| 21 MAR 2005 at 8:48pm |
SusanGuild Master
Posts : 5485
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: 0
Status : Offline | I don't know if there's a list somewhere that has all the games, but we can make a comprehensive list ...
Games with copy protection:
- The Black Mirror
- Broken Sword 3
Games without copy protection (that can be fully installed to the hard drive)
- Both Dark Fall games
- Syberia 2
Myst 4 has copy protection that could interfere w/ installing the game, but it can be fully installed to the hard drive. All 8GB of it.
And technically Black Mirror and BS3 install to the hard drive, but b/c of Starforce, you still need the CD to start it up.
I miss my Bubba: 1986 - 2006.
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| 21 MAR 2005 at 10:18pm |
Joe_MolotovSpace Cadet
Posts : 153
Joined: 4 OCT 2003
Status : Online | Syberia 2 has that stupid protection scheme that keeps you from playing it if you have certain programs installed (or if it just decides it doesn't like you). There are always cracks though. Even if you're not a pirate, they can still be useful.
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| 21 MAR 2005 at 11:04pm |
kuddlesPrivate Detective
Posts : 702
Joined: 22 OCT 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Joe_Molotov (21 MAR 2005 10:18pm)
Syberia 2 has that stupid protection scheme that keeps you from playing it if you have certain programs installed (or if it just decides it doesn't like you). There are always cracks though. Even if you're not a pirate, they can still be useful.
I always download a crack before playing a new game. It just makes everything so much easier. Kind of sad and ironic, actually, that those who illegally download games have less hassle when playing them than someone who actually pays for it.
[size=10][b]Games:[/b] Europa Universalis III&&[b]Music:[/b] [i]Awoo[/i] - Hidden Cameras&&[b]Series:[/b] Dexter (S1)&&[b]Movies:[/b] The Prestige (8/10) Little Miss Sunshine (5/10)&&[/size]
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| 21 MAR 2005 at 11:06pm |
RobDSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 382
Joined: 30 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Aura isn't protected but I don't remember if it installed completely to the hard drive.
I used Virtualdrive which worked very well.
Sentinel, I believe (haven't played yet) isn't protected and probably installs completely
to the hard drive like Mysterious Journey 2 did. Maybe someone else can confirm.
Return to Mysterious Island isn't protected and can be installed completely to the hard drive
and no cd needs to be in the drive to play.
I've never had a problem with a game complaining about having Virtualdrive installed
like others have. I guess I'm just lucky.
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| 22 MAR 2005 at 12:14am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | The TAC version of Moment of Silence on CD will install fully to the hard drive and has no copy "protection."
The DVD versions of Moment of Silence use StarForce.
Curse: The Eye of Isis uses StarForce
American McGee's Scrapland uses StarForce
Traitors Gate 2 uses StarForce
Black Mirror used an early version of StarForce (the one that caused problems with USB drives, up to and including destroying the formatting on the drive)
The US version of Broken Sword 3 uses StarForce
I've heard the German version of Syberia 2 used StarForce, but I think the US version used Safedisk.
Still Life may or may not include StarForce when it comes out. The demo had StarForce, but that may be because the demo was distributed worldwide and they intend to use StarForce on it in some parts of the world. TAC seems to have quit using it after the problems some of their customers had with Black Mirror and BS3.
At least some versions of Runaway use StarForce. I don't remember the one I have asking for a code, but apparently there are "keyless" versions of StarForce.
Usually I visit a couple of crack sites to find out what copy "protection" a game uses. That seems to be the only way to find the information.
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| 22 MAR 2005 at 2:40am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | One way around the main Starforce problem is to set a Restore point before installating a game like Black Mirror-play the game, then restore to the Restore point. This might not remove part of Starforce that is written to disk, but should remove all effects of Starforce as far as the Registry is concerned which is the area where remnants of copy-protection can cause most problems.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 22 MAR 2005 at 4:28am |
AvakaJourneyman
Posts : 1437
Joined: 17 SEP 2003
Status : Online | SirDave,
I'm sorry to say but you lost me on that ''Restore'' point.
