| 7 JUN 2005 at 11:59am |
CrapstormJourneyman
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Status : Online | [Cue "Cheers" theme song]
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| 7 JUN 2005 at 2:02pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
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Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By Expat (7 JUN 2005 9:21am)
I think this thread has gone totally off-topic. We were originally discussing the released Myst V in-game videos and how it looks a lot like Uru, and that for some of us that wasn’t necessarily a good thing because Uru did not feel like a Myst game. Uru being in 3-D probably contributed to that but not entirely, because for example, RealMyst had felt like a Myst game. To me, all this D’ni crap feels contrived.
On the other hand, I think it’s time a new thread for 3-D AGs is started.
As for me, I totally don’t care if my AGs are in 2-D or 3-D as long as they are good. By good I mean challenging but not impossible or illogical puzzles, an addictive game-play and an immersive game-world. GK 3 was in 3-D and I completely enjoyed that game. But I didn’t think the 3-D did it any good. If it were in 2-D I believe I would have enjoyed the game even more as it was set in an old French town and would have been a good opportunity for lots of nice eye-candy. The freedom of movement was there, albeit not absolute, but I don’t think this contributed much to the game-play. I agree that there will come a day when an AG will use 3-D as part of its game-play and start a small revolution. That would be neat. But I don’t think that will be the death of 2-D games, either. Besides, considering now that console games (all in 3-D) cost 10-15 mio $ these days, I don’t think a pure adventure game will find funding. Maybe in the future if 3-D development cheapens AG can follow and then there will be other technologies that people would wish AGs would be using. Maybe Holo-games or something.
AG designers embracing 3D technology and the overwhelming industrywide trend away from 2D has everything to do with this topic. Right or wrong, good or bad, those are the reasons that Myst V will use this new technology and it automatically opens the door to further discussion of future applications by a variety of AG designers, including the obvious stumbling blocks they will face.
I agree though that while URU was supposed to be a whole new thing, a departure that was supposed to lead to all sorts of exciting new possibilities, it should not necessarily influence the design decisions for Myst V. The latter series is the foundation of the franchise and its longtime fans deserve a proper ending that respects the traditions on which it was based.
Cheers, Terry
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| 7 JUN 2005 at 4:10pm |
ExpatIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 19
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Terry_Penrod (7 JUN 2005 2:02pm)
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AG designers embracing 3D technology and the overwhelming industrywide trend away from 2D has everything to do with this topic. Right or wrong, good or bad, those are the reasons that Myst V will use this new technology and it automatically opens the door to further discussion of future applications by a variety of AG designers, including the obvious stumbling blocks they will face.
I agree though that while URU was supposed to be a whole new thing, a departure that was supposed to lead to all sorts of exciting new possibilities, it should not necessarily influence the design decisions for Myst V. The latter series is the foundation of the franchise and its longtime fans deserve a proper ending that respects the traditions on which it was based.
Cheers, Terry
I don't agree that these are the reasons why Myst V will be in 3D. Cyan had moved to 3D a long time ago and as they had announced, they made a decision to make all their games in 3D from then on. That's the technology they invested in. Factor in the high probability that they had already designed a lot of D'ni ages for Uru they never used, and voila, when Cyan makes Myst V they make it 3D and it looks a lot like Uru. Simple.
However, as Myst IV has proven, you DON'T have to make a Myst game in 3D for it to be beautiful and captivating and almost alive. Myst IV was not made a decade ago, it was finished only last year, ergo, it not being in 3D was a DESIGN DECISION and NOT because somehow Ubisoft missed "the overwhelming industrywide trend away from 2D" as you put it. I believe the budget may not have allowed 3D anyway, but Myst IV was decided to be 2D from the beginning and I don't think anybody even questioned that. It was a given.
I'm glad we agree that Myst V did not need to be in 3D and that it should have followed the (proven) look and feel of the previous titles in the franchise to form a coherent ending. That's all. I don't think anybody here is opposed to 3D. Hey, if it will provide (as it certainly has the capacity to) better, more immmersive adventure gaming experiences, we're all for it. The on-topic point is, and you agree, that Myst V looked like Uru from what we've seen so far, and some of us Myst fans do not like that! Ubisoft should've given the development of Myst V to the Myst IV team or others who would stay true to the look and feel of the series and not play with it. But, to be fair, I will give Cyan the benefit of the doubt and hope that they will come up with something even better than all the previous Myst games. One can only hope.
..and I hope Rand Miller is reading this!
