| 21 DEC 2004 at 4:27pm |
sennebecGuild Master
Posts : 3334
Joined: 15 NOV 2004
Location: US, maine
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ogre (21 DEC 2004 2:58pm)
If you want to say something to me do it in private
fer crise sakes...
you really have no sense of humor [smiley=boggled.gif]
for the record...
after reading this tome of absurdity, i downloaded alkis' game...
i'm enjoying it
it is a great freeware game... a good romp for most any adventurer! the only annoying thing i found about the game was the music, so i turned it down...
the graphics were not a problem for me what-so-ever.
thanks for a pleasurable romp through your world, alkis! [smiley=clap.gif]
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| 21 DEC 2004 at 4:29pm |
DJ SouzaJourneyman
Posts : 1452
Joined: 19 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Aya (21 DEC 2004 4:10pm)
btw, do you by any chance know the name of an atari 2600 game? you controled a lunar vehicle or smth (smth like in moon patrol), scrolling from left to right, but there were two levels, and at times you needed to go to the bottom level (where the game scrolled from right to left) to get fuel... i've been looking for this game like crazy, but have no idea what it's called I remember that game! I played it lots of times when I was a kid.
Too bad I don't remember its name anymore... But hopefully they'll rerelease it sometime.
[center]DIEGO J. SOUZA&&Consulting Detective for Hire[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/YaBBImages/smilies//detective.gif[/img]&&&&[img]http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Fairygdmther/Avatars/A-G-E-S_SIG.jpg[/img][/center]
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| 21 DEC 2004 at 5:39pm |
dombrewerGuild Master
Posts : 3103
Joined: 19 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | I'm not going to wade through eleven pages of bickering about how important graphics are to a game to just say what I thought of this one, so apologies if I've missed any crucial points.
To start with I really didn't like it, partly because of the graphics, more to do with the music and occassionally to do with the ridiculous leaps of logic needed to crack a puzzle, but in time I warmed to it, and certainly by the time I got out of the mansion and into the Provinces, I really enjoyed myself - the spell casting was very well implemented and gave you more of a sense of possibility.
Three things that come to the foremost of my mind in terms of positive criticism - the use of known music -especially "Phantom of the Opera" on the chapter openings was pretty misjudged, and annoying (not to mention questionable in a copyright sense - ALW not getting a credit either...)
Putting yourself and your girlfriend as characters in your own adventure game was a little odd. Were it not for the self-deprecation and odd bits of humourous self-reference it would have been vanity to the nth degree. I would argue that when you're playing games you want to empathise and become the character you are playing - not possible when the person you are playing is a real person - you would have done so much better by changing the name of your own character and not referencing the fact that your girlfriend's name is Natalia on the first page of the manual. It sometimes felt like a pet project that was designed only for your use and playing it was slightly uncomfortable because of that. Putting your girlfriend in the bath seems very twisted bearing in mind she exists.
Finally I wasn't all that sure of your handling of the gay character. The "oh! you're a.... [pregnant pause]" dialogue was cringeworthy, and the blue oyster as a "symbol of homosexuality" was bordering on insulting. I'd be careful, even knowing that your intentions were obviously innocent.
Oh, and if you're going to slag off Myst - try not to design a game that is in fact a pixel hunt.
All in all a big well done Alkis - for a piece of free software it's well worth playing and certainly deserving of the disc space it shares with my other freeware adventures. I really hope you produce another game soon!
[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/detective.gif[/img][b]Playing:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/blahblah.gif[/img][b]Reading:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/whistle.gif[/img][b]Listening:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/indie.gif[/img][b]Watching:[/b]
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| 21 DEC 2004 at 6:28pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By dombrewer (21 DEC 2004 5:38pm)
It sometimes felt like a pet project that was designed only for your use and playing it was slightly uncomfortable because of that.
Suprisingly, this was one of the things that appealed so much to me. I think it was a musician who said "I make music for myself, the better if people happens to enjoy it". An egotistical point-of-view, but I'd rather prefer that than simply try pleasing the crowd with formulaic stuff
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| 21 DEC 2004 at 6:32pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By dombrewer (21 DEC 2004 5:38pm)
Oh, and if you're going to slag off Myst - try not to design a game that is in fact a pixel hunt.
where did you ppl find pixel hunt?! if you exclude some exits, i didn't encounter any such problem! apparently, like i told shany, you haven't experienced REAL pixel hunt, like in future wars! now, if you've survived that, you can do anything!
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 21 DEC 2004 at 6:35pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | OMG you're right - I remember that tiny hole on the huge map where you had to put in the red flag
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| 21 DEC 2004 at 7:22pm |
| Deleted User | I loved Future Wars!
If only for sheer style.
