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| 5 MAY 2005 at 10:14pm |
| Deleted User | Okay, almost the same title, but with few alterations, I had to, in order for me to attract your attraction (JUST KIDDING):
Is it just me, or are old, classical "quests" (Adventure Games) making a comeback in Israel?
Now, I know most of you aren't from Israel, but it still might be of interest to you (so just listen, please!)
I used to think I was the only one in the whole country
who played adventure games (by the way, here, in Israel, AGs are actually called "quests", LOL!).
Of course I knew I was wrong, but I did knew for sure that there are very few who are my age. Over the years, as you all know, adventures were in the decline, and almost abolished commercailly. Now that "almost" in Israel, (as compared to the rest of the world, especially the USA), actually means: completely, utterly, irreversibly. Sigh...
So those who used to play them as children, have grown up, and closeted their true personality of gamers (not to say gaymers ). But that's their problem, giving to social conformation and classfications.
Anyway, I was really lonely in this peculiar habit of playing old, outdated, ugly, boring, useless, you name it adventures, at least up until now.
Recently, in an abrupt wave of surprise, as if from no-where, an abundance of Israeli questers was revealed to me! More than fourty at least (Yes, that's a lot). Even people I never dreamed will play adventures, all the more so classical ones, are starting to blab names like "Guybrush Threepwood", "Gabriel Knight", "Tex Murphy", "Grim Fandango (Manny)" "Sierra", "Lucasarts", etc...
I was seriuosly shocked, and in a way agitated. I was irritated by the fact that I'm not special in my own enviornment now, and that other people share my hobbies (well, that's another story now).
But just a thought - If in Israel it happened, how about the rest of the world? What's going on there? (Comercially, I know a lot less better than other genres, but personally?), are more people attracted to AG than before (latest years)?
And if so - What about the big names? How are we going to make them hear the subjects' cries?!
BTW - It seems to me that in Israel comic adventures of Lucasarts and Revolution and many good others are more popular than Sierra's and others' less-wacky adventures.
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| 6 MAY 2005 at 12:03am |
MikekellyPrivate Detective
Posts : 612
Joined: 25 JUN 2004
Status : Offline |
Now that I'm playing Still Life - I'd have to say yes !!!!!!!!!!
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| 6 MAY 2005 at 12:20am |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | Sadly, it's just you.
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| 6 MAY 2005 at 1:55am |
ElfstoneGuild Master
Posts : 5892
Joined: 4 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Did you people even read what she wrote? :
I don't notice anything like that, but then, I never talk about adventure games outside of this place. I don't talk about games in general.
[b]playing[/b]: Destination Treasure Island (done in two sittings, but it's nice), Syberia (ho-hum), Dracula: Last Sanctuary (on hold)&&[b]reading[/b]: even more study papers&&[b]listening to[/b]: [url=http://www.last.fm/user/Brax82/]this and that[/url], plus [url=http://www.musicovery.com/]Musicovery[/url]&&[b]TV favorites[/b]: (currently) Pushing Daisies, Chuck, Journeyman (cancelled! grrr...), Heroes&& all-time) 24, Stargate SG1, X-Files, Lost, House
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| 6 MAY 2005 at 2:38am |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
I can't speak for people who have recently discovered the joys of classic AGs in Israel but there is a cool trend here in the USA involving older men and woman with little or no previous PC experience playing them. I have seen it happen a number of times in my own family and amongst older friends.
The explosion of PCs and the web in general over the past decade and many grandparents now getting up to speed on the technology has combined with the enthusiasm of their own young grandchildren who grew up with games. At first they play The Sims, Rollercoaster Tycoon or a similar title during quality time together. But then something strange seems to happen with at least a percentage of the older generation. They start to enjoy the gameplay and they learn to be quite comfortable using a PC as an entertainment device. Some of them then go looking for something a little more suitable for their level of maturity and personal tastes and guess what? They often find a number of very familiar game titles in the AG genre that dovetail nicely with their established preferences in books, films, etc. It's even better that these titles usually run well on modest systems and require no special skills. They also do not rely on super fast web connections and they can be played at a nice leisurely pace with unlimited save games.
It's too bad though that so many older AG classics have become hard to find and even harder to get working under WinXP. If they were easier to buy and play, IMO even more older people would be grabbing them up these days.
Cheers, Terry
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| 6 MAY 2005 at 6:34am |
Steve IncePrivate Detective
Posts : 571
Joined: 7 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | It's a real shame that publishers and retailers don't realise that games have a long shelf life - and not just adventure games. This is why the budget labels are doing so well.
