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| 15 AUG 2005 at 12:02am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | What you are describing already exists. It's called "console games".
What you are proposing is something that game publishers might like. If well executed, it would give them total control and eliminate compatibility problems.
However, in reality this is totally unworkable. Without going into technical details, there are some major problems on the business side:
1) This is not something Microsoft would like, as it would marginalize Windows. Microsoft will not stand for anything like that as they are critically dependent on the Windows franchise. Games are a major reason (if not "the" major reason) why many people choose Windows instead of e.g. Mac OS or Linux.
2) Hardware vendors will not go along with this. They are already unhappy that they have to provide drivers for Windows at their own expense. They will not voluntarily provide drivers for any other environment unless either doing so brings in additional revenue or not doing so will cause loss of revenue.
3) Most game developers are in no position to write, let alone support an operating system. They have hard enough time getting their games more or less working. A major publisher like EA could perhaps pull this off, but they'd have to be convinced that it would give them a significant competitive advantage.
One technical question: I'm not clear on how you envision the encryption to work. If the CD can be read on a standard CD-ROM, it can also be copied with standard equipment. The copy process has no need to "understand" the data.
The only potential advantage I can imagine is "security by obscurity" where cracking a game would be more difficult because the tools to do so are nonexistent or difficult to obtain. However, custom made (as opposed to off-the-shelf) OS is also much more expensive to develop and maintain, probably negating any potential gains.
I forgot my sig.
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| 15 AUG 2005 at 2:06am |
JA_StiCIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 54
Joined: 22 MAY 2005
Status : Online | Originally Posted By MichalN (15 AUG 2005 12:01am)
What you are describing already exists. It's called "console games".
EXACTLY!!
Thats the kind of experience I'm looking for. Just pop in your game and play. A clean boot. No more turning off your anti-virus and other TSR programs. No more scan disk or defrag for that clean install.
but...
There are two major drawbacks on console systems.
First
Controls. Nothing controls like a mouse, keyboard and a good joystick. I hate playing a FPSs with those little analog sticks and RTS or Adventure games play much better with a mouse.
Second
Hardware. You have to wait 4 or 5 years for the next generation of consoles but you can completely rebuild a PC every 18 months or so. As the hardware improves newer versions of the OS ship on the install/boot Discs with new games, just boot from the newest CD and you're up to date.
Originally Posted By MichalN (15 AUG 2005 12:01am)
A major publisher like EA could perhaps pull this off, but they'd have to be convinced that it would give them a significant competitive advantage.
I had EA in mind when I started this thread. It's obvious that each developer would use a different OS. EA games would only run in the EAOS, just like XBOX games only run on an XBOX.
Originally Posted By MichalN (15 AUG 2005 12:01am)
One technical question: I'm not clear on how you envision the encryption to work. If the CD can be read on a standard CD-ROM, it can also be copied with standard equipment. The copy process has no need to "understand" the data.
BAD example. You're right.
I guess what I mean is that to play the game the OS needs to verify the disc using some sort of physical signature. To play a copied game you would have to crack the OS. Since the the OS is designed only to play games, and is alien to everyone except the people who developed it would be dificult to crack and/or patch. As each new OS version is released subtle changes could render previous
cracks useless. Also remember this OS boots from a CD.
Thanks for indulging in my little fantasy
Regards
S
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| 15 AUG 2005 at 2:26am |
trudysgardenSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 312
Joined: 19 JUL 2005
Status : Online | Michael, I was just going to write the same thing when I scrolled down a little and saw your reply.
How about a console that plays all the games - sort of a generic. I don't play console games so I'm just grabbing at straws here. I WOULD play console games if something like that was readily available.
Thinking back I bought my first Atari PC to play games on, then discovered that more games were available for the C64 and Apples that were out. Jeez what a serious outlay of cash that was for such a small return.
happy trails,
Carolyn
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| 15 AUG 2005 at 3:27am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By trudysgarden (15 AUG 2005 2:25am)
Michael, I was just going to write the same thing when I scrolled down a little and saw your reply.
Great minds think alike. Or so they say
How about a console that plays all the games - sort of a generic. I don't play console games so I'm just grabbing at straws here. I WOULD play console games if something like that was readily available.