BTW much as I respect Alkis' work, I have to say some posts are starting to smack of being overly defensive. Dom has his opinion, let's leave it at that. It's an above average freeware game - but (sorry Alkis) it's not worth THIS much fuss, surely?
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| 21 DEC 2004 at 7:33pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SquarejawHero (21 DEC 2004 7:22pm)
It's an above average freeware game - but (sorry Alkis) it's not worth THIS much fuss, surely?
Why not? It surely is one of the most challenging and longest freeware adventures ever. And it's safe to say that so far it has been quite a success!
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| 21 DEC 2004 at 7:39pm |
| Deleted User | I don't want to sound unfair to Alkis, but really - it's not THAT great. It's good and I can really appreciate the effort and time he put into it, but I get the feeling that some of you think it's almost above criticism.
It's good! I can agree to that! I played it for a while! But it's starting to sound like a marketing push in here! Dom made some valid points. I found it very hard to navigate and use, the narrative confusing and hard to look at and listen to. But wow, the work he must've put into it - I can appreciate it completely and I totally dig what he was trying to do.
It's just starting to get a little bit "hyper" in here.
edit - to note, challenging and longest don't necessarily mean anything to me.
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| 21 DEC 2004 at 7:54pm |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Well - if there are opinions that differ so greatly about this game, then it certainly is worth all this hype I do agree that the navigation can be quite cumbersome but the puzzle design is definitely a cut above most current commercial efforts. It has been a while since I saw such good puzzles. That along with the epic storyline (rarely seen in a freeware adventure) I think qualifies for a lengthy discussion!
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| 21 DEC 2004 at 10:38pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Agustin (21 DEC 2004 7:54pm)
Well - if there are opinions that differ so greatly about this game, then it certainly is worth all this hype
By that logic, so is LSL:MCL.
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| 22 DEC 2004 at 12:51am |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | I can't really understand all this. It's like watching the following conversation:
Person A: I made this coat. I'm not good at sewing, so the stitching is messed up, and I used what fabric I had available. My intent though was to keep people warm.
Person B: OMG, that looks horrible! o you really think that looks good?
Person A: Ummm, I said I made it to keep people warm, not look good. If you are cold, you can have one for free.
Person B: It looks terrible! How could you wear that?
Person A: It is warm. That was the intent. I can't sew.
It works for what I intended. It is free to anyone who is cold and wants one.
Person B: I'm just trying to help. It looks very bad. You'll thank me for this.
Person A: The intent was not to look good. The intent was to keep people warm. I know how it looks, but do you think it is warm?
Person B: I can't tell if it's warm because of the way it looks. I'd never wear that. o you not see how it looks?
Person A: I know how it looks. I intended for it to be warm. If you are cold, you can have one for free. If you do not want one, then that is ok.
Person B: <Pulling out a bullhorn> Hey everyone! These coats look like crap! I am just trying to help this guy who is giving them away for free. Next time he should use better fabric and a sewing machine before he gives us free coats.
Weird conversation.
It sort of reminds me of the Blair Witch Project. When that movie came out, many people didn't go to see it because it looked like it was filmed with a hand-held camera. As if the people who made it should have known better. Nevermind that it was INTENDED that way.
All the Trekkies and Dr. Who fans love those shows for the stories. Nevermind the special effects looked bad. They did get the point across though.
Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed OW and the graphics didn't bother me one bit.
Originally Posted By Aya (21 DEC 2004 4:10pm)
btw, do you by any chance know the name of an atari 2600 game? you controled a lunar vehicle or smth (smth like in moon patrol), scrolling from left to right, but there were two levels, and at times you needed to go to the bottom level (where the game scrolled from right to left) to get fuel... i've been looking for this game like crazy, but have no idea what it's called
Aya - http://www.atariguide.com/4/427.htm ???
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| 22 DEC 2004 at 12:59am |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5536
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SquarejawHero (21 DEC 2004 7:38pm)
edit - to note, challenging and longest don't necessarily mean anything to me.
Hmm... since adventure games tend to be short and fairly easy these days, I'd think it should. :-/
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| 22 DEC 2004 at 1:26am |
| Deleted User | Maybe, but I'd rather play a short, easy but eminently playable and well developed game over a long, challenging yet incredibly badly designed one.
Just a point, not referring to OW at all. Take Max Payne 2 for example - a great shooter, over very quickly and is pretty easy going, but playable and a ton of fun. I'd rather play that than any other mediocre FPS no matter how long or hard it is. *coff Doom 3 coff*
LOL, getting into Benny Hill territory.
Even if a game is long, challenging and good, like Morrowind for example, doesn't mean I don't favour shorter or easier games over it in terms of gameplay.
As for AG games, most recent one's I've played have been challenging and reasonably long - The Moment of Silence, Sherlock, Myst IV ... doesn't mean I found them to be exceptional titles though.
