| 14 JAN 2003 at 3:45pm |
sennebecGuild Master
Posts : 3334
Joined: 15 NOV 2004
Location: US, maine
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By monkeybone (14 JAN 2003 3:33pm)
Tell me when it starts getting "good".
i'll be back later today and tell you how i made out... yea or nea...
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 6:17pm |
| Deleted User | Dimi indicates that if I hang in there I will end up loving the game and it's story. He's probably correct. Storyline is far more important to me (generally) than graphics so if the story is great I will learn to love it. But it will be inspite of Gabriel and not because of him.
Harriet@JA
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 6:20pm |
| Deleted User | But surely, Harriet, liking the main character is imperative to making the story worthwhile?
I couldn't watch a film if the lead actor was leaden. Take Arnie movies for example.
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 6:40pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By monkeybone (14 JAN 2003 10:47am)
You should be able to install a game and "get it" from there rather than go a long way round of doing things. It's bad design.
So just because you are too lazy to read provided documentation the game must be bad?
Plus what's the point of a game where the main character is difficult to like?
Because if all games had likeable heroes, the world would be too bloody boring! Or do you prefer Hollywood style cookie-cutter characters and stories?
If this was a novel, it would be left on the shelf! This is my opinion, by the way, you're entitled to like what you like but my mind won't easily be swayed...
Since you haven't played the entire game, I feel entitled to disregard your opinion as unbased in fact
I forgot my sig.
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 6:49pm |
| Deleted User | In general I agree with you about the central character being the all important pivet point of a game. But in my opinion there are exceptions in games and in reality.
I know a number of people who I personnaly don't like as far as their personalities are concerned but who I respect because of what they can accomplish. It's the same with Gabriel but different. Somehow I am able to separate Gabriel, the chauvinist, from Gabriel the detective and from the storyline. Gabriel, acting as a detective and solving a mystery can do a good job and still be the other Gabriel who is a pill.
I don't know if that makes any sense but I seem to be able to firewall my brain that way and it works - at least for Gabriel Knight games. The first GK game was cartoon style and it was fun. Gabriel was a flirt, a chauvinist and a womanizer but he triumphed over the voodoo cult and the story was great. The second game was much better - Gabriel was still a flirt, a womanizer and a bigger chauvinist than ever but he was able to bring the bad guys to justice. The storylines in both games far over shadowed Gabriel - he was the vehicle to get the job done. And the job was the fun part.
My current plan is to play along with GK3 unless I find that I hate the game. And I am going to try to keep the game totally separate from my opinion of Gabriel.
Harriet@JA
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 8:18pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By MichalN (14 JAN 2003 6:39pm)
So just because you are too lazy to read provided documentation the game must be bad?
I'm a freelance artist who works hard for a living. Because I don't read a manual doesn't mean I'm lazy, and besides I read the documentation which didn't say anything about a comic in Acrobat on the disc.
Even so, the comic is badly drawn (some nice panels, though) and laid out.
Because if all games had likeable heroes, the world would be too bloody boring! Or do you prefer Hollywood style cookie-cutter characters and stories?
One of my favourite films is Open Your Eyes, a film where the character isn't particularly likeable and has a plot thicker than an old London pea-souper. However, he was more believeable and likeable than Gabriel, and the plot was much better from the off.
Well-written is probably a better phrase, something that GK is not (so far, at least).
Since you haven't played the entire game, I feel entitled to disregard your opinion as unbased in fact
Then, sir, you are a fool and a brigand. : Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and to be honest even though the vampire plot seems interesting the lack of execution thus far fails to keep me hooked. I'm sorry if you don't like that, but that's the way it is.
(And is there such a word as unbased? I'm not trying to piss you off, I just wanna know)
Would you play a game like (just an example) Black Dhalia all the way through if you didn't enjoy the first hour? No, you wouldn't. Unless you enjoyed wasting time and moaning about it....
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 8:20pm |
MichaelIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 53
Joined: 19 OCT 2002
Status : Online | First off, I think GK3 was one of the last good adventure games to come our way.
Ok, some people just don't seem to understand the point of Gabriel's personality. He is written this way on purpose. He isn't supposed to be a nice, quality guy. He is a conflicted character.
As the Schattenjäger, Gabe is supposed to be pure, holy, brave, generous and kind. It is his job to be the "knight in shining armor". But the beauty of his character is that he is the complete opposite of that. He is rude, selfish, a chauvinist and a womanizer. He is forced to be the hero, when he is everything but a hero. I think this makes the stories SO much more entertaining. It gives them real depth. It is also a lot more realistic. Maybe I am the only one to admit this, but I think I have a lot more in common with Gabriel Knight than I do with any other adventure game hero (with the exception of womanizing). I think a lot of us do. We may not be as blatant about it, but I am sure we have all had selfish Gabriel type thoughts at one time or another. He is very human, which I find refreshing. And, if you can't seem to get to like him even a little, that's where Grace comes in. I honestly think Jane has us play as Grace just to balance the games, so there is a likable, kind character. Grace is probably my favorite adventure game hero. She rocks. And, like Gabe, she is also very human. Who can forget her going all crazy on Gerde in GK2?