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| 7 JUN 2005 at 4:40pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Expat (7 JUN 2005 4:10pm)
I'm glad we agree that Myst V did not need to be in 3D and that it should have followed the (proven) look and feel of the previous titles in the franchise to form a coherent ending. That's all. I don't think anybody here is opposed to 3D.
This is true. Personally I'm not opposed to the use of 3D in many games such as Dreamfall (though I still don't consider it necessarily beneficial), but Myst is a different case. To me, photo-realistic backgrounds and FMV characters are a hugely important part of the Myst experience, and one of the reasons I could never get into Uru is because it just didn't have the Myst 'feel' for me.
I'm crossing my fingers that Myst V will still be a reasonably good game, but the 3D and avatars mean that I'll never really be able to lose myself in it the way I did with the other Myst games. Some people complained that using pre-rendered graphics for Myst IV was a 'step backwards' after Uru; well, as far as I'm concerned, Myst V's bog-standard 3D graphics are a big step backwards from the beautiful ALIVE engine used in Revelation. I know that it's really no use complaining, as the decision has already been made, but as this is the last game in the series I can't help feeling more than a little annoyed and disappointed.
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| 7 JUN 2005 at 5:26pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
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Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By Expat (7 JUN 2005 4:10pm)
I don't agree that these are the reasons why Myst V will be in 3D. Cyan had moved to 3D a long time ago and as they had announced, they made a decision to make all their games in 3D from then on. That's the technology they invested in. Factor in the high probability that they had already designed a lot of D'ni ages for Uru they never used, and voila, when Cyan makes Myst V they make it 3D and it looks a lot like Uru. Simple.
However, as Myst IV has proven, you DON'T have to make a Myst game in 3D for it to be beautiful and captivating and almost alive. Myst IV was not made a decade ago, it was finished only last year, ergo, it not being in 3D was a DESIGN DECISION and NOT because somehow Ubisoft missed "the overwhelming industrywide trend away from 2D" as you put it. I believe the budget may not have allowed 3D anyway, but Myst IV was decided to be 2D from the beginning and I don't think anybody even questioned that. It was a given.
I'm glad we agree that Myst V did not need to be in 3D and that it should have followed the (proven) look and feel of the previous titles in the franchise to form a coherent ending. That's all. I don't think anybody here is opposed to 3D. Hey, if it will provide (as it certainly has the capacity to) better, more immmersive adventure gaming experiences, we're all for it. The on-topic point is, and you agree, that Myst V looked like Uru from what we've seen so far, and some of us Myst fans do not like that! Ubisoft should've given the development of Myst V to the Myst IV team or others who would stay true to the look and feel of the series and not play with it. But, to be fair, I will give Cyan the benefit of the doubt and hope that they will come up with something even better than all the previous Myst games. One can only hope.
..and I hope Rand Miller is reading this!
Beats me how you can disagree that the developers of Myst V: End of Ages are now fully embracing 3D technology, as that is exactly what they are in the process of doing.
Regarding Ubisoft's influence over past projects in the series, even though it was just released for the PC in September of last year, the initial dev cycle for Myst IV: Revelation was started a long time ago. The decision by Ubisoft Montreal Studios' Patrick Fortier to maintain a consistent look was evidently not part of the transition (or actually predceeded it) and it most definitely bucked the overriding industry trend I referred to.
Obviously, now that Cyan is back in charge of the creative process for the franchise, they have decided to go another way. Whether that decision was also influenced to a degree by their previous experience with URU and/or Ubisoft's current tendancy to publish 3D titles is really beside the point. They are following a 3D path and that will impact the final game in the series. More on point, apparently both Rand Miller / Cyan and Ubisoft are in total agreement with this decision and I doubt they have any intention of going back to 2D technology for new projects in the future.
Cheers, Terry
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| 7 JUN 2005 at 6:00pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
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Status : Offline | The Cyan transition of the Myst series to 3-D was not done well which is surprising because 3-D engines have been around for quite awhile. Perhaps it has to do with the fact that they were trying to provide both a 1st person & 3rd person option and maybe it also had something to do with the perceived requirements for the original online URU. In any event, it's a clunky 3-D interface compared to Quake, Doom3 and similiar 3-D games. So I s'pose one can say they are fully embracing 3-D, but they're not doing it well and that is a big turn-off for those of us who lament the apparent end to the Myst series as we know it.
FWIW- it also appears to me that the decision to continue the same 3-D implementation in Myst V as was in URU has to do with what others have mentioned: the need to use left over material from online URU. However, I remain thankful that Myst IV retained the old design.