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| 6 MAY 2005 at 7:03am |
| Deleted User | Why would you want to wait years to recoupe your costs? You need funds in order to produce your next "title". Whether you're a publisher or self funded developer, I dont think long shelf life helps unless the number of sales remain consistently high.
I suppose they could invest in eBay to make their money back too
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| 6 MAY 2005 at 7:24am |
Steve IncePrivate Detective
Posts : 571
Joined: 7 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | It's not necessarily an "either... or..." situation. Yes, a publisher needs to recoup their outlay as soon as possible and a developer needs sales to encourage the publisher to fund the next project, but by recognising that there is a potential long-term investment as well should not go unrecognised.
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| 6 MAY 2005 at 5:18pm |
jalexSchattenjger
Posts : 2503
Joined: 5 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | All very good points here. I have seen many older people here in my area get into AG's too. Most of them havn't had a computer too long. They all like games that are easy to install and run on low end systems. They don't like keyboard controls or other things that make the games harder for them to play. What most of them are looking for is games like the old Sierra games with new stories and a little better graphics that will run on Xp withput problems. I have talked to many of these people and they all agree that they like to relax behind there new computer and NOT make a job out of it. They all enjoy watching the story play out and like the feeling of acually taking part in the game. I think that when you look at the whole world this group of people adds up to a pretty big number of people now days. I agree with these people, interactive stories and puzzles and a few other things are what adventure games do best.
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| 6 MAY 2005 at 10:24pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Not to belabor a point but in the past ten years of participating in PC game forums big and small, I have only met a handful of older people who really got into fast action games of any kind. They just are not geared for them. The artisitic and musical styling is all wrong for their personal tastes, the themes are childish for people over 60 or 70+ in most cases and the average player online is younger than their youngest grandchild - not to mention less well behaved. The games are also marketed to a very young demographic via media channels that simply don't reach many older people by design.
On the far end of this topic is another odd human observation about the currently dominant interface used in PC AGs - the mouse. It is a very very frustrating device for anyone with even a hint of essential tremor (ET) to the hands. For example, my own mother who is still a flawless and blazingly fast typist has long suffered from a mild case. But it makes precise mouse control movements extremely difficult for her and is the single biggest reason that she has shunned most PC functions to this day.
You see, her high tech experience simply did not begin until after the advent of the GUI, the web and mouse-driven controls that dominate most all PC apps these days. To her, any and all mouse applications are a real pain in the butt and she knows that she can never fully master them. So she is limited to a very narrow set of uses that rely solely (or as close as possible to it) on the keyboard only. That's because it is much more forgiving in terms on tiny tremors of the hands / fingertips and she is already intimately familiar with it as a primary interface.
Stranger yet is that my youngest nephew who still lives right next door to my mother has had some limited luck getting her to play a few console games that require zero mouse controls and have a simple button pushing gamepad interface. Of course most of his games are not geared for a well educated, older woman with mature tastes, so that has only gone so far. But we are trying to get her to experiment with a short list of PC titles that have keyboard or gamepad controls as well as mature non-violent themes that might appeal to her. But just the act of installing and running a simple PC puzzle game on a newer system usually requires some mouse control and she absolutely hates it.
Cheers, Terry
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| 7 MAY 2005 at 6:09pm |
MikekellyPrivate Detective
Posts : 612
Joined: 25 JUN 2004
Status : Offline |
I have been playing AG's for thirty years now.
I can't buy and play all the AG's being released today.
There are just too many. There are excellent ones that I knew I'd like I didn't buy.
Why?
No time to play all of them.
This was not true thirty years ago, or twenty years ago or even ten years ago.
But it is true now.
The quality of the average AG has improved over thirty years and I enjoy them more now than I did in the beginning too.
This genre will always be around - but will also always be changing and growing too.
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| 7 MAY 2005 at 6:57pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Terry,
Has your mother tried out any mouse alternative devices?
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| 7 MAY 2005 at 10:22pm |
jujigatameSchattenjger
Posts : 1976
Joined: 14 FEB 2003
Status : Online | The quality of the average AG has improved over thirty years and I enjoy them more now than I did in the beginning too.
You have gotta be kidding me. In techology, of course, but in terms of artistry and overall quality, you're telling me that adventures are stronger today than ever? You can't expect me to swallow that tripe.
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| 8 MAY 2005 at 12:04am |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Mikekelly (7 MAY 2005 6:09pm)
I have been playing AG's for thirty years now.
I can't buy and play all the AG's being released today.
There are just too many. There are excellent ones that I knew I'd like I didn't buy.
Why?
No time to play all of them.
