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| 6 JAN 2005 at 1:57pm |
SyberianSpace Cadet
Posts : 134
Joined: 22 OCT 2004
Status : Online | Give us a budget the equivalent of Deus Ex and we'll do it.
I can understand a big budget being needed for flashy graphics and audio, but what does that have to do with the core design? "We're sorry our game is hopelessly linear, but we ran out of money."
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 2:05pm |
Steve IncePrivate Detective
Posts : 571
Joined: 7 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | Additional design, writing, recording, implementation, animation, graphics, testing, etc. all cost more money.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 2:11pm |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Syberian (6 JAN 2005 1:38pm)
2) Diaries instead of characters. That's lazy and lame.
No, it's not. It's not that easy put a character in your game which behaves realisticly, nor is it to make a journal that really reads like the real thing. Saying journals are lazy really is silly. Like them or not, they take quite some work (I wrote a journal for my game - it had information I would've had no other means of telling for).
Originally Posted By Syberian (6 JAN 2005 1:38pm)
Special Demerit: Only one way to solve each puzzle. Give us real choices, as in games like Deus Ex.
R-right. You do realise that instead of one solution you'd have an amount like 3? Making the puzzle easier to solve, making it harder to make more puzzles.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 2:25pm |
Pastor DisasterJourneyman
Posts : 1056
Joined: 14 DEC 2004
Status : Online | In the midst of playing "Beneath a Steel Sky," I can offer a few:
(very minor spoilers below)
1. Nudity that you can't avoid. The pictures in the cosmetic surgery place--come on, I know I'm a grown-up, but (a) I'd rather look at my wife's accoutrements than some junior-high boy's pixelated titilation (sounds positively rhythmic, doesn't it?); and (b) I'd like to be able to play a game with my preschool kids in the room without being surprised by something they don't need to worry about yet.
2. "That doesn't work" lines--actually, BASS got this right. The guy just shrugs if it doesn't work.
3. Walking...walking...walking...waiting for your robot pal to catch up because he's even slower than you...waiting...waiting.
4. Dialogue trees which don't allow you to repeat crucial information. Okay, maybe this is just my little pet peeve combined with my inherent laziness. I don't particularly care for dialogue trees to begin with, so I tend to click through them fairly quickly, just picking up the flavor of what's going on. But inevitably there is a critical piece of information disguised as simple ranting ("I need a vacation". Other games let you get that same information repeatedly until you solve that puzzle.
5. Any game that finds Satan more interesting than God (this is just my religious convictions talking, so I don't expect you to necessarily agree on that).
6. Games heavily weighted toward "lateral thinking"--which in reality means games heavily weighted toward randomly combining two completely unrelated objects in the vain hope that a teapot, a toenail, and a piece of kryptonite will just happen to combine to form a fully functioning GPS satellite. (Okay, that was a bit of an exaggeration, but I'm seeing it an awful lot.)
7. Little girly-men who can't handle higher mathematics.
8-10. Lists that require me to come up with ten different items, when I'm barely smart enough to come up with six.
Dyslexics wonder why there isn't a word that means the same thing as "cinnamon."
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 4:22pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Since the Myst-clones are under attack:
Get rid of all games that don't have:
1) a combo of valves, pipes and levers
2) puzzles where you have to align three cylinders, locks,
whatever, and they all turn at different rates
3) pre-rendered pretty to beautiful graphics
4) minimal or no character interaction
5) minimal or no inventory
6) gray and/or metallic objects and machines in at least one of
every 3 new scenes/places.
7) simple plot line such as the one I just thought up: a father
has learned to use books that link to other worlds, one of
which he has locked his 2 sons in.
8 ) linear play with non-linear play allowed as long as it is done
exactly they way it was in Riven.
9) general design structure so derivative that the Myst authors
have to be given credit at the end of every game.
10) a structure that will not be toyed with, played with, or
changed thru the several sequels that will be mandatory!
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 4:34pm |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | Ok, now we have mentioned almost every feature that's native to adventure ...
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 5:41pm |
GrimCurseIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 83
Joined: 8 SEP 2004
Status : Online | Enough! Get rid of all those wretched adventure games and let's interact with a rubik's cube in front of the TV instead.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 5:41pm |
Goddess of All Things MagicalSchattenjger
Posts : 1565
Joined: 27 MAY 2003
Status : Online | SO.........................Like everything else no games is PERFECT!
