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| 3 OCT 2005 at 12:36pm |
jamarchandSchattenjger
Posts : 1665
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SirDave (3 OCT 2005 3:21am)
It would be very interesting to hear not only how they assess the difficulty, but also how they liked it in general.
14 to 19 bucks for a 4-day tour....is a BAD experience and a very bad cost/benefit relation.
I deserves much more for my money.
 &&&&[move]Actually playing SHIVERS and Rhem 2[/move]&&
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| 3 OCT 2005 at 3:53pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By jamarchand (3 OCT 2005 12:36pm)
14 to 19 bucks for a 4-day tour....is a BAD experience and a very bad cost/benefit relation.
I deserves much more for my money.
Perhaps, if someone is a mental giant enough to complete it in 8 hours. It took me around 16-20 hours and although I probably play slower than a lot of people, I'd still guess that it's going to take people at least 12-16 hours to play it. There is a certain amount (and not in any negative sense) of pixel hunting for important objects. To play the game thru in 8 hours would require that one is lucky enough to find every single thing and solve every single puzzle the first time without having to retrace steps. Good for you.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 3 OCT 2005 at 5:12pm |
nytimesguyPrivate Detective
Posts : 684
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By SirDave (1 OCT 2005 4:12pm)
No, it's annoying when a reviewer says a game is one of the easiest ever produced and then says they almost had to look for a cheat.
You're like one of those politicians that grabs a talking point and just keeps repeating it, the way Bush kept saying Kerry would go to the U.N. for permission for his foreign policy decisions. There was nothing contradictory in saying a game is very easy but a couple of times I almost needed to get a hint. i have explained at length why this is not contradictory. It's not a difficult concept, and I don't know if it's difficult for you to understand or if you are puprosely refusing to understand it because you like your talking point and want to keep harping on it. But there's clearly nothing I can say to prove to you that this is not contradictory, and I while have to live with that.
Charles - Game Theorist
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| 3 OCT 2005 at 8:45pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By nytimesguy (3 OCT 2005 5:12pm)
You're like one of those politicians that grabs a talking point and just keeps repeating it, the way Bush kept saying Kerry would go to the U.N. for permission for his foreign policy decisions.
Well, I guess I'm just that kinda guy. On the other hand, maybe it takes two to tango; you didn't have to respond to my posts on the subject at any point, did you?
But there's clearly nothing I can say to prove to you that this is not contradictory, and I will have to live with that.
It's going to be tough, but I know you can do it.....I just know.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 3 OCT 2005 at 9:27pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
I can offer a general example of how an otherwise genuinely easy adventure game might also send many players running for hints or walkthroughs.
It is when a designer throws in a truly illogical puzzle, forgets to include a vital dialog clue, fails to test for unusual player paths or simply adds a ridiculously obscure but vital pixel hunting element without also adding at least some indication it exists.
There are also specific puzzle types that always confound certain players no matter the comparative degree of difficulty. Some people simply have no aptitude for color matching, analyzing geometric shapes or sound recognition. Some are color blind or tone deaf too and that would make certain puzzles virtually impossible for them to solve just as physically impaired people might not be able to handle quick reflexive action segments of any kind.
So there are many reasons why any given player might reach a stumbling block in any given game even if the rest was dead easy for them.
However, unless we know the specific details about that deadend and any personal player factors that might help explain why they reached it in an otherwise easy game, it's impossible to tell whether there is a contradiction in terms or not.
Cheers, Terry
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| 4 OCT 2005 at 7:28am |
trudysgardenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 312
Joined: 19 JUL 2005
Status : Online | I don't mean to interrupt this interesting discussion on what is easy and how a person should define easy and so on and so forth but I just played Resurrection for the first time thanks to this thread and here are my thoughts.
Easy or not easy for the rest of the world population I know that I would have found it easier except for the fact that it was a tad too dark, even with my monitor adjusted. I ended up playing it after dark (with the windows and doors locked and a few extra cloves of garlic in the bin) which was perfect. So richly rendered I was spellbound at times. The puzzles, well, were they puzzles? I think they were logical to the storyline and I was always pretty much aware of my goals. Yeah, I did have to go back over things a few times, the mine cart had me stumped for a while but I kind of laughed at myself afterwards and let's face it the ride was well worth it. I felt rewarded for my hard work. To me this is an important element that many games lack - the reward factor when you solve something.
There were many elements I liked. The inventory - perfect. No nonsense about carrying stuff around that you don't need and will never use. Just the basics, fine by me.
The music and sound effects - very atmospheric - loved that part.
Cut scenes - fabulous, again, great rewards for my effort.
Voice acting - great, no doubt about it.
