| 5 JAN 2005 at 9:44pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Aya (5 JAN 2005 2:52pm)
for example, if your favorite games are myst, riven, schizm, obsidian etc etc, then the fact that you didn't like other worlds doesn't take away anything from the game, since you are not a fan of those kinds of games in the first place...
Whoa there! The two kinds of games aren't mutually exclusive, you know. Although Riven is probably my favourite game, my preference for one or the other varies depending on my mood.
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| 5 JAN 2005 at 10:05pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Fickfack (5 JAN 2005 9:44pm)
Whoa there! The two kinds of games aren't mutually exclusive, you know. Although Riven is probably my favourite game, my preference for one or the other varies depending on my mood.
yes, you're right... but there are cases of ppl, for example, who don't like inv puzzles period... when such a person talks badly about a game cause it has inv puzzles, their critisism is not valid cause it's biased... that's the point i wanted to make
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 1:18am |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
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I couldn't agree more Aya.
Personal taste in games or anything else is entirely subjective. So any value judgement made by any person who bases his or her opinion primarily on their own personal preferences (as opposed to objective criteria and a broader view) is invalid.
The one and only truth to a statement about personal taste is that a single individual either liked or disliked something. That is as far as it goes. It is also why I believe we should label general public polls about things like games, art, music, films, fashion and food as being a list of "personal favorites" not "best". The first can be expressed with absolute honesty in very simple yes or no replies. The second however, must also be accompanied by a thorough explanation of the objective reasoning used to reach one's conclusions supported by complete and accurate historical comparisons and a full listing of each person's experience / qualifications using unbiased criteria.
Cheers, Terry
P.S.
As it relates to this thread, the original post asked for personal opinions about a particular freeware game and that is what most respondents provided. Some gave specific reasons for liking or disliking various aspects of the game. But in the end, those were simply expressions of personal preference and individual impressions. However, some of the criticisms were perfectly valid and IMO done in mostly a civil, constructive way.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 8:19am |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | Aya:
While I enjoyed reading your well-written review of Alkis' game Other Worlds on Just Adventure +, I cannot for the life of me understand why you would create a Poll like this.
To scrutinize an independent game developer - whom I consider a "friend of the genre" - with some of the insensitive Poll selections you've listed doesn't really tell me much about the game, but your Poll tells me some things about you.
I at least hope you had the good graces and permission of Alkis to run this Poll. If not: I think that you should have been satisfied writing your review, offering your personal opinions, having it published and left it at that.
The underlying gist of your Poll seems to me to be not of concern for Other Worlds, but about you wondering: "How am I doing?".
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 9:46am |
gfx johnnyIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 16
Joined: 2 JAN 2005
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Aya (5 JAN 2005 10:05pm)
who don't like inv puzzles period... when such a person talks badly about a game cause it has inv puzzles, their critisism is not valid cause it's biased
Originally Posted By Terry_Penrod (6 JAN 2005 1:17am)
Personal taste in games or anything else is entirely subjective. So any value judgement made by any person who bases his or her opinion primarily on their own personal preferences (as opposed to objective criteria and a broader view) is invalid.
I would be careful with these kind of statements, Aya. Terrys statement is better (if both of you would mean the same). Of course someone who doesn't like inventory puzzles for example, won't like a game where this kind of riddles are plentiful. But if he is a facutal and objective person, he will be able to criticise different things. He could say, this inventory riddle is bad, because of xyz. It's not that he had to be dumb, he could see more or less obvious flaws as every other person could.
And valid is every opinion if you ask me. But i agree with the importance of background and dislikes - the question is: was the person influenced by his overall dislike for these kind of games, or was he rather objective? And the point is, you could verify that even without knowing the background of this person - because in the majority of cases his statements are enough to show what his opinion is all about.
And so the question about my gaming habits was rather useless. Even if i would love Myst-like games and logical machine puzzles, my constructive criticism would be as valid as being the old school adventure fan i am.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 11:09am |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Mark (6 JAN 2005 8:19am)
Aya:
While I enjoyed reading your well-written review of Alkis' game Other Worlds on Just Adventure +, I cannot for the life of me understand why you would create a Poll like this.
To scrutinize an independent game developer - whom I consider a "friend of the genre" - with some of the insensitive Poll selections you've listed doesn't really tell me much about the game, but your Poll tells me some things about you.
I at least hope you had the good graces and permission of Alkis to run this Poll. If not: I think that you should have been satisfied writing your review, offering your personal opinions, having it published and left it at that.
The underlying gist of your Poll seems to me to be not of concern for Other Worlds, but about you wondering: "How am I doing?".
