| 3 MAR 2005 at 10:57pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Aj (3 MAR 2005 8:34pm)
I don't believe the majority of people can't buy a PC every five years for under $1000 that will play every game on the market.
Well, I don't know about the 'majority of people', but I certainly can't because I don't earn any money. And when I leave university in debt to the tune of roughly £12,000, buying top-of-the-range computers is going to be fairly low on my list of priorities for quite a few years yet. I didn't buy my last computer either, come to that; my parents only bought one for me because I needed it for my studies. I could never have afforded one on my own.
No game needs 512MB of RAM, let alone 1GB.
Ever played Knights of the Old Republic? I bought an extra 256MB of RAM purely so that I could play that game, and it still stuttered badly in some areas; also, my brother played Deus Ex: IW on my computer and had similar problems. I can't imagine how much worse it would be for something like Doom 3.
When the 9600XT is $100, and the 6600GT is under $200 those are reasonable options.
Well, they may be 'reasonable' from your point of view, but as far as I'm concerned they certainly aren't. I can't afford to spend that kind of money on gaming, full stop.
Ogre: Jenny has a point about the difficulties of installing new hardware. I'm probably relatively proficient with computers compared to the majority of the population, yet it took me a whole evening just to work out what type of memory I needed for my computer (not to mention another few hours to actually install it). And that was a relatively simple process; installing other types of hardware can be much more difficult.
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| 4 MAR 2005 at 2:49am |
AjSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 278
Joined: 25 JAN 2005
Status : Online | If their titles weren't consistently buggy on launch (and sometimes long after - see 'Arcanum' or 'Temple of Elemental Evil'), perhaps they'd still be around today.
I was a huge fan of Troika because of the history of their members but after I actually took in their titles for what they were - I was sadly dissapointed.
True, but despite the horrible bugs, the games were excellent, and a different class compared to the majority being released. They were improving, ToEE wouldn't run at all, Arcanum didn't run at certain times, and Bloodlines was inline with a lot of games I've played.
I am a student in the UK, and I was able to get a computer for under £500, AMD64 3000+, 9600XT, 1GB RAM. It plays everything. I imagine a year on the same parts are cheaper, and those specs are twice as powerful as the most demanding game requires.
Deciding which ram to use and installing it should not take so long. You have three choices of ram, SD, SODIMM, and DDR. If you are not running a laptop, you only need to consider two, SD, and DDR. Your motherboard manual should tell you which to use. It should also tell you the maximum clock it supports. As for installing it, four screws and pressing a card into a slot doesn't seem hard.
KOTOR does not need a lot of memory, it is more likely that the stuttering was because of your other hardware or the settings you had.
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| 4 MAR 2005 at 12:54pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Aj (4 MAR 2005 2:48am)
I am a student in the UK, and I was able to get a computer for under £500, AMD64 3000+, 9600XT, 1GB RAM. It plays everything. I imagine a year on the same parts are cheaper, and those specs are twice as powerful as the most demanding game requires.
Well, you must be either a lot richer than I am or a lot keener on gaming or both. Even £500 is way, way more than I'm prepared to spend for the sake of playing computer games. Perhaps if I were a 'hardcore' gamer I might be prepared to sacrifice other things in order to buy a new computer or a great graphics card, but I'm not, so it's not worth it.
As for the stuff about RAM, obviously I know that now, but I didn't at the time. I have little interest in computers other than for gaming, work and the Internet, so I don't know much about hardware at all. I had to work it all out from scratch, and however incompetent I may seem to you, I can assure you that most people wouldn't even know where to start.
And for the record, my specs are:
2.2GHz Intel Pentium IV
512MB RAM
GEForce 5200 FX
And I was playing KOTOR with 1024x768 resolution, and most of the graphical effects either turned off or on the lowest setting. Yes, I could have got it to run better if I'd turned the settings down even further, but I wasn't prepared to do that - I don't want to play games that look terrible, however good the gameplay may be. Graphics are important to me, particularly in adventure games - so sue me...
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| 4 MAR 2005 at 2:06pm |
| Deleted User | Ksandra, its as I said, if you have other priorities in spending your money, and honestly I don't know any univ. student - and I know some who don't get much money from their parents or non at all - who can't afford a decend PC in fact many now get notebooks which are clearly more expensive, then you shouldn't grouse cause their PC isn't able to play a certain game.