Now, onto the graphics. I think they are awesome. The game has a very unique, and in my opinion, amazing, look. BUT, it didn't determine if I loved or hated the game. The story did. Why do people ALWAYS get turned off by games because of the graphics? I said this in another post....aren't we supposed to be the people who care more about the story than the graphics? I have played a lot of action and adventure games this year with amazing graphics. My mouth has literally dropped open at some points. There are some really beautiful games out there. But, do you know what my all-time favorite game of the year was? The King's Quest 2 remake by Tierra. Good graphics should be an added bonus, not the main thing we judge our games by.
"Who the hell were the guys on the train? Is the music really, really good and worth listening to on it's own? (possibly, but not quite)" - monkeybone
It is a mystery game...you aren't supposed to know who the guys on the train are until later on. And you really didn't like the music? You are literally the only person I have ever heard say something slightly negative about GK music.
I could go on for ages about this game, as well as the entire series. But I won't. GK forever!
Mikey
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 9:42pm |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Monkeybone, GK3 has become one of my favorite adventures!
I LOVED the interface!
The graphics are not too exciting, but I didn't see that they are really bad. And the dismember-thing...no! Not on my machine or I am going blind maybe...
You are entitled to your opinion - as rash as it may be - and I won't argue with you on that subject although every word of you did hurt actually.
Not well written?
You have no idea how well written it is, really. It's because you are put off by the beginning of the game. It was the same with me...I didn't know what to do, absolutely no clue. It starts unneccessarily complicated, but let me say one thing: if you don't like GK3 for this very reason, you won't like Runaway.
Because it starts out VERY awkward in terms of puzzles. Needlessly complicated. Did you already play it? If you did then let us know what you think about Runaway.
Gabriel isn't sympathetic?
Synchronization is bad?
I played the German version and all voices are brilliant in this version. Gabriel isn't especially charming and gentle to begin with, but you soon begin to like him. Play GK and you will like him much easier. Keep in mind that I played GK3 first and I had no problems with sympathizing with Gabriel.
I would be curious what you think about Grace. I have to admit I liked her more than Gabriel...naturally.
No kidding now. She's maybe the real star in this game as she solves a very clever puzzle.
Worst for me: You didn't like the interface?
I thought it was the best cross of point & click and 3d environment I've ever seen.
That's my opinion.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 10:02pm |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By monkeybone (14 JAN 2003 8:17pm)
I'm a freelance artist who works hard for a living. Because I don't read a manual doesn't mean I'm lazy, and besides I read the documentation which didn't say anything about a comic in Acrobat on the disc.
Do you have the original "big box" edition? I do and I'm almost sure it had a printed comic book (can't check it now). I agree that the publisher should have made it more obvious that there is an important .pdf file if a booklet wasn't included.
Even so, the comic is badly drawn (some nice panels, though) and laid out.
What does that have to do with its contents? I didn't like it either (visually) but it did deliver the necessary information.
Well-written is probably a better phrase, something that GK is not (so far, at least).
GK as a person or GK as a game?
Then, sir, you are a fool and a brigand. : Everyone is entitled to their opinion
Sure. I just feel that an opinion based on playing the entire game is worth considerably more.
(And is there such a word as unbased? I'm not trying to piss you off, I just wanna know)
Do a Google search on "unbased" and then tell me
Would you play a game like (just an example) Black Dhalia all the way through if you didn't enjoy the first hour? No, you wouldn't. Unless you enjoyed wasting time and moaning about it....
I played Black Dahlia until the end and I didn't think it was a bad game...
Anyway I tend to not pass judgement on games that I haven't finished (and I usually finish everything) but that's probably just me.
I forgot my sig.
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 10:50pm |
sennebecGuild Master
Posts : 3334
Joined: 15 NOV 2004
Location: US, maine
Status : Offline | hey monkeybone...
it's growin' on me...
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 10:55pm |
| Deleted User | MichalN -I have respect for you to sticking to your guns. To answer some "questions" (although, theoretically, you didn't ask any) -
1) I do like the music! I wasn't being sarcastic! It kinda reminded me of The Mothman Prophecies. I like the ethereal nature, but it's a little bit elevator.
2) I have the plastic DVD "Best Seller" series version. Sums it up, really - minimal info.