And I also have no idea what crack sites are, what crack is or what they are good for.
BaWaaah! :'( [smiley=shrug.gif]
Myst IV - Never finished it. Got frustrated with it.&&Myst V - Did not finish it either. Very disappointing.&&ATTWN - BORING!!! Never finished it. Kept falling asleep.&&Paradise - So far .... not so good&&Voyage - Not on my favorite list
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| 22 MAR 2005 at 4:30am |
AvakaJourneyman
Posts : 1437
Joined: 17 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Sentinel and Return to Mysterious Island are both full install.
Myst IV - Never finished it. Got frustrated with it.&&Myst V - Did not finish it either. Very disappointing.&&ATTWN - BORING!!! Never finished it. Kept falling asleep.&&Paradise - So far .... not so good&&Voyage - Not on my favorite list
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| 22 MAR 2005 at 6:08am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Avaka (22 MAR 2005 4:28am)
SirDave,
I'm sorry to say but you lost me on that ''Restore'' point.
And I also have no idea what crack sites are, what crack is or what they are good for.
BaWaaah! :'( [smiley=shrug.gif]
Hi Avaka: WinXP has a System Restore utility that can roll back your system to any date for which you set a Restore point, so you start up System Restore before you install a game like Black Mirror and set a Restore point, then when you're done playing the game (to the finish), you can restore your computer to that prior date which essentially removes any copy-protection that was installed with the game. There may still be something remaining on the hard disk but it shouldn't have any further effect on the computer or software.
I used this technique with Black Mirror and never had any subsequent sign of Starforce's presence and that was over a year ago.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 22 MAR 2005 at 6:43am |
AvakaJourneyman
Posts : 1437
Joined: 17 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Hi SirDave,
Oooh, I like that. didn't know that could be done.
Thank you! [smiley=love.gif]
The things one can learn around here!
Now, what about this crack thingy?
No comments from the peanut gallery [smiley=indie.gif]
Myst IV - Never finished it. Got frustrated with it.&&Myst V - Did not finish it either. Very disappointing.&&ATTWN - BORING!!! Never finished it. Kept falling asleep.&&Paradise - So far .... not so good&&Voyage - Not on my favorite list
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| 22 MAR 2005 at 7:10am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Cracks are small files (usually small) that allow you to bypass the copy "protection" on games. People use them to bypass problems caused by copy "protection" - everything from the game not starting at all (which can happen even with legitimately purchased games) to people wanting to skip the CD check and speed up the loading process (CD checks can take over a minute on some computers, though 20 seconds is more typical) to getting rid of performance issues caused by the copy "protection" (as with those that check the CD drive every 30 seconds, causing the game to slow down).
Cracks can also be used for pirate versions of games, so I don't think JA+ allows people to post links to sites that offer cracks on this forum.
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| 22 MAR 2005 at 1:58pm |
kuddlesPrivate Detective
Posts : 702
Joined: 22 OCT 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Jenny100 (22 MAR 2005 7:10am)
Cracks can also be used for pirate versions of games, so I don't think JA+ allows people to post links to sites that offer cracks on this forum.
Naturally, it's really popular with pirate copies, but why should the thieves be the only ones not worried about copy protection?
If you want to find one, Avaka, just google the game name along with the words "no cd crack".
I've heard that cracks in and of themselves are not illegal, because they don't actually alter the software, just the security procedure, and it's perfectly plausible to be using one with a legal copy. That may just be a misconception I have, but I have never heard of the game industry going after a "game crack" site before.
[size=10][b]Games:[/b] Europa Universalis III&&[b]Music:[/b] [i]Awoo[/i] - Hidden Cameras&&[b]Series:[/b] Dexter (S1)&&[b]Movies:[/b] The Prestige (8/10) Little Miss Sunshine (5/10)&&[/size]
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| 22 MAR 2005 at 4:44pm |
SusanGuild Master
Posts : 5485
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Questions about System Restore:
- If you go back to previous restore point, does it also get rid of any files you may have saved to your computer after that restore point? Or does it just undo any program installations and registry changes?