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| 22 DEC 2004 at 1:55am |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5536
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SquarejawHero (22 DEC 2004 1:26am)
Maybe, but I'd rather play a short, easy but eminently playable and well developed game over a long, challenging yet incredibly badly designed one.
Fair enough. I'll admit there are good and bad ways of challenging a player. I'd infinitely rather face the challenges of Obsidian than Discworld, for example. Both games are hard, but Discworld seemed to require arbitary and random solutions whereas Obsidian had well designed puzzles, with clues to be found if you paid a reasonable amount of attention.
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| 22 DEC 2004 at 2:38am |
dombrewerGuild Master
Posts : 3103
Joined: 19 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | In that case I don't think you're defending OW as cleary as you think, Andro. Some of those puzzles were pretty obtuse.
There were many well considered puzzles in OW, but there were a couple of dogs as well. For example, knowing a gag from the first Police Academy film is a pretty strange way of ensuring the solution to puzzle in a fantasy adventure game.
Much like SJH - I'd far rather play a brilliant short game than a long mediocre one. The Longest Journey springs to mind, not to invoke a separate debate, but there was a game that seriously got on my nerves. For me there was a prime example of quantity over quality.
[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/detective.gif[/img][b]Playing:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/blahblah.gif[/img][b]Reading:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/whistle.gif[/img][b]Listening:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/indie.gif[/img][b]Watching:[/b]
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| 22 DEC 2004 at 3:32am |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5536
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By dombrewer (22 DEC 2004 2:38am)
In that case I don't think you're defending OW as cleary as you think, Andro. Some of those puzzles were pretty obtuse.
There were many well considered puzzles in OW, but there were a couple of dogs as well. For example, knowing a gag from the first Police Academy film is a pretty strange way of ensuring the solution to puzzle in a fantasy adventure game.
True, OW has a number of puzzles that require "Monkey Island" type thinking, but I've found most of them readily solveable by keeping that in mind. Making a screwdriver, helping the troll with his band, etc.
I admit the blue oyster puzzle was very bad. I just got through that one tonight with the help of the comment you made earlier. I doubt I would have gotten it otherwise. There really should be feedback from Klikliklik if you give him the unchanged item to give you an idea you're on the right track. And a barnacle is not the same thing as an oyster, either. But that's the only stinker of a puzzle I've seen so far.
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| 22 DEC 2004 at 3:59am |
Agustín CordesGuild Master
Posts : 5696
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: AR, Buenos Aires
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Fickfack (21 DEC 2004 10:38pm)
By that logic, so is LSL:MCL.
Where are the different opinions? I keep hearing it's crap
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| 22 DEC 2004 at 3:17pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Ivinia (22 DEC 2004 12:51am)
Aya - http://www.atariguide.com/4/427.htm ???
oh man! is that it? now i'm not sure! i have the rom-file and tried it, but now i don't remember anything! it does have everything i remember, but i thought it had better gfx (.... :), that there was a fuel gauge and that the "stages" were more than 5! i love it anyway!!! i remember one particular enemy ship though, that appeared towards to end, so i'll play more and see... thanx ivinia!
oh, and [img]http://www.carbonize.co.uk/Yahoo/beta/24.gif[/img] @ the coat dialog! so to the point!
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 22 DEC 2004 at 9:09pm |
IviniaGuild Master
Posts : 4459
Joined: 7 JUN 2003
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Aya (22 DEC 2004 3:17pm)
it does have everything i remember, but i thought it had better gfx (.... :)
I went throught the same situation this weekend. My all-time favorite game is the original Hidden and Dangerous. It's been years since playing it and I've been through dozens of other FPS games since. I loaded it up and my first thought was, "I thought the graphics looked better than this..."
I've been going through that with all my old C64 games I've been getting lately. Ahhh, the memories... We remember how good the graphics were back then by those standards, but carry those feeling forward as technology changes. It's not until we reload them that we see they don't really stand the test of time...except MegaMania of course....
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| 23 DEC 2004 at 4:41pm |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | well, i did make progress in gas hog and found that particular enemy ship.. and that looked worse that i remembered too! i guess it's what you said, our memories are based on how things were back then! i wonder what we'll be saying about today's games in 20 years... "omg, that looks horrible, i thought myst 4 looked better"!!! (gas hog's frustration levels haven't changed btw, i got as pissed off as i used to... :)
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 23 DEC 2004 at 6:48pm |
AnneGuild Master
Posts : 4800
Joined: 8 MAR 2003
Status : Online | Alkis,I hope you are encouraged by the number of people asking for help.You made a good game.
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| 23 DEC 2004 at 7:04pm |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Dombrewer, let me answer your points...