Mark, I can't say I agree with you. I think you are the one who kind of 'scrutinizes' (cool verb! ) Aya's intentions. First of all, he doesn't need my permission to post anything, we know each other very well on a personal basis and he already knew I would have no problem with it. I could have started the poll myself. You and everyone else who wonder about my and his eccentric opinions when it comes to graphics should take a more careful look at my homepage, beyond the 'Other Worlds' section: you will find pictures of us travelling to other counties to play a 14 year old computer game (Kick Off 2) that didn't look that great graphics-wise even in 1990. Something like that can seem extremely weird to people who started playing computer games a few years ago, as the fact that people value graphics so much seems extremely weird to me and Aya. So all he was trying to do was to find out who decided not to give the game a try (or to give up early) because of the graphics, and who did not care about them at all. He's a very unselfish person and I did not for a moment believe that he did it for personal reasons.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 11:20am |
alkis21Schattenjger
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Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | As for you Johnny, I did not stop replying to you because you were rude (you were anything but). I stopped because I couldn't make you realize my point. I told you a couple of times that my reaction is exactly the same when people say they absolutely loved Other Worlds; I say 'thank you' but there's really nothing more to say. You chose to ignore that because you had already decided that all I'm really looking for is praise. I will ask you to read the previous 14 pages if you want to find out whether I reply to negative criticism or not. I repeat: 100% positive criticism and 100% negative criticism don't leave much room for discussion, no matter how well described the points are. You hate the game, I'm sorry I wasted your time by making you download it, but excuse me if I don't feel like analysing every little detail about why you hated it. We'll end up talking for eons and no result will come out.
Now please burry the hatchet and stop your "O Tempora, O Mores" attitude. And by the way, OF COURSE every opinion is not valid; every opinion is respected, but not everyone can be right at the same time.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 12:00pm |
gfx johnnyIntergalactic Janitor
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Joined: 2 JAN 2005
Status : Online | I repeat: 100% positive criticism and 100% negative criticism don't leave much room for discussion, no matter how well described the points are.
It's easy to say i don't got your point, i could say the same. I understand your statement to full extent, but imho it's wrong. Think about it: you can't discuss some factual statements, just because there are 100% of them? That's ridiculous, sorry :-[ If there were 5 of these negative statements, and one positive, you could talk about the criticism? Hey, i even said your demon scene was great
Yeah yeah i know, i'm unfair because i just hate your game, and so i just see all the negative things - that is not true! It's not as simple as that.
You hate the game, I'm sorry I wasted your time by making you download it The game itself was no waste of time for me, because i like to experience new games. No need to be sorry - as i said at adventure developers, i have high respect for your achievement itself.
And regarding the "hate" - it's a case of definiton. I don't hate your game, because hate is an emotion, and i don't feel anything when thinking about your game and its flaws and strengths. Hate is a state where you care for something, and i don't. I just wanted to show my opinion so perhaps you could take something from it if would make sense to you.
but excuse me if I don't feel like analysing every little detail about why you hated it. We'll end up talking for eons and no result will come out
This is true, though. You don't need to comment on my opinion, i just resisted in turning my criticism into something non factual, into an emotion or some kind of distemper.
Now please burry the hatchet and stop your "O Tempora, O Mores" attitude.
I don't think we are at war. It's a hot discussion, and this is the right place after all
I don't know what you mean with this latin sentence. I know the meaning of the sentence itself from a cicero speech, but what do you want to express with that?
And by the way, OF COURSE every opinion is not valid; every opinion is respected, but not everyone can be right at the same time.
Again a matter of definition, as the term "valid" has several meanings. I thought it was used as "legitimate". You should read Ayas contribution again, because she didn't use "valid" as "true, right, correct" obviously, wouldn't make sense (although it's confusing anyway, because only of someone's background the accuracy and correctness of his statement doesn't change as said before). So if someone is bashing your game, loves myst and hates inventory puzzle adventures, and have nothing factual to say - then it's obvious why he bashed it. But that is dependant solely on his statements. Ah well, i said this before, sorry.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 12:21pm |
| Deleted User | Aya, you're such a girl.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 1:59pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SquarejawHero (6 JAN 2005 12:21pm)
Aya, you're such a girl.
[img]aya.tecort.net/pics/hula.gif[/img]
@mark: what alkis said... plus, the purpose of this poll is not to scrutinize the game, but to see how many ppl consider gfx so important that they'd refuse to play such an excellent, in all other aspects, game just because of that
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 3:23pm |
MarkGuild Master
Posts : 3803
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Location: US, Georgia
Status : Offline | @mark: what alkis said... plus, the purpose of this poll is not to scrutinize the game, but to see how many ppl consider gfx so important that they'd refuse to play such an excellent, in all other aspects, game just because of that.
Okay, I understand now, and I'm glad you and Alkis are friends.
So, your Poll was more about whether or not someone liked (or disliked) the game based mainly on Alkis' graphics.
But who cares what "Graphic Weenies" think, anyway?
Oh. I forgot. They would buy the game if the graphics are fabulous, and that's important to the developers' well-being.
"It's the story, I tell ya!"
But where's the walkthrough, Alkis?
I'm kidding. I know how you feel about those horrible, naughty things.
And "scrutiny" rhymes with "mutiny".