Also if you want to upgrade and have no idea about stuff what do you do? Go to the next computer store and ask, most smaller stores are happy when they can help you find i.e. the correct type of RAM (or check out my Bits & Bytes Article in The Inventory 21) or graphics card and upgrade your PC. You don't repair your car when it is broken, do you? You let a pro do that - its the same with computers or TV sets and so on.
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| 4 MAR 2005 at 2:34pm |
AjSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 278
Joined: 25 JAN 2005
Status : Online | Well, you must be either a lot richer than I am or a lot keener on gaming or both. Even £500 is way, way more than I'm prepared to spend for the sake of playing computer games. Perhaps if I were a 'hardcore' gamer I might be prepared to sacrifice other things in order to buy a new computer or a great graphics card, but I'm not, so it's not worth it.
You have nearly 2000 posts in 2 years on a computer game forum averaging ~2.5 posts a day. How you spend your money is up to you, but in the scheme of things, £500 minus whatever your parents paid for the PC you have is probably not a lot.
And for the record, my specs are:
2.2GHz Intel Pentium IV
512MB RAM
GEForce 5200 FX
There is a £50 difference between that card and a 9600XT, which could run KOTOR at 1600X1200, with FSAA+AF. Are you saying that a 128MB card, and 256MB RAM, are the problem? My opinion is the memory was not the bottleneck for this game.
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| 4 MAR 2005 at 2:45pm |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | :'( I'm really saddened by this news. I thought Schizm (and I hated the demo) was absolutely brilliant. Minimally flawed by some wanky acting, the imagination of the developer(s), programmer(s), and writer(s) was open-ended. What fantastic dream worlds!
Until I get a system update, I can't play Schizm 2 (Mysterious Journey 2), but I am certainly going to purchase (along with Sentinel, which I also can't run until an upgrade) all the Detalion games.
Aside from the labors of love from independent developers, these current gems (the last three-four years) may all we have left in the future for quality, pure Adventure games.
I love Schizm. I was so wrong to dislike it at first.
Mr. Miasik: thank you for hanging in there for so long. We love you for it. Please just don't disappear.
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 4 MAR 2005 at 3:43pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Ogre (4 MAR 2005 2:05pm)
Ksandra, its as I said, if you have other priorities in spending your money, and honestly I don't know any univ. student - and I know some who don't get much money from their parents or non at all - who can't afford a decend PC in fact many now get notebooks which are clearly more expensive, then you shouldn't grouse cause their PC isn't able to play a certain game.
Also if you want to upgrade and have no idea about stuff what do you do? Go to the next computer store and ask, most smaller stores are happy when they can help you find i.e. the correct type of RAM (or check out my Bits & Bytes Article in The Inventory 21) or graphics card and upgrade your PC. You don't repair your car when it is broken, do you? You let a pro do that - its the same with computers or TV sets and so on.
I've got a decent PC, just not one capable of handling the very latest and most advanced games such as Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 (well, technically it probably could handle them, just not at high settings). And if I did want to play games like that it would be much cheaper and easier to upgrade my machine than to buy a new one, but it's still more money than I'm prepared to spend. That is my main problem with upgrading, not lack of technical knowledge.
Originally Posted By Aj (4 MAR 2005 2:33pm)
You have nearly 2000 posts in 2 years on a computer game forum averaging ~2.5 posts a day. How you spend your money is up to you, but in the scheme of things, £500 minus whatever your parents paid for the PC you have is probably not a lot.
Yes, but the actual number of games I buy is pretty small - maybe one every 3-4 months on average, and a lot of those are older games which cost less. Also, the vast majority are adventure games, which don't usually have very high system requirements.
There is a £50 difference between that card and a 9600XT, which could run KOTOR at 1600X1200, with FSAA+AF. Are you saying that a 128MB card, and 256MB RAM, are the problem? My opinion is the memory was not the bottleneck for this game.
You're probably right - but again, I didn't buy that card myself. And at the time I got KOTOR I'd only had the card a few months, so I certainly wasn't prepared to get a new one at that point. Besides, even if I was happy to buy one, my parents would kill me if they found out I was spending over £100 on something like that - especially since it'll probably soon be obsolete anyway.