On another note, I'm perplexed with Cyan's apparent plan to end the Myst series. As far as I can tell, it still makes money. I would like to believe that they will be ready to let another company continue making Myst games just as Presto did with Myst III. There are all sorts of possibilities-like Atrus had an illegitimate child, Sushi, who he was ashamed of, so he created a linking book to another world, Scampi, where he created 3 ages, Scallops, Caviar, and Prawns, for her to play in.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 7 JUN 2005 at 10:20pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
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Status : Offline | .
Gamespy's recent interview with Rand Miller about the upcoming Myst V: End of Ages (see link below) covers the areas of 3D graphics and improvements to the control scheme especially for traditional AG fans.
According to Rand, there will be an option to simply point and click on the screen instead of using the regular FPS type mouse + keyboard controls for movement. He also explained that they used special motion capture equipment this time to make the 3D character models (particularly the close-up facials) a lot more realistic and believable. They also have put forth a specifal effort to make the visual backgrounds and game world details more photorealistic.
http://pc.gamespy.com/pc/myst-v-end-of-ages/620685p1.html
Lastly, Miller talked about a new, more forgiving approach to accessing most areas in the gameworld/s, wherein players would be allowed a lot more access in general instead of blocking them altogether from new areas by placing rigid puzzle restrictions on them. This he elaborated would hopefully entice more players to get involved with the story and the puzzles by exploring more freely.
So while I sympathize with people who lament this change in the series, Cyan is doing everything possible to maintain a sense of continuity while still embracing the newer technology and trying to appeal to a bigger audience.
Cheers, Terry
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| 7 JUN 2005 at 11:33pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
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Location: AU
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SirDave (7 JUN 2005 6:00pm)
There are all sorts of possibilities-like Atrus had an illegitimate child, Sushi, who he was ashamed of, so he created a linking book to another world, Scampi, where he created 3 ages, Scallops, Caviar, and Prawns, for her to play in.
[smiley=rofl.gif] [smiley=rofl.gif] [smiley=rofl.gif]
Well, I've had my abdominal work-out for the morning..... [smiley=rofl.gif] [smiley=rofl.gif] [smiley=rofl.gif]
Tell me again why you're not a writer Dave.....
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 2:14am |
Trep_HomoludensIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 47
Joined: 15 SEP 2004
Status : Online | So, why IS Myst the most successful adventure game series of all time?
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 2:22am |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | Trep,
That was a flagrant attempt to keep an old argument going - and you know it.
Anyway, you're most welcome here - just wondering what causes you to wander over here from AG? Surely it can't be our most recent export, the inimitable, the one and only, squarejawhero?
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 3:05am |
Trep_HomoludensIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 47
Joined: 15 SEP 2004
Status : Online | Actually, I keep tabs on what goes on in a lot of communities. This is more from a personal interest in keeping on the pulse of games culture in relation to its place in larger cultures, popular and otherwise.
My main home is Adventure Gamers, yes. Unfortunately I'm unable to spread my residence over more communities - the more you spread yourself the more thin you get. And squarejaw is a wonderful contributor there, highly intelligent and informed and assertive. Like me, he's caused a bit of controversy himself. We get along well, heh heh.
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 3:37am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Trep_Homoludens (8 JUN 2005 2:14am)
So, why IS Myst the most successful adventure game series of all time?
It was on the tip of my tongue; it was right there; hold it a minute, I know why.......justasec, I'll hop over to AdventureGamers and check out all the Myst threads there for the answer......
(And welcome here also TH (or IH as the case may be), especially since I've been horning in over there lately )
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 4:42am |
Orange_BratIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 81
Joined: 4 APR 2004
Status : Online | "the overwhelming industrywide trend away from 2D"
Trend?
[url=http://www.thedisenfranchised.com/]The Disenfranchised™[/url] - coming later
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 5:05am |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
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Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By Orange_Brat (8 JUN 2005 4:42am)
Trend?
What would you call it when virtually every major interactive game genre (with one glaring exception) for the PC, Mac and all video console systems moves from strictly 2D to 2D + 3D to full 3D in the course of one decade?
Since Doom widely introduced and popularized graphic acceleration in 1993 for DOS and then for Windows in 1995, 3D has revolutionized the entire game industry from end-to-end. The one exception has been the PC AG category that has mostly stood still in terms of new technology. But as we are now seeing, that genre too is slowly but surely following the same trend and I for one am excited about the possibilites.