Thios was not true thirty years ago, or twenty years ago or even ten years ago.
But it is true now.
The quality of the average AG has improved over thirty years and I enjoy them more now than I did in the beginning too.
This genre will always be around - but will also always be changing and growing too.
Wake up!!, Wake up!!!, your dreaming again!!!!
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| 8 MAY 2005 at 9:47pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By Jenny100 (7 MAY 2005 6:57pm)
Terry,
Has your mother tried out any mouse alternative devices?
Thanks for asking Jenny and yes, my brother and I tried to get her to use a trackball thinking it might be more stable / easier to control and less prone to "squirrelness". But she didn't "like" it either. (I suspect she is also just plain hesitant or even a little confused about the whole high tech PC thing and doesn't want to admit it). We also got her a good voice to text app that she does like but it doesn't help with playing games and many AG titles (that I think she might enjoy) simply do not support or are not designed for a gamepad.
I guess it's really not a big deal because she already has plenty of friends and close family members nearby as well as pets, hobbies, a garden, the beach, books, films, music and other things she enjoys at home. So it's not like there is some huge void in her life that games would fill. It would be nice to be able to help introduce her to some of the better graphical AGs though.
Cheers, Terry
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| 8 MAY 2005 at 10:04pm |
| Deleted User | This is a little offtopic, but Terry's story about his mother happened to trigger this memory.
When I was a kid of 16 (early 1981) I used to play on the computer all the time (TRS80 days). I was studying computing at the time and started my degree the very next year. For many years my mum would complain that I'm on the thing far too much etc etc etc.
A couple of years ago I gave my mum a PC and she got interested in Geneology. Now she surfs the net and 'plays' on her computer daily. I ended up telling her I think she is on her computer far too much
Ironically, she lives in the hills but was able to get a nice broadband connection about 12 months before I could and I live in an outer suburb of Melbourne!
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| 8 MAY 2005 at 10:08pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | What about something like a touchpad or Wacom tablet?
http://www.wacom.com/graphire/index.cfm
Or something with a joystick like this
http://www.aroga.com/com_access/com_products_detail.asp?Item%20ID=963
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| 8 MAY 2005 at 11:01pm |
MikekellyPrivate Detective
Posts : 612
Joined: 25 JUN 2004
Status : Offline |
You have gotta be kidding me. In techology, of course, but in terms of artistry and overall quality, you're telling me that adventures are stronger today than ever? You can't expect me to swallow that tripe.
I'm playing "Still Life" right now and I think it's grand.
-- Really, Really good.
10 years ago I was playing "ark Seed" - which was pretty good.
BUT - I think "Still Life" is far better.
The bottom line is - "Return to Mysterious Island" looks great - but I don't have the time to play it.
Once I finish "Still Life" other games need to be played - like "reamfall" for example.
I do understand that there are those who don't like the games being released today and think that 20 years ago better games were made.
But I love "Still Life" just as much today as I loved "Indy and Atlantis" when it was released.
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| 8 MAY 2005 at 11:11pm |
ThanandaJourneyman
Posts : 1168
Joined: 8 OCT 2003
Status : Online | Ok, have no time at all, but HAVE to coment.
First, Ana, where did you found 40 young people, who play adventure in Israel? I know a couple, but they closer to 40 in age, rather than their number! I'd really like to know. because I've been looking for an adventure themed bord in Hebrew for some time now.
Second, I know, there are a few people, who still remember what "JucasArts" is, but they don't play ads. anymore... *sigh*
Thus, I don't think there is a revival of adventures in Israel. To prove that, you can enter any big computer chain store and ask for, say, Runaway or Aura. The astonished faces of the sellers will be the best demonstration.
Oh, just for laughs, I entered 'Bug' some time ago and asked them, if they have any new adventure games. A very content "game lover" took me to the shelf and showed me a copy of Syberia (the first one!) for 300 nis. BTW, that was the only thing they had in stock.
I didn't know, whether to laugh or cry...
Do go on! I always yawn, when I'm fascinated!
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| 8 MAY 2005 at 11:17pm |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5538
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | $68 US for the original Syberia? That's crazy anyway you look at it! That's not typical of Israeli software prices, is it?
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| 8 MAY 2005 at 11:23pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By Jenny100 (8 MAY 2005 10:08pm)
What about something like a touchpad or Wacom tablet?
http://www.wacom.com/graphire/index.cfm
Or something with a joystick like this
http://www.aroga.com/com_access/com_products_detail.asp?Item%20ID=963
Much thanks for the links Jenny.