&&&&Listening to XM Radio Starbucks Cafe Channel 45&&[IMG]http://img227.echo.cx/img227/8458/dancelikenooneiswatching6ld.png[/IMG]
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 5:47pm |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Romnut (6 JAN 2005 5:41pm)
SO.........................Like everything else no games is PERFECT!
Zork Nemesis is perfect.... though....
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 9:08pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By The Parrot (6 JAN 2005 5:47pm)
Zork Nemesis is perfect.... though....
Tetris was and still is perfect.
Cheers, Terry
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 9:18pm |
Goddess of All Things MagicalSchattenjger
Posts : 1565
Joined: 27 MAY 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By The Parrot (6 JAN 2005 5:47pm)
Zork Nemesis is perfect.... though....
Hmmmmm. Guess I'll have to play it.
&&&&Listening to XM Radio Starbucks Cafe Channel 45&&[IMG]http://img227.echo.cx/img227/8458/dancelikenooneiswatching6ld.png[/IMG]
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 9:21pm |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | Sometimes it's fun to buy a bottle of hard liquor along with a new adventure game, and you take a drink every time you encounter a cliche. I did this recently with The Omega Stone, and I passed out before the opening sequence was over.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 11:18pm |
SusanGuild Master
Posts : 5485
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Pastor_Disaster (6 JAN 2005 2:24pm)
5. Any game that finds Satan more interesting than God (this is just my religious convictions talking, so I don't expect you to necessarily agree on that). I'll second that! Or how about less of the former and more of the latter? For the record, there are religious games out there, but they just aren't that great. :-/
I'll take my "Bible Adventures" (played on an original Nintendo, but technically designed for any console at the time) and help Noah gather up supplies for his Ark anyday over some of the other games out there.
I miss my Bubba: 1986 - 2006.
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| 7 JAN 2005 at 12:03am |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By GrimCurse (6 JAN 2005 5:40pm)
Enough! Get rid of all those wretched adventure games and let's interact with a rubik's cube in front of the TV instead.
to make it even more interesting, let's interact with a rubik's cube in front of a slide projector, and every time we solve it we'll watch a new slide!
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 7 JAN 2005 at 1:04am |
Lady KestrelGuild Master
Posts : 4038
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, NJ
Status : Offline | I wouldn’t want to see any elements retired from adventure games, as long as they’re done well.
1. A maze with a map and/or distinctive features is fun, and I don’t mind sliders as long as I have a template for reference.
2. I love a tough puzzle of any kind, but give me good clues to work it out and don’t make it a hit-or-miss senario.
3. If I have to use inventory items, make the system easy to access and the items sortable and usable in a logical way. I don’t mind inventive combinations when there aren’t logical items around, but don’t make me use buttter on a rusty lock when I have perfectly good oil in my inventory.
4. If I have to talk to someone, the conversation should be logical and not too long, the voices clear and decent, and spoken clues repeatable. Also, give the hearing impaired and non-native speakers subtitles.
5. Make journal entries and notes legible and drawings clear. Although I don’t mind taking notes and drawing pictures, a recording/viewing device, such as the camera/journal in Myst 4, is preferable for most people.
6. Give me the ability to go back and review something and zip mode to get there quickly.
7. I like history and science, so the edutainment adventures are enjoyable for me as long as the learning aspects are also fun. Physicus did it well, but Chemicus not as well.)
8. I’ve had a great time with games with Egyptian and Mayan themes, but I agree that new places (and times) would be welcome. I’d like to see more sci-fi with good aliens (not the kind you have to blow up) and more fantasies.
9. I prefer no timed sequences in my adventure games, but if the developers can’t resist including them, then they should be tested on gamers like me (old and slow). I hate to die, but if you’re going to kill me, put me right back to where I started the sequence. Better yet, give me another way out.
10. on’t limit my saves. I want to save often and frequently.
"Where is the fountain that throws up these flowers in a ceaseless outbreak of ecstasy?"
-Rabindranath Tagore
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| 7 JAN 2005 at 1:37am |
SarahJourneyman
Posts : 913
Joined: 13 JUL 2004
Status : Offline | *mostly quoted*
1. Puzzles involving a combo of valves, pipes and levers. Every time, there are different types of valves, pipes and levers. Different sizes and colors. I don't want anymore of these. :'( :'(
2. Egypt/Atlantis. If I see a new game that comes out with any of these themes, I'll say " Ugh.. I'll pass" I know this world as they say is small but it's larger than those two places.
3. Limited saves. Something might happen. Savings have to be flexible.
4. Timed sequence. It's like dejavu. You have to do it over and over and over again.
5. Keyboard only controls. Don't like it. Don't like it. Don't like it. Controls prefered: keyboard + mouse or mouse only.