Difficulty level - I struggled with this after reading all the above comments. It's so subjective. I played this with no walkthrough in about 4 evenings so it took me 15-20 hours. I found nothing illogical in it. I found nothing in it that was outside the storyline (no cookie baking or anything of that nature thank God). I found no puzzles from the Mensa alumni annual or math problems that required using base 8. None of the characters in the game really sent me on a bunch of side quests or tasks. (well, one did but it was critical to the plot) No sliders, no mazes - I guess if you must have those things in a game you might be disappointed or consider the game too easy. I still found it challenging at times, I never really had time to think of it as easy since I was always busily engrossed in the story and focusing on the task at hand. So my final answer to the question...drumroll...
Difficulty level - just right for this particular game in order to maintain the intended pace of the story.
I thoroughly enjoyed this game and I'd like to thank you all. If this discussion had not been raised I wouldn't have bothered to go looking on my shelves for it, dusted it off and finally loaded it up after all this time. And, you know, it's October - the perfect time to play it.
Time to go check the window locks again before bed...
happy trails,
Carolyn
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| 4 OCT 2005 at 3:08pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By trudysgarden (4 OCT 2005 7:27am)
I don't mean to interrupt this interesting discussion on what is easy and how a person should define easy and so on and so forth but I just played Resurrection for the first time thanks to this thread and here are my thoughts.
Carolyn:
Your post alone made my starting this thread worthwhile even if no else ever played the game. Your experience seemed to almost exactly mirror my own. Thanks!
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 6 OCT 2005 at 6:09pm |
jalexSchattenjger
Posts : 2503
Joined: 5 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | I thought it was a ok. I couldn't follow the story too well so I had to get a walkthrough but then it was better. There probably always going to be games that have to be played with walkthoughs as they tend to leave clues out that help in this area.
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| 6 OCT 2005 at 7:47pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By trudysgarden (4 OCT 2005 7:27am)
I thoroughly enjoyed this game and I'd like to thank you all. If this discussion had not been raised I wouldn't have bothered to go looking on my shelves for it, dusted it off and finally loaded it up after all this time. And, you know, it's October - the perfect time to play it.
Time to go check the window locks again before bed...
happy trails,
Carolyn
Glad you enjoyed it Carolyn and yes, this is the perfect time to play it. Since horror and SciFi are the themes I enjoy most in games, this was one of my favs.
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| 7 OCT 2005 at 7:00pm |
mbc841Space Cadet
Posts : 194
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | To me this game would have been near perfect, except for one small thing. I really would have loved if it were slide-show style graphics/interraction. I don't like fixed point cursors. It gives me a headache.
But other than that, LOVED the game!
[url=http://www.justadventure.com/IndependentDevs/TheArrangement/index.htm][[img]http://www.justadventure.com/IndependentDevs/TheArrangement/Graphics/banner1.jpg[/img][/url]
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| 7 OCT 2005 at 8:09pm |
jamarchandSchattenjger
Posts : 1665
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | The "almost" perfect game to me is Traitor's Gate.
I know several people dislike it. But, in my own vision, TG is the most realistic adventure of all times, with hundreds of tasks, with marvelous graphics and 100%logical puzzles and story.
TG is a hard and long challenge. I love those types of games.
All in TG is well done. Every detail, every tool, every documentation, every cutscene.
Challenge, exploration, reallity, history, culture. Simply - GREAT.
&&&&[move]Actually playing SHIVERS and Rhem 2[/move]&&
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| 7 OCT 2005 at 8:13pm |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | After getting arrested for the 100th time without the slightest warning, Traitors Gate becomes a bit tiresome.
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| 8 OCT 2005 at 12:33am |
jalexSchattenjger
Posts : 2503
Joined: 5 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Crapstorm (30 SEP 2005 3:24pm)
Puzzle difficulty is important, but it's not a simple question of easy versus hard. One must also ask what makes the puzzles hard. Is it because they require intense feats of logic and ingenuity? Or is it because they make no frigging sense? Or is it because they require a lot of clerical work, i.e. sifting through reams of paper for itty-bitty clues, or squinting at volumes of scenery for those brilliantly hidden hotspots?
For me, the answer has to be YES for the first question, and definitely NO for the other two. I can enjoy a fairly easy game, so long as it keeps my neurons firing at some level.
I have to argree here too, You did a fine job explaining the puzle probelms. Of course there are many other things to be considered too but this is a major one.
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| 10 OCT 2005 at 4:01pm |
CulturaJourneyman
Posts : 1337
Joined: 1 SEP 2004
Location: NL, Amersfoort
Status : Offline | Thanks for the thread SirDave - it made me buy the game on ebay (less than 5 bucks...) and started playing it today.
