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| 18 DEC 2004 at 5:18pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By alkis21 (18 DEC 2004 2:27am)
... but I feel sad when people don't even give it a chance before writing megabytes about how badly it sucks. Some guy in that other forum is bashing it for three days and he hasn't even played it, does that give him so much more satisfaction that trying the first couple of chapters?
Who asked you to interfere??? Hush, back to mama!
He seems to think that graphics is all about the tools. He forgets that no matter how advanced the program you're using is, you always start with a blank page, on which you have to actually draw something.
At first I wasn't even sure if I should answer that, but hey sometimes one has to play the big, ass kicking bully so here we go:
A guy who doesn't even know my name and calls himself Alkis21 feels offended by me and cries a river... oh, poor boy!
The discussion was between me and Aya in the first place it just happened to turn around a little freeware game called Other Worlds. Again I have quite some respect for people who make their own games because I also know that it is much work. But then again you published a game with horrible graphics and now can't take the critics but cry for mama? If you release something for the public you must face the fire or keep it for yourself because you'll never be able to satsify everybody as you statedt yourself. "Eat or die" is a saying we have here, so don't be such a sissy.
Download Gimp, check some tutorials on the web on how to handle it, you don't really need to have an artists blood in your veines its very technical especially when using photographs as backgrounds. Use a resolution of 1024x768 and 24bit colours, practice with some filters on them until you find something that looks good. Also scan a model from a magazine and do the same, there are art filters that make real nice effects so it doesn't look like a photograph but like a cartoon for example, and use as character. Look for some free sound sample galleries or buy a CD for 5 bucks at the computer discounter convert them to MP3 if necessary.
You want to hear what I believe, you didn't bother about the graphics and sound because you thought you can't do it good anyway and if you try it would be too much work! In other words you were too lazy to accomplish what could have been. So don't squeel around here now like the poor little kiddo whose candies had been stolen from the fat neighbours kid. It is your not doing in the first place - if you would work in whatever job and do so poor you can look for another job the moment your boss sees it. And now don't say "but this is a homemade project" - and? Does that excuse lousy technics? You wanted to publish a game to show people what you can do - and I didn't like it because it was poorly done. I didn't make my own game yet because I know it is soo much work but if I did I wouldn't release something as poor as that!
And then follows the line that is carefully designed to hurt:
OW looks that either the developer is a first time PC user or a pretty young teenager - or someone who didn't care.
Carefully designed to hurt? If I really want to hurt somebody it will be not careful but a real smash in the face...
I'm already so scared when your big brother will come for me now after what I've written here. But I couldn't really help myself. Whimps like you give me the creeps. You were not even trying to defend yourself you were just crying.. so again; Hush back to mama little kid!
Waiting for your fans to defend you...
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 5:23pm |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | No need to defend him.
You made such a great job of making yourself look like a complete tit that it's redundant.
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 5:42pm |
Pastor DisasterJourneyman
Posts : 1056
Joined: 14 DEC 2004
Status : Online | Yeah, Ogre, I'm afraid I have agree with Lucien21. I don't like saying it (and perhaps would have used a different word), but I do think you went too far. :-/
Then again, maybe it is not the place of the new kid to tell off the longtimer...
Dyslexics wonder why there isn't a word that means the same thing as "cinnamon."
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 5:43pm |
AnneGuild Master
Posts : 4800
Joined: 8 MAR 2003
Status : Online | Don`t worry PD,ogre is out of line.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 5:44pm |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5538
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | I'd find this whole graphics debate almost amusing, except for the tone that its taken. Other Worlds is probably going to be the best freeware game I've played to date, from what I've seen so far. I can't believe there are some people who hate the game simply because the graphics don't meet some arbitrary standard of their own. It's an interesting game, and you didn't pay anything for it either, for crying out loud! Sheesh.....
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 5:50pm |
| Deleted User | Some people just can't face the truth...
Life is cruel and if people are only touched with satin gloves they'll lose more as if they were slapped into the face and kicked in the butt a few times. They just need to learn to stand up again and never give up!
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 5:53pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Andromus (18 DEC 2004 5:44pm)
Other Worlds is probably going to be the best freeware game I've played to date, from what I've seen so far. I can't believe there are some people who hate the game simply because the graphics don't meet some arbitrary standard of their own. It's an interesting game, and you didn't pay anything for it either, for crying out loud! Sheesh.....
1. how much better could it have been with adequate graphics?