Cheers, Terry
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 7:24am |
phankiejankieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 69
Joined: 2 JUN 2005
Status : Online | 3D is a standard now and surely no trend. The only fortress that has to fall is AG. Which I believe eventually will fall.
I wouldn't like 2D to die completely in adventures though. A Vampire Story seems to have great 2D so does Runaway 2.
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 8:19am |
ExpatIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 19
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Terry_Penrod (7 JUN 2005 5:26pm)
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Beats me how you can disagree that the developers of Myst V: End of Ages are now fully embracing 3D technology, as that is exactly what they are in the process of doing.
Terry, I don't understand what beat you but I'll say it in other words to make it more plain:
- I disagree that Myst V will be in 3D just because 2D is dead and 3D is inevitable.
- I believe that Myst V will be in 3D because the developers Cyan only make games in 3D (or, as you seem to prefer, they are "now fully embracing 3D technology".
- I think that another developer could have made Myst V in 2D sticking with the tradition of the franchise and fans would still buy it, love it and never complain it wasn't in 3D.
I hope it is clear to you now.
Don't get me wrong but I'm just curious about something: Why are you so militant about 3D? Are you a 3D programmer? Do you own large amounts of ATI stock? Do you work for Cyan? (hey, just kidding!) But, seriously, has anyone here said that 3D cannot be the future of AGs? I don't remember reading such a thing. All future AG games can be in 3D for all I care. I don't think anybody has a problem with that. Some of us only dared to express the opinion that we would have liked our Myst V in 2D. Why do you seem to have such a hard time with that statement?
Peace.
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 8:35am |
phankiejankieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 69
Joined: 2 JUN 2005
Status : Online | Expat: I truly do not think Terry is referring strictly to Myst when he talks about 3D. I am on his side though and I believe in 3D too. But that doesn't mean that we should rule out all 2D development.
As for Myst V we should wait and see what the game will play like. I am a 3D fan but URU was a pain... Not because of 3D though. It was the weird control system that messed the whole experience.
Nevertheless I am quite enthusiastic about Cyan embracing fully 3D, maybe others will follow too now.
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 9:42am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Terry_Penrod (7 JUN 2005 5:26pm)
Beats me how you can disagree that the developers of Myst V: End of Ages are now fully embracing 3D technology...
"Now" is a funny word here.
"Now" apparently lasts longer than 8 years.
Even while Cyan was still working on Riven, Rand Miller decided Cyan's next game would be in real time 3D. The game that eventually became Uru was code named DIRT, which stood for D'Ni In Real Time. Later they changed the name to Mudpie and finally Uru. Check out the "Making of" section of the game guide for Uru Chronicles.
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 4:06pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
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Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By Expat (8 JUN 2005 8:18am)
Terry, I don't understand what beat you but I'll say it in other words to make it more plain:
- I disagree that Myst V will be in 3D just because 2D is dead and 3D is inevitable.
- I believe that Myst V will be in 3D because the developers Cyan only make games in 3D (or, as you seem to prefer, they are "now fully embracing 3D technology".
- I think that another developer could have made Myst V in 2D sticking with the tradition of the franchise and fans would still buy it, love it and never complain it wasn't in 3D.
I hope it is clear to you now.
Don't get me wrong but I'm just curious about something: Why are you so militant about 3D? Are you a 3D programmer? Do you own large amounts of ATI stock? Do you work for Cyan? (hey, just kidding!) But, seriously, has anyone here said that 3D cannot be the future of AGs? I don't remember reading such a thing. All future AG games can be in 3D for all I care. I don't think anybody has a problem with that. Some of us only dared to express the opinion that we would have liked our Myst V in 2D. Why do you seem to have such a hard time with that statement?
Peace.
You seem to have misinterpreted my meaning Expat.
I never inferred that this move by Cyan was either sudden or solely as the result of following a trend. I also never indicated a personal preference that it be in either 2D or 3D. But like many AG studios, Cyan has been slowly evolving from 2D to 2D + 3D to full 3D all along at their own pace. Now, that path will result in a full 3D Myst V, which the publisher Ubisoft also supports - as they did with URU.
A sweeping industry trend like this takes time to develop and take hold. It is done in phases during which most games in most genres are behind the hardware tech curve by several years. So software develpers are constantly experimenting with new possibilities in several areas. PC AG designers are simply the last to catch-up as a group.