- Is there a way to get rid of unneeded restore points? I know I've read you can turn it off to save hard drive space. My computer creates a restore point everyday and that did come in very handy a couple of times, but obviously I don't need all these restore points for other days if time has passed and I haven't had any problems.
I miss my Bubba: 1986 - 2006.
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| 22 MAR 2005 at 10:35pm |
krkdnosePrivate Detective
Posts : 707
Joined: 9 JUN 2004
Status : Online | Here's a decent article about System Restore that explains quite a bit.
Personally, I don't use it at all and find it to be a waste of space. But I do regularly back up my entire system partition using drive imaging software (Acronis True Image). Others find the System Restore feature very useful, however.
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| 23 MAR 2005 at 12:03am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By krkdnose (22 MAR 2005 10:34pm)
Here's a decent article about System Restore that explains quite a bit.
Personally, I don't use it at all and find it to be a waste of space. But I do regularly back up my entire system partition using drive imaging software (Acronis True Image). Others find the System Restore feature very useful, however.
I'm a strong believer in setting a Restore point before any installation of software. Not only does it allow you to prevent the accumulation of flotsam & jetsam in your Registry if you decide to remove a program you just installed, but also allows you to get back to where you were if there is a problem with the installation.
However I also keep regular backups with both Drive Image (now Norton Ghost) & Acronis True Image and use them for total system failures/problems.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 23 MAR 2005 at 1:34am |
RecklessJourneyman
Posts : 962
Joined: 14 NOV 2002
Status : Online | System Restore is a load of old tos. The one time I needed it... it said it couldn't restore it. It's now turned off!
Copy protections schemes are [mostly] applied by a publisher not the developer. There lies an issue - you haven't said where in the world you are or get your games from! Certainly the UK seems to love Starforce equipped titles of late (not just adventures). AFAIK this is the *only* copy protection scheme not possible to be removed with a 'simple' crack (typically a replacement executable/DLL). Starforce protection can be overcome but it usually involves a lot more hassle.
Personally I think all protection schemes are evil (as I DO purchase games and some methods (Safedisc especially) have given me lots of unwanted and unecessary hassle.
[url=http://leisuresuitlarry.dyndns.org/]Leisure Suit Larry Archive Site[/url]&&[url=http://www.adamhearn.co.uk]Hearn Garage[/url]
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| 23 MAR 2005 at 2:05am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | I'm sorry, but those who think that System Restore is useless, simply don't understand what it's for and how it works. Here's a longer explanation with the history:
A major difference between Windows 3.1 and Windows 95 was that, for the first time, virtually every important bit of info about an installed program was placed in a single database file called the Registry. In addition, information about hardware & drivers were stored in that same file. The Registry, therefore, is the very backbone of the operating system.
Every time you install a program, information about that program is added to the Registry and everytime you de-install the program, the information is theoretically removed. However, in actuality, often some residual crap is left in the Registry. Now, if you install a program and find that it is causing major problems or if you just don't like it, if you simply de-install it, 2 things can happen: at worst, the things that caused problems will not be totally reversed, at least, crap will be left behind in the Registry. The problem with residual flotsam and jetsam is that the Registry gets bloated and eventually you system may slow down over time or other problems, often nebulous, can develop.
System Restore works in a very simple way: if you use it after having installed a program, it simply returns you to an earlier version of the Registry, removes any icons and removes the active forms of the program (ie. EXE programs). It does not remove data files or other static files that have no effect on the system. Occasionally, it cannot Restore, but that is usually the users fault- a Restore point wasn't set or not enough space was allocated for use by System Restore, or the person tried to Restore after a Restore after a Restore etc.