I'm familiar with all the Wacom pads as we use them at the art studio / office I am still connected to through a limited partnership and with an affiliated ad agency I have another ongoing association with. But I don't think it is the answer for my mother's shakey hands as a replacement for the mouse and it of course would not be suitable for games. (At least I don't know of any games that support digital sketch pads / pens. Are there any?)
On the other hand, that Aroga pad with the little built-in joystick does have all the basic mouse control features in a more stable button-pushing design. I especially like the fact that you can move the mouse cursor directly left / right and up / down to target specific points on the screen with a more precise control system. That would eliminate the squirrelly nature of a mouse.
You see, she even has a hard time with the mouse sensitivity / speed turned way down. While clicking is not a problem once the cursor is exactly where she wants it to be, just sliding the mouse precisely left or right to highlight / select an isolated section of text drives her nuts. This pad might solve that problem and I will defenitely suggest it to my brother who lives a few miles away from her in Florida.
My nephew and his mom also live immediately next door and they help her access e-mail, etc. all the time. He is also starting to play some more adult-oriented games on the PC. And being very bright, he likes complex CRPGs that have good stories, some strategy elements and a few puzzles to solve, plus he has always loved story-driven action adventures on the consoles. His mother is also very good on the PC. So maybe they can form a team to introduce my mom to some good, mouse-driven AGs, puzzles or even sims using a solid pad to move the cursor and to click. Will let you know if they have any luck and thanks again.
Cheers, Terry
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| 8 MAY 2005 at 11:42pm |
Chris.Schattenjger
Posts : 1842
Joined: 8 MAR 2005
Status : Online | What about using MouseKeys in Windows' Accessibility Options?
...not to be confused with Keira Knightley
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| 8 MAY 2005 at 11:48pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By Mikekelly (8 MAY 2005 11:01pm)
...
I do understand that there are those who don't like the games being released today and think that 20 years ago better games were made.
But I love "Still Life" just as much today as I loved "Indy and Atlantis" when it was released.
In the past seven or eight years I have loved several newer PC AGs like Blade Runner, Twinsen's Odyssey (a.k.a. The Little Big Adventure 2 or Relentless 2), Grim Fandango, Sanitarium, The Journeyman Project 3: Legacy of Time and Escape From Monkey Island (yes I am one of the few that still loved it despite the shortcomings), as well as Gabriel Knight 3, The Longest Journey and Syberia 1 & 2. In the same time period a rung below those great titles but still quite enjoyable for me were Nightlong: Union City Conspiracy, Black Dahlia, The Blackstone Chronicles, Omikron: The Nomad Soul (a 3D hybrid but still very much an adventure), Dracula: Resurrection, Runaway: A Road Adventure, Dark Fall 1 & 2 and Broken Sword: The Sleeping Dragon to name but a few. Plus there are several good new AGs I have yet to play like Return to Mysterious Island, The Moment of Silence and Still Life with Dreamfall and several others coming soon. If I also liked Myst clones as much as some of the other forum members here that list would be at least twice as long if not longer.
So while the PC AG genre has most definitely shrunk in popularity in the last ten years, it still consistently produces some superb new titles and I too like many of them every bit as much as the older classics.
Cheers, Terry
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| 9 MAY 2005 at 12:09am |
ThanandaJourneyman
Posts : 1168
Joined: 8 OCT 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Andromus (8 MAY 2005 11:17pm)
$68 US for the original Syberia? That's crazy anyway you look at it! That's not typical of Israeli software prices, is it?
Um.. yes it is, unfortunately. The prices run between 250- 300 nis (you do the math, I'm too sleepy to search for the rate right now ). I remember buying GK3 for 200 nis back in 2000 and TLJ for 230. [smiley=shudder.gif].
God bless those Russian softwere sites, that ship all over Europe for the fraction of the cost (30 nis for Post Mortem)!
Do go on! I always yawn, when I'm fascinated!
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| 9 MAY 2005 at 10:38am |
MorgausePrivate Detective
Posts : 687
Joined: 2 SEP 2004
Status : Online | The average price of a game in retail in France is between 44.95 euros and 49.95 euros, so between 60 and 65 dollars (with 1 dollar equal to 0.781 euros).
Expensive, pretty much like movies, music or books: books are about twice as expensive in France as they are in the US, simply because a single US book is often split into two or even three parts. Add to that the strong euro, and importing books from the US becomes a bargain... especially as a site like Amazon delivers them free of charge. Shipping overseas is usually quite the killer: indie adventure games sold in the US can have a shipping cost as high as the sell price. And for one reason or another, I would much rather give all the money to the developers of the game, instead of filling the pockets of UPS/FedEx and their ilk.
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