As far as being "militant" about the issue, nothing could be further from the truth and I consider that to be a rather childish insult on your part. And please give me a break with that "all we have done is state an opinion" crap. Many people on this forum consistently bemoan the move from 2D to 3D in an almost freakishly shrill voice. It has even become something of an ongoing theme here in similar "complaint threads" about Dreamfall and other new AGs that propose using 3D. Conversely, all I have done is to state the plain truth about the tech path the overall game industry has followed in recent years and to support forward thinking AG designers who are currently testing the 3D waters. Unlike the constant complainers, I do not prejudge the efforts of these developers - before having seen the final product.
In the meantime, I have continued to enjoy 2D AGs like TLJ, Syberia 1 & 2 and Runaway immensely. I also play numerous recent isometric, third person RPGs and Action-RPGs like Divine Divinity, Beyond Divinity and Sacred. So I have no problem with 2D as a format. However, RPGs are also moving into full 3D with games like Dungeon Siege, Morrowind, Neverwinter Nights and KOTOR. The upcoming ES4: Oblivion and Fallout 3 will set even higher standards and I can see many more to follow in that and all other genres.
In the end, I am not the one who is standing up for or against any given format. They're all fine with me. But the trend away from 2D is practically universal at this point and fighting it seems like a pretty silly quest to me.
Cheers, Terry
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 6:06pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Terry_Penrod (8 JUN 2005 4:06pm)
. As far as being "militant" about the issue, nothing could be further from the truth and I consider that to be a rather childish insult on your part. And please give me a break with that "all we have done is state an opinion" crap. Many people on this forum consistently bemoan the move from 2D to 3D in an almost freakishly shrill voice. It has even become something of an ongoing theme here in similar "complaint threads" about Dreamfall and other new AGs that propose using 3D. Conversely, all I have done is to state the plain truth about the tech path the overall game industry has followed in recent years and to support forward thinking AG designers who are currently testing the 3D waters. Unlike the constant complainers, I do not prejudge the efforts of these developers - before having seen the final product.
Ah, the old 'you can't express an opinion about the game before it comes out' argument. Funny how the people who scream 'OMG COOLEST GAME EVAR!' after seeing two or three screenshots of a newly announced game (and yes, I have seen this on numerous occasions recently) never seem to be attacked for it. Quite apart from the hypocrisy, it's a ridiculous argument anyway - what are preview materials such as screenshots for, if not to give you an idea of what the final product will be like? And if the screenshots, previews etc. that I've seen so far happen to give me a negative impression of the game rather than a positive one, why the hell shouldn't I say so?
In any case, making this argument where Myst V is concerned is missing the point. For some of us, the use of photorealistic backgrounds and FMV characters in the Myst games is a hugely important part of the overall atmosphere - and therefore, the graphics used in Myst V are automatically inferior as far as we're concerned. It doesn't matter how wonderful the game is in other respects; it's still going to badly damage our sense of immersion. Same with action sequences: for those of us who don't like any action in adventure games, even 'well-integrated' action is guaranteed to be an annoyance.
The Dreamfall debate, if you look carefully, is actually more about the use of action than 3D. The two arguments tend to get confused, partly because a switch to real-time graphics is so often used as an excuse to include more action (as in this case). And there are always the people who deliberately try to confuse the two, in order to paint those of us who object to action as being automatically anti-3D as well. Some people are, but many of us here are simply a) rather more skeptical about the benefits of 3D and b) worried about the tendency for 3D graphics to be accompanied by wider use of action sequences.
As for the trend in AGs being towards greater use of 3D, I certainly agree. That doesn't mean I agree that it's necessarily a good thing, and it's not going to stop me complaining about it in the cases where I think it's a bad thing. I further disagree that the switch to 3D is 'inevitable'; it's only inevitable if it turns out that 3D adventures actually sell more - which, so far, has not been the case.
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 6:07pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | There seems to be a perspective problem with the way this subject is being discussed ie. there seems to be a polarization with the issue.
As I've said before, I don't have a problem with the premise of 3-D AGs so much as I'm afraid that it will become something that is perceived as mandatory in order to compete on the part of developers. So, for instance, take Strecko that made Aura. I am assuming that the sequel will use a similiar 2D+ format (I hope so). I want to see games like that continue to be made. Likewise, I don't want small developers of 2D AGs driven out because they feel they need to provide a 3-D game ie. 3-D engines are expensive to license & time-consuming & difficult to develop from the ground up.
One other example of my concerns. Schizm I&II were IMO great AGs (especially Schizm I). I was able to play them on a regular, mildly-powered laptop and take it wherever I wanted. Now out comes Detalion's Sentinel which, again, is a very good game, but now due to the hardware demands the new 3-D engine uses, not only can I not use it on a regular laptop, it has to be one of the higher-end ones that has T&L graphics capability. In fact, that's not even available on some more limited desktop systems.