2. I don't hate it but I was again and again attacked for stating that the game as horrible graphics.
3. Paying or not paying is a lame excuse. When I have to pay for something that is better as OW I'll do that when I have more fun with it.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 6:13pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Anne (18 DEC 2004 5:43pm)
Don`t worry PD,ogre is out of line.
It's Ogre not ogre!
and now look up its meaning in the dictionary!
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 6:18pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Lucien21 (18 DEC 2004 5:22pm)
No need to defend him.
You made such a great job of making yourself look like a complete tit that it's redundant.
Like a Blue Tit, Sombre Tit, Striolated Tit-Spinetail or Fluffy-backed Tit-Babbler?
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 6:18pm |
AnneGuild Master
Posts : 4800
Joined: 8 MAR 2003
Status : Online | You are how I spell you ducks.A little fluffy bad tempered ogre.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 6:29pm |
| Deleted User | Yeah and mean, too!
Ogre munches little kids and wannabe witty butterflies as snacks between meals.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 6:33pm |
AnneGuild Master
Posts : 4800
Joined: 8 MAR 2003
Status : Online | Emegency,emergency.Germany invades England.But the y can`t play soccer anyway.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 8:08pm |
Pastor DisasterJourneyman
Posts : 1056
Joined: 14 DEC 2004
Status : Online | Germany invading England AGAIN? Sheesh, do we Americans need to rescue you again?
Now THEM's fighting words, right?
Dyslexics wonder why there isn't a word that means the same thing as "cinnamon."
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 8:19pm |
AnneGuild Master
Posts : 4800
Joined: 8 MAR 2003
Status : Online | They never invaded us in the 1st place.And a sweet guy I know is German.Ogre,where do you live?Shame about your soccer.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 8:25pm |
| Deleted User | You can't tease me with soccer I'm completely soccer abstinent.
Btw how far did England come at the last worldcup? Germany was 2nd I believe?
And I think every German hobby team could beat the American national team easily...
See you guys, we Germans always want to be as perfect as possible...
Anne, I live in northern Germany a little north of Hamburg in a small village between the cities of Kiel and Neumuenster. And I am a cute man, too! But you have no chance I like Asian women...
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 8:46pm |
AnneGuild Master
Posts : 4800
Joined: 8 MAR 2003
Status : Online | [smiley=rofl.gif]Sorry ducks,no interest here.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 9:13pm |
jamarchandSchattenjger
Posts : 1665
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | ....well.....after all that hot dabate...I want to say something about the adventure's philosophy.
Aya made a long text about her opinion on adventure essence.
I have nothing against Alkis or OW. If his game was well received by adventurers, great for him and for them.
But the topic's poll is - What do you think about OW and the free adventures?
My response - I hate all of them. Why?
Because I need to believe in what I'm interacting...I need nice graphics, racional and solid stories.
Adventures are not only nice graphics? I agree. But the question don't stop here. Adventures need nice graphics AND good stories. It's an inclusive axis.
So, the ultimate developer's chalenge is - Give us adventurers, games paved into nice backgrounds, characters, animations and run them inside a solid, well concepted and intrincated web of events. - The plot.
I like hard challenges, I like nice graphics, I like to be tretaed as an intelligent and demanding person, because I always look for better things, improvements, advances in all areas of adventure games...adventure scripts...adventure state-of-art.
I never be satisfacted with mediocre, fast and bad crafted games.
I can't see any sense in games like OW. Losing time making so short thing?
No. Mr Alkis and others independent developers should be spend your time developing and joining groups to produce something bigger...higher flies.
Mr Alkis: The next time, dare much more...and gave us a great game...not simply an inconsequent, eventual and absolutelly dispensable product. Be giant! Be demanding! Be durst! Liberate your talent! You can do it.
The adventures (and the genre) will be thankfull to you.
 &&&&[move]Actually playing SHIVERS and Rhem 2[/move]&&
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 9:24pm |
| Deleted User | I'm don't think that's fair on Alkis.
He knows he cannot compete with other developers in terms of presentation, so he's tried to make the best game with the talent he has. It's not everyone's cup of tea, for certain, but you have to respect he's poured a lot of time and effort with great care to even ask people to beta test it before release. He even set himself a date for completion - a brave thing to do for an amateur developer.
edit - you also have to consider they're trying to create games out of passion, out of what they want to see or try to make. They might be able to group up, but that takes a hell of a lot of organisation around other people and each developer has their own idea. They're not companies!