6. Games that clones other games. It's obvious. There are many out there.
7. Limited inventory. Me want big. Can give big?
8. No run option in 3rd person games
9. Adventures with fighting. It won't be adventure anymore. It would be action/adventure. Not that I don't play action games.
10. Pixel hunting. That's what usually makes me look for a walkthrough and regret it later.
So there you go! I'm off to bed.
Still busy being a mom &&
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| 7 JAN 2005 at 1:39am |
SalarIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 27
Joined: 18 OCT 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | I very much like your list, Lady K.
[ramble]
For one thing the suggestions you make seem to show the real issue. Games are made of many components, and we'd like them all to be done well. Even in making my list I found myself thinking things like 'but you LIKED the last Egyptian & Atlantis games you played. Sam & Max had timed bits but those were fun. Sometimes repeated conversations are necessary to keep a clue available etc etc "
and then there's the personal preference difference.
I enjoyed lever puzzles in Riven & Exile & numerous other games. You will never bore me by rendering a life-like lovely garden with a waterfall or pool, not with 300 variations
& I get a major kick out of reading stories, journal entries, diaries and such in games..at least when they are well written.
Sometimes even cliches are comfortable old friends. I dont think anybody really minded the Templar refs in the Broken Sword series. Yes, Omega Stone used many 'cliched' elements inthe plot but I still found the overall game cool. OS had lovely graphics, some great puzzles, and interesting subplots. I enjoyed making fun of Humphrey & it was good to see the professor again. ~ It was just a good thing he didnt stick around long enough to listen to me to rant about his good buddy's Celtic/Templar compound puzzles
Sliders & crate puzzles. I usually dont have too much trouble with sliders, so I dont mind them & it depends on how the crates are used. I thought the crates were very well implemented in BS3, though I wasnt as fond of some of its timed sequences. I really *really* hate getting shot in a game. Its ranks right down there with large snakes & furry spiders *shudder* But I still remember the sense of accomplishment when I won and I hadnt needed saves but for one area. Thats a real good example, I think. I enjoyed elements of BS3 and sincerely disliked a couple of others. My opinion of the game overall ends up being a sort of mental math...positive in this case. I think thats typical of most good games.
After all, only Myst/Riven is perfect. *runs fast*
Susan
[/ramble]
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| 7 JAN 2005 at 2:17am |
DJ SouzaJourneyman
Posts : 1452
Joined: 19 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Aya (7 JAN 2005 12:03am)
let's interact with a rubik's cube in front of a slide projector, and every time we solve it we'll watch a new slide! You know I don't hate Myst, but I find this incredibly funny!
[center]DIEGO J. SOUZA&&Consulting Detective for Hire[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/YaBBImages/smilies//detective.gif[/img]&&&&[img]http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Fairygdmther/Avatars/A-G-E-S_SIG.jpg[/img][/center]
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| 7 JAN 2005 at 2:25am |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SirDave (6 JAN 2005 4:22pm)
Since the Myst-clones are under attack:
Get rid of all games that don't have:
1) a combo of valves, pipes and levers
2) puzzles where you have to align three cylinders, locks,
whatever, and they all turn at different rates
3) pre-rendered pretty to beautiful graphics
4) minimal or no character interaction
5) minimal or no inventory
6) gray and/or metallic objects and machines in at least one of
every 3 new scenes/places.
7) simple plot line such as the one I just thought up: a father
has learned to use books that link to other worlds, one of
which he has locked his 2 sons in.
8 ) linear play with non-linear play allowed as long as it is done
exactly they way it was in Riven.
9) general design structure so derivative that the Myst authors
have to be given credit at the end of every game.
10) a structure that will not be toyed with, played with, or
changed thru the several sequels that will be mandatory!
Psssssssssssst - exactly -
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| 7 JAN 2005 at 3:20am |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5538
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Susan (6 JAN 2005 11:18pm)
I'll take my "Bible Adventures" (played on an original Nintendo, but technically designed for any console at the time) and help Noah gather up supplies for his Ark anyday over some of the other games out there.
Hey, I remember that game -- I thought I was the only one who played it! That really was a surprising amount of fun.
Originally Posted By Aya (7 JAN 2005 12:03am)
to make it even more interesting, let's interact with a rubik's cube in front of a slide projector, and every time we solve it we'll watch a new slide!
Yeah, cool -- let's do that! [smiley=rockin.gif]
Oh.....Were you being sarcastic? Now I'm hurt. *Sniff*
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