Finally, I'm not so sure that the trend to 3-D in most other game genres applies totally to adventure games. The original Myst formula is almost part of a desired AG format. This isn't like Doom, or any other FPS for that matter, whose original 2-D (pseudo-3D) graphics cried out for 3-D. And, I might add, I'm not a big believer that introducing 3-D into AGs is going to bring in a bigger audience than was there before. In fact, the reverse could even happen.
So while I'm not against 3-D in AGs per se, I won't get warm fuzzies about it if it means that, in the future, we only have even fewer AGs than we do now because they will all have to be 3-D or nothing.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 9:34pm |
ExpatIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 19
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Oh, dear! What have I gotten myself into discussing computer games. GAMES!!! Sheesh!
Terry, I'm sorry you consider my tongue-in-cheek, good-humored comment on your "militant" defense of 3D in AGs as a "childish insult". If you think what I said is "crap", well, that's OK. It's your opinion. I can live with that.
It is my personal opinion that I like the 2D style in Myst games. I love it. I think it's perfect. That doesn't mean that I'm fighting 3D. Cyan or some other developer may well make the next big adventure game in 3D that will dominate the genre for the next 10 years. For the sake of the genre, I hope they can. I'm just afraid that if an Uru-clone Myst V comes out and it feels odd for the fans, then this great legend of a franchise may go away not with a bang but with a whimper. Yet, I hope it will be wonderful. I really do.
Ksandra and SirDave: I could sign my name under all you have said. My feelings exactly. No need to repeat what you have finely elaborated.
Peace.
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 11:07pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | SirDave has just highlighted a problem that could well militate against developers who only produce 3D games ~ old hardware.
When you compare Aura and Sentinel (games I enjoyed) it's hard to quantify the extra enjoyment the 3D engine brought to the game, especially if it means people have to upgrade to play it.
They can still create wonderful games in 2D. I did like the 3D effects in Sentinel, the sense of wandering off the path, etc, but it wouldn't have been missed it it hadn't been there.
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| 8 JUN 2005 at 11:43pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
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Hey people, wasn't my last post clear enough when I specifically listed a number of recent 2D AGs and RPGs that I found immensely enjoyable, stated that I had no problem with 2D at all, and reiterated that I never indicated any preference for 2D or for 3D that this argument you are having is NOT with me?
But whiney complaint threads like this and the one titled "reamfall - the game is gonna suck" are getting downright silly. The sole purpose of posting such topics is to moan and cry about a trend that has been in motion and growing to global proportions for over a decade now. Action-Adventures in full 3D are commonplace for the PC and all console systems. They also sell like hotcakes and traditional AGs designers / publishers are presently trying to adapt to a marketplace that is frankly leaving them behind.
The makers of BS3 and now both Dreamfall and Myst V have made their decisions and no amount of complaining is going to change that fact. They have realized that unless they make some major changes and start appealing to a bigger audience, their genre will in effect cease to exist. As a result, some are now beginning to delve into full 3D and adding some optional action elements. I honestly cannot blame them can you?
But as I also pointed out, this trend will take some more time before all the transitional bugs are worked out (including artistic stylization, control issues, balance of gameplay and other factors). In the meantime 2D AGs for the PC will continue to be produced and even better systems with better 3D cards will be offered for even less money. In another five years or so the cheapest PC on the discount store shelves will easily play Doom 3 in high res with full effects and you can bet it will breeze through any 3D AG currently in the works.
What may also help ease the burden on consumers is the advent of MediaCenter PCs that are set-up for a wide variety of very advanced multi-media applications. If these succeed in the market, they too will drop significantly in price to the point that anybody can afford one.
During that same five-year period, many AG developers will become adept at working with full 3D technology and the cost of using slightly older 3D engines / toolsets will not be such a big financial stumbling block. So dev costs for the game makers and the cost of keeping up with hardware for AG fans may take care of themselves.
BTW, there is a big difference between stating that you would prefer 2D and declaring that a 3D game (with or without optional action elements) is "gonna suck" long before a playable demo is even available. There is also a big difference between declaring that an all-new 3D title will be stupendous before any evaluation can be made and commenting on an exisitng 3D franchise that has announced a set of specific new tech advances to be implemented in the next game. One is pure speculation and hype. The other is educated speculation based on experience.
Cheers, Terry
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