in order to work for that specific type of game. For story-driven adventures, that means very tight and never too linear.
If the designer maintains control through proper level design, logical NPC placement, timely cut scene triggers, etc., then there is no reason that a game like Syberia could not also be rendered in full 3D to allow at least a little free roaming exploration / looking and easier inspection of detailed items in the immediate game world.
There is no rule that says any action elements need to be included simply because 3D makes that option so attractive and easy in other types of new games. Neverwinter Nights for instance still has a very intuitive, simple, mouse-controlled interface for all character movement, interaction and access to menus. But it also lets the player freely look around, pan, zoom and really get "into" the surroundings more like the way real people explore real settings in the real world... which is of course in 3D and not a handpainted backdrop only viewable from a fixed perspective.
Cheers, Terry
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| 22 OCT 2005 at 6:57am |
| Deleted User | Can you explain the difference between the two?
What is Myst V? Isn't it both?
I am confused, but voted for still frames.
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| 22 OCT 2005 at 1:08pm |
Chris.Schattenjger
Posts : 1842
Joined: 8 MAR 2005
Status : Online | Panoramic scenes let you freely rotate the view through 360*, usually by moving the mouse to the edge of the screen.
Still frames or slideshows only let you rotate in 90* increments, usually by clicking on an arrow cursor at the edge of the screen.
...not to be confused with Keira Knightley
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| 22 OCT 2005 at 1:45pm |
Alan ThornSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 240
Joined: 8 JUN 2005
Status : Online | Have both and the option to choose, or engineer the controls so that you can switch between modes easily- like with a space bar press or something.
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| 23 OCT 2005 at 2:36am |
jalexSchattenjger
Posts : 2503
Joined: 5 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | I voted anyway but I think this poll is a little too broad.
There are some panoramic screens that work pretty good and a lot that don't
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| 23 OCT 2005 at 7:13am |
| Deleted User | thanks for the explanations, guys. I get it now.
I like still frames better now that I understand what they are.
The trouble with panoramics is that all the details seem to suffer for the sake of being able to pan around. An excellent example is the final age of Myst V, where the graphics are in my opinion subpar and less than the rest of the game (at the cage in the river - the most ugly graphics I've seen in the entire Myst series). Truly ugly graphics. Was that panoramic? I suspect so.
Or maybe it was rush to market tactics, leaving colors uninteresting and everything blocky. The stone boulders had sharp edges and had triangular dimensions. I don't thing that would happen with still frames?
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| 23 OCT 2005 at 9:06am |
| Deleted User | Myst V? That's in 3D, neither panoramic or still 2D frames. Not particularly remarkable 3D either, nicely designed, but a few years behind the rest of the pack.
If you don't think it happens in still frames, look at Rhem. It's all dependent on budget, time and design. Even Riven's showing its age now.
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| 23 OCT 2005 at 12:21pm |
Alan ThornSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 240
Joined: 8 JUN 2005
Status : Online | Better yet, you could have a holographic projection leap from the screen and congeal around you to form a solid environment that you actually explore as though it were real. Books you could actually pickup and read. Tea cups you could actually drink from. People you could really touch
How to do this, though? Well, if you load your development environment, go to the options screen and place a tick in the "Unreaslitic Expectations" checkbox. It should compile fine then
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| 23 OCT 2005 at 1:14pm |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | Don't forget to include "MakePrettyCode.h"!
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| 23 OCT 2005 at 1:39pm |
RecklessJourneyman
Posts : 962
Joined: 14 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By chris156 (22 OCT 2005 1:07pm)
Panoramic scenes let you freely rotate the view through 360*, usually by moving the mouse to the edge of the screen.
Still frames or slideshows only let you rotate in 90* increments, usually by clicking on an arrow cursor at the edge of the screen. Dont these definitions only fit best when concerned with a 1st person perspective game?
3rd person perspective games usually have most locations as static single screens but there are still a lot of locations spread across multiple screens whereby scrolling is automatic once the player moves past a certain point. This is 'panoramic' in a sense that more is shown in the same way as rotating in a 1st person perspective game causes more to be shown.
Personally I not sure the term panaromic is correct given that it is supposed to be a 'wide, all encompassing view' which cannot really be used for something that needs user interaction (movement) to gain it?! In a 3rd person perspective game the term would be probably be something like 'scrollable location'.
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| 23 OCT 2005 at 1:43pm |
Pastor DisasterJourneyman
Posts : 1056
Joined: 14 DEC 2004
Status : Online | I'm definitely a panoramic junkie. When I first got Myst III, I thought I had died and gone to geek heaven. Definitely beat the setup that Physicus had. If you go with still frame action, make sure that at each node the user is allowed to turn in all four directions, even if there is no path there.
Dyslexics wonder why there isn't a word that means the same thing as "cinnamon."
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| 23 OCT 2005 at 3:15pm |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | Ditto, Pastor. My first reaction to Myst III was "Mother of God! This is so freakin' cool!"
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| 23 OCT 2005 at 3:33pm |
Chris.Schattenjger
Posts : 1842
Joined: 8 MAR 2005
Status : Online | I think it's called "parallax scrolling" in third-person games.
...not to be confused with Keira Knightley
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| 23 OCT 2005 at 4:26pm |
| Deleted User | Parallax scrolling is the use of seperate 2D panes in backgrounds to affect depth.
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