Please proofread your posts carefully to see if you any words out.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 8:54pm |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | [smiley=laughing.gif] @ "Graphic Weenies"
Originally Posted By gfx johnny (6 JAN 2005 12:00pm)
I don't know what you mean with this latin sentence. I know the meaning of the sentence itself from a cicero speech, but what do you want to express with that?
I mean the "What is the world coming to, people dimissing perfectly constructive opinions" attitude.
Again a matter of definition, as the term "valid" has several meanings. I thought it was used as "legitimate". You should read Ayas contribution again, because she didn't use "valid" as "true, right, correct" obviously, wouldn't make sense (although it's confusing anyway, because only of someone's background the accuracy and correctness of his statement doesn't change as said before)
As a non-native English speaker, I resorted to a dictionary:
VALID
Merriam-Webster's definition seems to be different than yours.
WARNING: The following is in reference to the phrase "valid opinion" in general, not Johnny's opinion in Other Worlds.
We live in an era where people praise the right to speak one's opinion. Although this is a good thing in most occasions, it also means we have to listen to quite a lot of bull manure. Anyone with an adequate command of the English language can put a few sentences together. Here's an example:
Godfather? Don't get me started. Mafia films.. full of stereotypes about fat 50 year old guys who don't look any tougher than my grandmother. That guy Brando can't act! And why was the montage so awful? And why aren't there any boobs in the film? The story is inconsistent and the characters are not developed. How are we supposed to know about character development anyway if nobody bother to tell us about it? Take Syberia, for instance. I love Syberia. People called on the phone to inform Kate Walker she was changing in case she hadn't noticed. "Mine, Kate, you've changed!" "Oh yes, I've changed, isn't it obvious? The game programmers thought of actually putting a scroll bar above my head that would indicate my development points, but it kept getting in the way of the awesome graphics so they decided against it". That's character development for you.
In conclusion: In a world where any petty director can dismiss the use of Gods in Illiad as 'silly' and produce a film like Troy, I spit on the face of valid opinions! Meanwhile, people will still be talking about Homer for another 1000 years, while nobody will remember that clown 50 years from today. Unless he decides to release "A Midsummer Night's Dream" without the faeries.
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 9:00pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Whatever the intentions of the original poster were, this thread has long since expanded to include additional commentary (both pro and con) about all facets of this game including comparisons to a variety of other games. These comparisons began as direct replies to the initial question about graphic quality but they too evolved to encompass comments about the story, puzzles, music and other elements.
Most of this has been productive and interesting. However, at this point the discussion has become too personal IMO to be of any real value to the game's creator or others reading along. It has grown repetitive and is now focused more on people's motives for posting rather than on the game itself. For that reason alone, perhaps it's time to simply retire the subject.
Cheers, Terry
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 9:09pm |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Why Terry? It's quite fun, and as long as my name is spelled correctly, any publicity is good publicity. [smiley=laughing.gif]
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 9:16pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By alkis21 (6 JAN 2005 9:09pm)
Why Terry? It's quite fun, and as soon as my name is spelled correctly, any publicity is good publicity. [smiley=laughing.gif]
Of course, suit yourself Alkis. It just didn't look like you were having any fun at this point either.
Cheers, Terry
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| 6 JAN 2005 at 9:45pm |
gfx johnnyIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 16
Joined: 2 JAN 2005
Status : Online | Merriam-Webster's definition seems to be different than yours.
"Well-grounded or justifiable" is the term i would go for, as i said before (legitimate). It's no wonder they seperated it from "logically correct". I'm no native speaker either, but i can see a difference there and don't see where this definition would negate my argument. After all i think we mean the same. Of course there are lots of opinions out there you won't take serious.
Besides, i agree completley with Terry. This discussion is as offtopic and repititive as possible, so sorry to all readers *gfx johnny drops out of this thread*
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| 24 MAR 2005 at 4:01am |
jay_rossIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 25
Joined: 18 MAR 2005
Status : Online | YOU ARE DEFFENALTY RIGHT ABOUT THE GRAFICS THING
NANCY DREW
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| 25 APR 2005 at 10:57pm |
AnneGuild Master
Posts : 4800
Joined: 8 MAR 2003
Status : Online | There is a walkthrough.(smug grin).It gives you the spells too.
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| 2 JUL 2006 at 9:18pm |
DeloriaIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 1
Joined: 2 JUL 2006
Status : Online | Loved it, gfx didn't bother me at all.
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| 20 JUL 2006 at 10:44pm |
percyIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 9
Joined: 20 JUL 2006
Status : Online | i didn't like the graphics, nor the style. even though the graphics was bad, it was also inconsistent. which starts to happen when you start to copy and paste.
as to the story and gameplay, well, i don't really know. i thought the game was badly designed, and could have used a map. the puzzles was more running around from one corner to the other, and trying to remember who is who, and who needs what. just seemed to have thrown as much characters and rooms in the game as possible, and using that as a feature.
can't really comment on the story, since i already forget what the game was about. :-?
:-/
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