Yes, I do realise I'm going to have to upgrade eventually. But I don't want to end up in the situation where I have to spend large amounts of money on a regular basis just to play a handful of games. Like I said, it's not really a problem for me at the moment because I don't tend to play games like Doom 3 anyway - but if adventures start getting equally 'hi-tech' then I, and a lot of other adventure fans, are going to have trouble keeping up.
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| 4 MAR 2005 at 6:59pm |
AjSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 278
Joined: 25 JAN 2005
Status : Online | Even Dreamfall will not require anything above a low-end PC to run at acceptable detail. It is very likely the PC I bought five years ago could run it, even though I'm not too sure whether the game would support the GPU. Upgrading that for £80, seems acceptable to me after five years. I didn't spend over £600 for that PC either.
I don't find upgrading cost effective in the majority of cases, people can, and have done it successfully. They look at what companies are doing, and will plan upgrade paths to maximize costerformance.
Right now I think buying a new PC every four years should keep you in the requirements of adventure fans. If you make the right decisions.
I don't think Adventure games will catch up with other genres until atleast 18 months from now. I think Dreamfall will be behind in technology by about a year.
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| 4 MAR 2005 at 10:03pm |
KsandraSchattenjger
Posts : 2459
Joined: 2 APR 2003
Status : Online | No, I don't expect Dreamfall or any games released in the near future to be a problem. I'm thinking in terms of a few years from now - but it will depend on whether more adventure developers choose to go down this route.
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| 4 MAR 2005 at 10:28pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By RobD (3 MAR 2005 9:39pm)
Just a FYI, Jenny. It doesn't matter how big the wattage of the power supply is. It won't fry the motherboard or anything else. It just increases your ability to add more components to the PC.
Someone posted what I said over in GB Glitches. They had an HP that came with a 100 Watt power supply and weren't able to update the card. The HP tech said it would fry the motherboard if they updated the power supply.
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| 4 MAR 2005 at 10:48pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ogre (3 MAR 2005 10:07pm)
Well then they are stupid or have too much money.. I mean will you spend 1000 Dollars on something without even knowing if it is any good?
They will spend more likely $500 or $600 to buy something that will do the job they had in mind, which is the office work. They are not going to buy a new computer specifically for games when the one they have serves in every other way. They don't make these cheap computers so they can be updated.
I certainly don't have enough money to waste it... I mean buying a PC is almost like buying a car, often you don't know much about it but you try out and look around before deciding which to buy, right?
But why would they buy a more expensive computer that's made for gaming unless they were a gamer already, which they are not. They buy the computer for office type stuff and email. It serves them well until they decide they want to try a game. Do you think they're going to spend hundreds of dollars to buy a computer just for a game?
I thought that had died out? I haven't seen an add for a 300 Euro PC that didn't have an AGP port some even have an AGP card already.
It hasn't died out over here. Certainly not for budget computers.
What you said about the power supply is wrong. If you have a good one even a 200 Watt will do but since must a cheap you usually need 400 Watt for a modern PC but frying the motherboard is silly.
There are, or were recently, computers being sold that only had 100 Watt power supplies. These could not be updated.
It just might happen that some additinal card won't run and that the PC shuts down or freezes.
Also I doubt that my aged PC can compete with a new cheap one, the CPU alone is 2 times as fast, for 400 Euro you can already get a PC with decent graphic capabilities if you look at the right place.
I have no idea what is being sold in Europe. In the US you can still buy junk computers if you don't know what you are doing.
If people are not willing to learn even the basics don't you think they would be better of with a console and a typewriter?
Definitely. But if you're trying to find new gamers for adventure games for the computer, you have to make it very easy for them. Don't tell them they have to pay to upgrade their computer to play the game they bought because they'll just see it as throwing good money after bad.
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| 4 MAR 2005 at 11:01pm |
RobDSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 382
Joined: 30 NOV 2002
Status : Online | Someone posted what I said over in GB Glitches. They had an HP that came with a 100 Watt power supply and weren't able to update the card. The HP tech said it would fry the motherboard if they updated the power supply.
Well, I've never owned an HP but my guess is that their motherboards are proprietary
like Dell's are (or used to be). This means that the size of the motherboard and probably
some of the connectors on it are not the same as any standard PC out there. They do
that because they want you to buy their parts for repairs and upgrades. This also
means that the power supply doesn't have standard connectors either.