System Restore is not some half-baked utility. There were always programs available that did much the same thing that you could use with Win95 and Win98, but they were more difficult to use such that most people didn't bother. If you don't use System Restore, you are removing one of the easiest, most effective protections from some of the day-to-day problems people can get into with WinXP.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 23 MAR 2005 at 3:52am |
AvakaJourneyman
Posts : 1437
Joined: 17 SEP 2003
Status : Online | SirDave,
That was a work of art, a thing of beauty!
Thank you, again.
Myst IV - Never finished it. Got frustrated with it.&&Myst V - Did not finish it either. Very disappointing.&&ATTWN - BORING!!! Never finished it. Kept falling asleep.&&Paradise - So far .... not so good&&Voyage - Not on my favorite list
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| 23 MAR 2005 at 4:11am |
krkdnosePrivate Detective
Posts : 707
Joined: 9 JUN 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By SirDave (23 MAR 2005 2:05am)
I'm sorry, but those who think that System Restore is useless, simply don't understand what it's for and how it works.
I know exactly what it's for and exactly how it works. And I still find it to be useless. For me, that is.
I am constantly changing things on my computer. Installing things, uninstalling things, upgrading things. If I have to restore my system to a previous state, I want it COMPLETELY restored to that previous state. I don't want a bunch of junk left on the hard drive.
You go on a lot about registry accumulation, but System Restore is only an answer to registry bloat if you use it in the following manner:
1) Install program
2) Don't install anything else on your system
3) Use program
4) Finish with program
5) Uninstall program
6) Restore previous state
In other words, not really an answer at all unless you uninstall it right after installing it. What if I want to get rid of a program (and it's registry entries), but I've installed several other things since then? I lose all those programs when I restore and have to install them again. Just to (maybe) get rid of some registry entries? There are plenty of programs available to deal with registry problems. And some of them even work.
I agree that System Restore can be really useful, especially for people with limited knowledge of computers. For some of us it is indeed useless and that certainly doesn't make us ignorant.
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| 23 MAR 2005 at 5:37am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By krkdnose (23 MAR 2005 4:10am)
I know exactly what it's for and exactly how it works. And I still find it to be useless. For me, that is.
I am constantly changing things on my computer. Installing things, uninstalling things, upgrading things. If I have to restore my system to a previous state, I want it COMPLETELY restored to that previous state. I don't want a bunch of junk left on the hard drive.
You go on a lot about registry accumulation, but System Restore is only an answer to registry bloat if you use it in the following manner:
1) Install program
2) Don't install anything else on your system
3) Use program
4) Finish with program
5) Uninstall program
6) Restore previous state
In other words, not really an answer at all unless you uninstall it right after installing it. What if I want to get rid of a program (and it's registry entries), but I've installed several other things since then? I lose all those programs when I restore and have to install them again. Just to (maybe) get rid of some registry entries? There are plenty of programs available to deal with registry problems. And some of them even work.
I agree that System Restore can be really useful, especially for people with limited knowledge of computers. For some of us it is indeed useless and that certainly doesn't make us ignorant.
Krkdnose, ole buddy,wasn't calling everybody ignorant. If one understands System Restore's strengths & weakness as you do then if it doesn't work for them, who am I to disagree and actually I was impressed that you were using Acronis.
My post was more in response to the implication by others (not you) that System Restore was somehow useless in general. You pointed out the limitations of SR, but many people are not benefiting from its strengths which are more short-term, but can save you a lot of hassle under certain circumstances. Many people are in the habit of installing and uninstalling programs willy-nilly- System Restore can allow them to do it more safely and without leaving a bunch of junk in the Registry.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 23 MAR 2005 at 6:40am |
JoGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Location: AU, Qld.
Status : Offline | Well I had a "Time Machine" with my Acer computer which was really handy, did basically the same thing as XP's System Restore. The trouble now is that the b......thing doesn't work anymore, even after reformatting the hard drive (I'm still using Win98 by the way). The only thing I can do is actually backup my registry system with Norton's then restore it after uninstalling whatever game I'm playing - that's if the game has copy protection.