Originally Posted By dombrewer (21 DEC 2004 5:38pm)
the use of known music -especially "Phantom of the Opera" on the chapter openings was pretty misjudged, and annoying (not to mention questionable in a copyright sense - ALW not getting a credit either...)
I'm completely ignorant when it comes to laws, so I consulted a lawyer beforehand. You do not need to ask permission to use up to 15 seconds of a song, and there is no copyright issue. It's the 'trick' most TV & radio commercials use. That I should have mentioned ALW in the credits for deontology reasons is something that never crossed my mind and you are right about it.
Putting yourself and your girlfriend as characters in your own adventure game was a little odd. Were it not for the self-deprecation and odd bits of humourous self-reference it would have been vanity to the nth degree. I would argue that when you're playing games you want to empathise and become the character you are playing - not possible when the person you are playing is a real person - you would have done so much better by changing the name of your own character and not referencing the fact that your girlfriend's name is Natalia on the first page of the manual. It sometimes felt like a pet project that was designed only for your use and playing it was slightly uncomfortable because of that. Putting your girlfriend in the bath seems very twisted bearing in mind she exists.
Ok first things first.. Natalia is my EX girlfriend (ex fiancee, for that matter). The game started as a "domestic" project, I woke up one day and said to her "Hey, I'll make you an adventure game". The characters are NOT Alkis & Natalia, they're NAMED after Alkis & Natalia and other than that bare no resemblance whatsoever to the real us (despite some in-game jokes). As for the bath tub.. come on. : It's not like it was an X-rated scene.
Finally I wasn't all that sure of your handling of the gay character. The "oh! you're a.... [pregnant pause]" dialogue was cringeworthy, and the blue oyster as a "symbol of homosexuality" was bordering on insulting. I'd be careful, even knowing that your intentions were obviously innocent.
Movies and games scenes that include minorities (I'm not even sure I'm allowed to use that term nowadays) such as negros, homosexuals etc. always get analysed by the audience to the last detail, strip-searched for anything that might be offensive. I suppose that if one's really looking to be offended, he will be. Personally, I cannot think of a reason a gay person would find the Blue Oyster joke as offensive. Should heterosexuals be offended by Larry Laffer's pathetic goofs and mishaps whenever he's trying to hit on a woman? No, because the jokes are aimed to that particular character, not to every hetero in the world. Why should gay jokes be any different?
And by the way (I read your other post, had to look "obtuse" up in the dictionary) you didn't need to have watched the Police Academy films, there was a hint in Chapter 1 if you tried to turn the TV on.
Oh, and if you're going to slag off Myst - try not to design a game that is in fact a pixel hunt.
Pixel hunt? ??? Other Worlds is hardly a flawless game, but I don't think anyone had any trouble spotting objects & hotspots.
All in all a big well done Alkis - for a piece of free software it's well worth playing and certainly deserving of the disc space it shares with my other freeware adventures. I really hope you produce another game soon!
Thank you, no other games will be coming I'm afraid but I'm glad you enjoyed this one.
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| 23 DEC 2004 at 7:09pm |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SquarejawHero (21 DEC 2004 7:38pm)
I don't want to sound unfair to Alkis, but really - it's not THAT great. It's good and I can really appreciate the effort and time he put into it, but I get the feeling that some of you think it's almost above criticism.
It's good! I can agree to that! I played it for a while! But it's starting to sound like a marketing push in here! Dom made some valid points. I found it very hard to navigate and use, the narrative confusing and hard to look at and listen to. But wow, the work he must've put into it - I can appreciate it completely and I totally dig what he was trying to do.
It's just starting to get a little bit "hyper" in here.
edit - to note, challenging and longest don't necessarily mean anything to me.
Well, the topic is called "Your opinion about Other Worlds". I therefore assume it's perfectly natural for people to be talking about Other Worlds in this thread. It's not like we're flooding the forum with threads about it.. People who think it's not worth the hype can simply choose not to read it. And besides, I don't think the guys' replies suggested that it's "above criticism", some people stated what they didn't like, others replied that those situations did not bother them. I'm going to reverse what you said and ask, is negative criticism above criticism?
I'm almost tempted to give you people the password to my Hotmail account, just so you could get a glimpse of what people from outside this forum tell me about Other Worlds. There are so many of them I'm having real trouble keeping up. I even got one from a Russian gaming magazine (an actual magazine, not an online one) that wants an interview. 1803 people have downloaded it in 22 days. The AGS voting gives it a 90% so far, and that's from people who know good from bad amateur games, who struggle to make good looking adventures, and had given me plenty of (polite) negative criticism when I first showed them some screenshots. Just Adventure gave it an A. I'm not saying all that to change your mind about it, but if you think every free game gets that much attention, then ok, it's not worth the hype.
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