Not possible, unfortunately. Technically, it would be rather difficult. From a business perspective, it's a non-starter. Console manufacturers have vested interest in exclusive titles and so on, so they wouldn't support this idea. Moreover, because the console hardware is heavily subsidized, I can't imagine who would subsidize such "generic" console. If it wasn't subsidized, and actually had to be profitable on its own, it'd cost several times as much as today's consoles, making it unfeasible.
The only somewhat viable alternative might be emulators running on PCs. Such things already exist, for older generation of consoles.
I forgot my sig.
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| 15 AUG 2005 at 3:44am |
MichalNGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7058
Joined: 14 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By JA_StiC (15 AUG 2005 2:06am)
Thats the kind of experience I'm looking for. Just pop in your game and play. A clean boot. No more turning off your anti-virus and other TSR programs. No more scan disk or defrag for that clean install.
Mind you, I think what you suggest would be great. I just don't think it is possible.
Controls. Nothing controls like a mouse, keyboard and a good joystick. I hate playing a FPSs with those little analog sticks and RTS or Adventure games play much better with a mouse.
That is true.
Hardware. You have to wait 4 or 5 years for the next generation of consoles but you can completely rebuild a PC every 18 months or so. As the hardware improves newer versions of the OS ship on the install/boot Discs with new games, just boot from the newest CD and you're up to date.
But, this is precisely the problem. PC games are sometimes a pain exactly because they need to run on such a wide variety of hardware. If you want to "lock down" the game to a CD with its own OS and drivers, how will it run on next gen hardware?
Note: I write device drivers for a living so I have some vague idea what I'm talking about. What you want isn't technically impossible. The thing about technology is that in 95% cases, the question isn't "can this be done" but rather "how much will it cost". In this particular case, the answer is almost certainly "too much". Or rather, there is no single entity that would benefit enough to foot the bill. This would require a high degree of cooperation between software and hardware manufacturers, which is extremely unlikely to happen. PC hardware is far too fragmented. After IBM faded away as a force to be reckoned with in the PC arena, the only major player who emerged since then is Microsoft; I have explained why such self-contained game platform is the last thing Microsoft would want. The only company that might possibly support this is Intel, and in fact for them it might make good sense to do so. I'm not sure Intel has enough influence to pull this off though.
I forgot my sig.
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| 15 AUG 2005 at 3:56am |
JA_StiCIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 54
Joined: 22 MAY 2005
Status : Online | Originally Posted By trudysgarden (15 AUG 2005 2:25am)
How about a console that plays all the games - sort of a generic.
Sounds great, but how about this.
A console that hooks up like a PC SVGA display, mouse, keyboard, ect.
Not exactly my all in one fantasy above but a decent substitute.
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| 15 AUG 2005 at 4:15am |
JA_StiCIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 54
Joined: 22 MAY 2005
Status : Online | Originally Posted By MichalN (15 AUG 2005 3:43am)
If you want to "lock down" the game to a CD with its own OS and drivers, how will it run on next gen hardware?
I didn't say that each game would be locked to it's own install/boot disc. What I said was that newer games would contain newer OS versions to include new hardware. These new OS versions would of course be backwards compatible with older games.
Regards
S
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| 24 AUG 2005 at 9:26pm |
NavarosIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 25
Joined: 17 OCT 2004
Status : Online | this is actually a great idea
however i doubt M$ would ever allow such a thing to occur in reality :
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| 11 OCT 2005 at 5:53pm |
JoYSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 208
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Does the term FLOPPER means anything to you?
http://www.oldskool.org/pc/flopper
It was very much like you discribe, games came on an bootable floppy and you could just run the game straight out of the box.
So basically it's an old idea, but not a bad one
If it works in todays world I don't think so, not on PC anyway, too much difference in hardware configurations would make it allmost impossible to make the game work on each PC I guess. Unless you could somehow use DirectX?
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| 16 OCT 2005 at 6:38pm |
| Deleted User | It's impossible!
Consider that a game can only support the hardware that is already out when the game is published. Also the game would need drivers for ALL available hardware that is out there! Chipsets, Network drivers (still Internet would only be possible via router), graphics and sound drivers, controller drivers for all mice, keyboards and gamepads and so on.
Else there is a PC that works similar... it's called X-Box...
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