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| 10 OCT 2005 at 6:26pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Cultura (10 OCT 2005 4:00pm)
Thanks for the thread SirDave - it made me buy the game on ebay (less than 5 bucks...) and started playing it today.
Let us know how you find it. It's very rewarding to me if these threads result in people finding older games they wouldn't have played otherwise. I must admit that Dracula Resurrection was sitting on my shelf for 2 years- had no clue what a nice game it was- I think the dreary packaging and lack of much in the way of marketing may have had something to do with it.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 11 OCT 2005 at 12:04am |
BazzaLBPrivate Detective
Posts : 512
Joined: 27 AUG 2005
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SirDave (10 OCT 2005 6:26pm)
Let us know how you find it. It's very rewarding to me if these threads result in people finding older games they wouldn't have played otherwise. I must admit that Dracula Resurrection was sitting on my shelf for 2 years- had no clue what a nice game it was- I think the dreary packaging and lack of much in the way of marketing may have had something to do with it.
So what made you buy it in the first place ???
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| 11 OCT 2005 at 1:34am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By BazzaLB (11 OCT 2005 12:04am)
So what made you buy it in the first place ???
The quick answer is: I'm a collector, in addition to being a player. Have played adventure games for several years, but the collecting part started quite innocently 4 years ago- just a few here & there , mainly Myst-like games at first. But once I realized how much I enjoyed many of the games that had been made between 1994 & 1999 and how hard it was becoming to find some of them, I decided to collect everything I could get my hands on so I could look forward to playing them in the future. I'm glad I did because it's getting even harder now to find some of these games when you really want them.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 15 OCT 2005 at 6:57pm |
CulturaJourneyman
Posts : 1337
Joined: 1 SEP 2004
Location: NL, Amersfoort
Status : Offline | Keeping my promise to let you know how I'm faring with this game.
Well, thanks for bringing it to my attention SirDave. This is a wonderful little game. It is atmospheric, has humour, an truly endless amount of beautiful cutscenes, decent puzzles. Good ambiant sounds too.
When you start out in the village, you really are fustrated that you cannot get to the castle right away. It has long been since a game could evoke that sense of emergency. Beautifully done.
I see the point that the characters are a bit like Benoit Sokals. This rings especially true for Sokal's Amerzone - what a great game that was too! The old man at the inn looks very much like Alexander Valembois...
I like the way interaction is done with stills. I suppose it has to do with technical limitations, but it works really well.
I have yet to finish the game - but hey SirDave, that was good advice. Seems we share a taste in games.
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| 15 OCT 2005 at 7:21pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Cultura (15 OCT 2005 6:57pm)
Keeping my promise to let you know how I'm faring with this game.
Well, thanks for bringing it to my attention SirDave. This is a wonderful little game. It is atmospheric, has humour, an truly endless amount of beautiful cutscenes, decent puzzles. Good ambiant sounds too.
When you start out in the village, you really are fustrated that you cannot get to the castle right away. It has long been since a game could evoke that sense of emergency. Beautifully done.
I see the point that the characters are a bit like Benoit Sokals. This rings especially true for Sokal's Amerzone - what a great game that was too! The old man at the inn looks very much like Alexander Valembois...
I like the way interaction is done with stills. I suppose it has to do with technical limitations, but it works really well.
I have yet to finish the game - but hey SirDave, that was good advice. Seems we share a taste in games.
Thanks for the feedback. It adds weight to the title of the thread. My use of the term 'perfect, pure adventure', though a bit of hyperbole, was to indicate a game that would be more likely to satisfy any given adventure game player than a lot of other AGs because it covers so many bases so well.
Here's how this concept of the 'pure' adventure game affects me: Everyone knows I'm primarily a 1st person point & clicker, puzzle-oriented, Myst-like game player. Others hate the Myst-like games and prefer more plot/character-oriented games. But when I played Dracula Resurrection, even though it is certainly not a Myst-like game, I was drawn into playing it all the way through in a week or two and was able to enjoy playing it every night because I wasn't getting hung up on puzzles like I do with the more difficult Myst-like games. I had always wished that there were some games like that, but hadn't really come across any except for maybe games like Syberia or Amerzone. And some games are so easy that you don't really feel challenged.
So, the premise is that these Dracula games plus the bunch that I described as the Wanadoo games are games that have enough going on (plot, characters, graphics, puzzles etc.) to appeal to almost every AG player and are easy enough so you're not having to resort to walkthroughs, but are challenging enough to keep you interested. Thus, my definition of a 'perfect, pure' adventure game.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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