The point is that they can do whatever they want with their power supplies and motherboards.
Yes, it's possible to fry the motherboard if they change the output voltages from
the 100 watt supply to a higher wattage supply. But I would consider that unlikely.
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| 4 MAR 2005 at 11:07pm |
AjSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 278
Joined: 25 JAN 2005
Status : Online | Someone posted what I said over in GB Glitches. They had an HP that came with a 100 Watt power supply and weren't able to update the card. The HP tech said it would fry the motherboard if they updated the power supply.
That's simple not true for an ATX PC. The power is regulated, couldn't have been a techy who said that. I can't even buy a 200W PSU now, they have become obsolete for atleast 3 years.
It hasn't died out over here. Certainly not for budget computers.
I haven't seen any motherboards being produced like this, but I'll have a look, not in the past five years.
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| 4 MAR 2005 at 11:36pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Aj (4 MAR 2005 11:07pm)
I can't even buy a 200W PSU now, they have become obsolete for atleast 3 years.
Yeah I couldn't believe it either. Even my 486 has a 125W power supply, and here was this relatively recent HP that came with a 100W power supply. The person's computer may have been 2 or 3 years old, but it was clearly a bottom of the line computer even when it came out, whatever they may have paid for it.
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| 5 MAR 2005 at 2:50am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Just a little background for those who 'worry' about the cost of present computers: The original 'usable' IBM PC- the IBM-XT with a floppy drive, 10mb harddisk, 16K memory and green on black monochrome monitor cost in the realm of $4000 and that was in 1983 dollars!
When you consider what you get for just $1500 now (which would be probably about $800 in 1983 dollars), that is a computer that will run most games, even 3d-action games, you shouldn't cry too much about what you're paying for computers.
In fact, although no-one asked me, because computers are so cheap now: my suggestion to people who worry about viruses etc.: buy two computers one for $500-600 that will just be used for internet-surfing. Make a drive-image of its Drive C when you have it just the way you want it and simply restore it every few weeks (along with your current Favorites, My Documents & Outlook files)- that way you can forget about firewalls (except you should install a router as a hardware firewall!), viruses programs & all that other junk.
The other computer for $1300-1500 can be your main computer for game-playing and all other personal/business needs.
Both computers can use the same monitor & keyboard, connected by a KVM switch.
I've been doing this for the last 8 years and unencumbered web-surfing is a nice experience!
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 5 MAR 2005 at 4:36am |
AjSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 278
Joined: 25 JAN 2005
Status : Online | I don't see why you'd need a seperate PC for web-surfing. I don't have any virus/malware problems with opera and thunderbird. What has made you adopt this setup Dave?
If for some reason you are worried about viruses I would recommend you dual boot XP and a Linux distribution. Linux is secure and stable, and can do general tasks like surfing and word processing pretty easily. Although for business and games you might be forced to use Windows XP.
I use more than one PC with a KVM switch, one is for doing long batch processing style jobs like, rendering, downloading/uploading, the other for games/work/anything, and my laptop which is rarely on there for updating.
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| 5 MAR 2005 at 7:33am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Aj (5 MAR 2005 4:36am)
I don't see why you'd need a seperate PC for web-surfing. I don't have any virus/malware problems with opera and thunderbird. What has made you adopt this setup Dave?
Because it gives you the ability to web-surf freely with total compatibility of your system intact. Opera & Thunderbird are fine but inevitably there are compatibility problems- you may not be affected by them, but I see them all the time. Just one for instance: Thunderbird does not sync with PDAs eg. palm or pocketpc. On the other hand, if you set up a typical system that uses Explorer & Outlook/Outoook Express, the average user has to install and use various adware & virus protection systems. Inevitably, there are interruptions in the freedom of your surfing & conflicts with other software. One of the commonest reasons people take their computers in for servicing is software conflicts between various 'protective' programs & other software.
If for some reason you are worried about viruses I would recommend you dual boot XP and a Linux distribution. Linux is secure and stable, and can do general tasks like surfing and word processing pretty easily. Although for business and games you might be forced to use Windows XP.