3) I've been playing this for 2 hours now (not overall) and I still don't get it. And I'm stuck for what to do - it hasn't given me a clue as to what I'm supposed to be doing!
4) Gabriel is totally alien and unconvincing to me. I don't think I'll ever like him. Sorry!
5) I'm a designer, and being a visual person graphics are important for me. That's not to say I have any imagination (just finished reading The Baron In The Trees by Calvino), it's just I'm pretty sensitive. Plus harsh colours give me a migraine.
5) Harriet - it's an odd way of thinking, that's for sure. I understood though. Unfortunately, for me Gabriel is PART of the game, and to get into a story you have to care for the character. I just can't.
To use a slightly more extreme example - f you were playing Jack The Ripper in a game could you empathise with him and his actions? To a much lesser (much) I can't get on with this character.
It obviously looks like you have to play the series to truly understand whats going on. I have no idea what a Schatendoodie is, or what he does. For such a long running series and big-budgeted title, it doesn't help if a new player can't come to it fresh.
Overall, though, due to the positive nature of 90% of the posts I'm slightly more convinced I may be missing something. I'll keep truckin' for a while and see what happens.
Still think the character is poor though...
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 11:32pm |
JoGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Location: AU, Qld.
Status : Offline | Oh gee, we certainly all like different things in a game!
Personally although Gabriels character is rather on the obnoxious side, to me that makes him all the more realistic.
Gabriel certainly didn't appear in "separate parts on my machine Harriet.
Have to agree the graphics weren't good, at the time I thought it was just my machine, however that didn't detract from the story which was excellent.
I loved it, then replayed GK2 again and thought that was better, then played GK3 again and thought this time that was better etc. etc. etc. then after that managed to get a copy of GK1, but didn't like that as much as the other two. However, I thought Tim Curry's voice acting was better in GK1 than GK3 (although I preferred Dean Erickson probably because I'd had GK2 first of all and was used to him)
Yeah Grace is definitely the best character in the two latter games, she really didn't have much to do in the first one, and that Le Serpent Rouge puzzle was fascinating - probably went a long way to making the game so popular (well, with people who loved the whole series anyway).
All I can say is "viva la difference" and thank God we DO all like different things.
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| 14 JAN 2003 at 11:35pm |
mszvPrivate Detective
Posts : 751
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Monkeybone, as I said before, I never really wanted to play the GK3, because I didn't like how it looked. I never played GK1 and 2 either. On this board and another board, I've read how great the series is, story wise. So I have the games, but I can't bring myself to play them yet. Let me know if you can get into GK3, and then I'll see if I can give it a try. I guess I could start with GK2, assuming it will run on my Win XP machines.
How a game looks is really important to me. That doesn't mean I don't like some games that look kind of goofy (Full Moon in San Francisco comes to mine), but all in all, the better a game looks to me, the more willing I am to play it. I'm a graphic adventure person.
Regards, mszv
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| 15 JAN 2003 at 12:28am |
MichaelIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 53
Joined: 19 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By monkeybone (14 JAN 2003 10:55pm)
1) I do like the music! I wasn't being sarcastic! It kinda reminded me of The Mothman Prophecies. I like the ethereal nature, but it's a little bit elevator.
Yes, I would agree with you. Aside from the introduction, the music early on in GK3 is very elevator-ish. Trust me, it gets much, MUCH better as the game goes on. Out of all three games though, the music in GK2 is the best. I am still amazed at that opera....
My advice: Wait until Grace comes into the picture. I am sure you will love her, and she may make the game more enjoyable. Also, either before or after you finish GK3, get your hands on the first two.
-Mike
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| 15 JAN 2003 at 12:35am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By monkeybone (14 JAN 2003 10:55pm)
I do like the music! I wasn't being sarcastic! It kinda reminded me of The Mothman Prophecies. I like the ethereal nature, but it's a little bit elevator.
I absolutely love the GK series music. If the composer is half as good as his work, I'm not in the least surprised that Jane Jensen married him
3) I've been playing this for 2 hours now (not overall) and I still don't get it. And I'm stuck for what to do - it hasn't given me a clue as to what I'm supposed to be doing!
At the beginning you simply have to explore. Look around, talk to everyone, pick up everything that's not nailed down. Like others said - it's supposed to be mysterious.
4) Gabriel is totally alien and unconvincing to me. I don't think I'll ever like him. Sorry!
I don't like Gabriel either - but that didn't stop me from loving the game. Does that make sense?
To use a slightly more extreme example - if you were playing Jack The Ripper in a game could you empathise with him and his actions?
I never tried it, so I don't know. It would depend on how the game was written.
I forgot my sig.
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