As of a couple of minutes ago I just finished Black Mirror (which I loved incidentally!) but haven't restored the old registry files. Also before playing Black Mirror I played Syberia 2 - the DVD version and that also had Starforce or something similar. At the moment I'm wondering if it's even necessary to bother restoring the previous registry files as the computer seems fine so far. The other thing I sometimes do is just search all the reg. files and just remove anything left over from games like Black Mirror or anything that's been installed from the Adventure Co. for instance - don't really know if it's the thing to do either - but it's worked for me over the last few years.
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| 23 MAR 2005 at 4:51pm |
krkdnosePrivate Detective
Posts : 707
Joined: 9 JUN 2004
Status : Online | Originally Posted By SirDave (23 MAR 2005 5:37am)
Krkdnose, ole buddy,wasn't calling everybody ignorant. If one understands System Restore's strengths & weakness as you do then if it doesn't work for them, who am I to disagree and actually I was impressed that you were using Acronis.
Ok, I guess I won't challenge you to a duel after all
TrueImage is a great piece of software. I used to use Drive Image up until version 7. I didn't like that one at all (which means I also dislike the current version of Ghost which is essentially just Drive Image 7 redone slightly). I didn't like the fact that I couldn't create an image from the boot disc. You HAD to do it from Windows (and only 2000/XP). And whenever I loaded it from the boot disc, I had to use floppy driver disks to enable my raid arrays.
So I stuck with Drive Image 2002 because the previous versions of TrueImage didn't work with my raid arrays at all. But the latest version does (True Image 8 ) and it's a much slicker offering than Ghost (Drive Image 7).
For people installing/uninstalling willy-nilly ( ), there are several installation monitoring programs available that keep track of file and registry changes when something is installed and then make sure that everything is fully removed when you uninstall. Some are better than others, but some people may find them useful.
But back to the subject of this thread... (sorry about going [smiley=offtopic.gif] )
There are lots of websites with databases of games and their copy protections. On of the best ones is http://www.portmac.com. Just be aware that releases in different countries many times use different copy protections, and they're not specified. And it doesn't have every single game listed either.
Some of the crack sites also list the copy protections on the games.
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| 23 MAR 2005 at 6:24pm |
jalexSchattenjger
Posts : 2503
Joined: 5 MAR 2003
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By kuddles (21 MAR 2005 11:04pm)
I always download a crack before playing a new game. It just makes everything so much easier. Kind of sad and ironic, actually, that those who illegally download games have less hassle when playing them than someone who actually pays for it.
You make some very good points here. All the copy protection does is mess up the game so the honest person can't enjoy it and has to fight it all they way through. It even kills games games that would have been big sellers otherwize.
The Pirates can still copy it no mater what they do to it so , What is it really good for?.
I don't think anyone should mess with the original game code. There are other forms of copy protection that do not require anything added to the Cd or install a bunch of usless files on his computer and work very well.
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| 23 MAR 2005 at 8:19pm |
RecklessJourneyman
Posts : 962
Joined: 14 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By SirDave (23 MAR 2005 2:05am)
I'm sorry, but those who think that System Restore is useless, simply don't understand what it's for and how it works.
Sorry to be rather impolite but it is crap if it doesn't work : There's absolutely no 'strength' (as you put it) in a product that falls flat on it's arse when you need it most. That's why it's crap, no other reason. Suggesting I might not know wtf I'm on about doesn't cut it either thanks! The implication and tone in your response is kinda laughable. A system restore point is only useful when the sh*t hits the fan. Other than that I can clean out the registry, drivers, files manually with less hassle should anything decide it's not going to play ball and uninstall as it should.
[url=http://leisuresuitlarry.dyndns.org/]Leisure Suit Larry Archive Site[/url]&&[url=http://www.adamhearn.co.uk]Hearn Garage[/url]
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