I use more than one PC with a KVM switch, one is for doing long batch processing style jobs like, rendering, downloading/uploading, the other for games/work/anything, and my laptop which is rarely on there for updating.
Once again, the setup you describe above may work for your situation but it is restrictive. Dual boot systems can be a hassle when it comes to installing & deinstalling software and FWIW, dual boot systems won't be supported by the next version of Windows coming down the pike. Also, Linux may be stable etc., but you simply don't have the compatibility with all the windows-compatible software out there.
The system I described allows you to have total compatibility & ease of web-surfing.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 5 MAR 2005 at 5:12pm |
MaciekIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 78
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Mr. Miasik: thank you for hanging in there for so long. We love you for it. Please just don't disappear.
I'm still here and I will vist the forum frequently. Thank you all for your support.
Maciej Miasik&&[url]www.detalion.com[/url]
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| 5 MAR 2005 at 9:36pm |
AjSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 278
Joined: 25 JAN 2005
Status : Online | Just one for instance: Thunderbird does not sync with PDAs eg. palm or pocketpc.
Funny enough, this isn't a problem with Thunderbird on FreeBSD, Linux, MacOS X, and OpenBSD.
Also, Linux may be stable etc., but you simply don't have the compatibility with all the windows-compatible software out there.
I don't see this as a problem, a lot of the must have programs run under WINE really well, sometimes better than on windows, and there are enough free alternaties to windows software that are as good if not better.
Obviously for games and some business applications you aren't going to get around that Microsoft has sometihng like 85% of the market, but for general computer use I see no real reasons why Linux isn't the better option.
Linux doesn't have to be compatible, even though with WINE it can be, it just has to be better, and I think it is.
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| 5 MAR 2005 at 9:58pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Maciek (5 MAR 2005 5:12pm)
I'm still here and I will vist the forum frequently. Thank you all for your support.
Glad to hear it! FWIW- I have been a strong fan of the original Schizm (and since then, the 2 games that followed) since it came out. I particularly admired it because it used the Myst template, but was in no way, shape, or form a Myst lookalike. In fact, what has happened (IMO) is that Schizm, Mysterious Journey II & Sentinel have formed a group of games that stand on their own and provide a whole separate experience from Myst but still share the same satisfaction as Myst after you've played them! Also, Schizm in particular has become a benchmark (along with perhaps Riven) for one of the most challenging AG experiences there is.
So, we're all keeping our fingers crossed that you'll be able to find another way to continue the 'Schizm experience' for us!
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 5 MAR 2005 at 10:20pm |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Supreme Goddess (3 MAR 2005 9:48pm)
Oh Bugger, bugger, bugger......
I was waiting for Sentinel to be released in Oz - March 31st used to be the date. What can I do now?
Damn! amn! Damn!
I really, really enjoyed Schizm II, much better than number 1.
oh sod...... > > > >
Won't it still be released?
Detalion isn't the publisher.
I'm not sure who the Australian publisher is for Sentinel, but I don't think they'd be out of business too.
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| 6 MAR 2005 at 12:05pm |
MaciekIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 78
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Our situation doesn't affect the release of our games by TAC.
Maciej Miasik&&[url]www.detalion.com[/url]
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| 6 MAR 2005 at 11:06pm |
CarolineJA+ Overseer
Posts : 16540
Joined: 28 JAN 2007
Location: AU
Status : Offline | I'm still able to pre-order Sentinel, so I have. I'm just sad that what looked like a promising team will not be producing games anymore. :'(
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| 6 MAR 2005 at 11:14pm |
AvakaJourneyman
Posts : 1437
Joined: 17 SEP 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Supreme Goddess (6 MAR 2005 11:06pm)
I'm still able to pre-order Sentinel, so I have. I'm just sad that what looked like a promising team will not be producing games anymore. :'(
Caroline,
You will love this game. I'm a bit stuck right now on a puzzle (so what else is new) but I'm really enjoying it. I love how you can move about anywhere you want, look at anything you want, gosh it's just like a real adventure game!! I really hope that the talent that put out games like this will succeed in a new venture.
Myst IV - Never finished it. Got frustrated with it.&&Myst V - Did not finish it either. Very disappointing.&&ATTWN - BORING!!! Never finished it. Kept falling asleep.&&Paradise - So far .... not so good&&Voyage - Not on my favorite list
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