Both him and Parrot of late have created little nuggets of gold, in my opinion. "Like" has nothing to do with it, respect has.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 10:42pm |
| Deleted User | Agreed but (oh no, another but) if he releases a game to the public he must accept criticism as well as salutes. If not he shouldn't have published his game on the net and just give it to his friends and family. With fame also comes duty...
At least he gets some feedback. For my articles I rarely get anything back neither bad nor good and I'm very curious what people think about them.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 10:50pm |
| Deleted User | Originally Posted By Anne (18 DEC 2004 8:45pm)
[smiley=rofl.gif]Sorry ducks,no interest here.
Sorry this is another understanding problem... do you mean you duck or you call me a duck and if you call me one what is the meaning behind it? Sorry maybe I'm just a bit tired my thinking machine doesn't work so well anymore.
Btw I found out that Caroline is from Liverpool (Beatles), (Liverpudlian?) and that you Anne are from the other side of the isle, the Pennines go from the Cheviot Hills to the Midland plains.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 11:28pm |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | As one very late reply (sorry for being away, had a friend over and we watched "Spaced" together, which is a very amusing Brittish comedy series, you should try it) to Ogre;
Sometimes the line between telling the truth and being rude can be very thin or even non-existant - sometimes you have to tell the truth. Sometimes, you have to be rude. And although a gentleman wouldn't choose to be rude, a honest man sometimes just has to.
But being rude isn't quite the same thing as being mean. So fire up that thinking machine again, and get to it. Yes, I'm being rude here, maybe even a tad mean, but I suggest you re-read your post to Alkis and think about what 'being mean' really is.
Honestly, do you really think that Alkis spent all those years with his hands tied behind his back trying to work out how to draw in MS Word? Do you really think that Alkis didn't try the best he could? Even if you didn't like his resolution, bit-depth, software-of-choice: TOUGH. He made quite clear that he didn't care about the graphics, he went for the story and interaction. Now, if you want to comment on a games graphics, go do it on a game that was made by someone who did take a lot of care in making beautiful graphics.
He doesn't care about his graphics, and he said so. Now, I don't like that in a game - tough luck for me! Someone gave it an "A"! You are fully in your right to like or dislike any game on any grounds, but rampaging about how someone should have done it whilst that person said he didn't want to do it like that is just very insensitive, for the lack of a ruder word.
And, for the record, I reply so angrily here because I KNOW personally it hurts to get negative feedback, even if you should be able to handle it, even if it's true. But playing "the bad cop" and doing the "wake up in the real world and smell the ashes" routine really enrages me as a designer. You do it, if Gimp has all the tutorials. You do it, if it's so easy. Oh, you don't, because you don't want to do it? Or why, because you can't think of a creative story? Well, you make a game that's all about graphics then, and wait fore someone to crit your story over and over again.
Gah. I'll stop writing before I really get too angry to control my own writing.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 11:47pm |
Pastor DisasterJourneyman
Posts : 1056
Joined: 14 DEC 2004
Status : Online | I think perhaps we need some pastoral counseling here...
<clunking Parrot's and Ogre's heads together like coconuts>
...let's pray.
Dyslexics wonder why there isn't a word that means the same thing as "cinnamon."
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 11:53pm |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | Ok, who's the pray... I'll bring my shotg-... oh, you're not talking about predators, right?
I just had to get that message off my feathery chest
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| 19 DEC 2004 at 12:08am |
JoGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Location: AU, Qld.
Status : Offline | Well, I haven't voted as yet simply because I feel I haven't played enough of it to comment (just up to trying to blow up the basement door). So far I'm liking it and can't honestly say that the gfx are bothering me but then I didn't expect them to be perfect in the first place. I don't mind the music so far either - even if the intro is pinched from Andrew Lloyd Weber's Phanton of the Opera!
Really, I don't see how you can criticize a free game too much
Parrot said And, for the record, I reply so angrily here because I KNOW personally it hurts to get negative feedback, even if you should be able to handle it, even if it's true. But playing "the bad cop" and doing the "wake up in the real world and smell the ashes" routine really enrages me as a designer. You do it, if Gimp has all the tutorials. You do it, if it's so easy. Oh, you don't, because you don't want to do it? Or why, because you can't think of a creative story? Well, you make a game that's all about graphics then, and wait fore someone to crit your story over and over again. - guess that's about how I feel too, after all if you don't like it, why bother to keep on playing it, is it just so you can have fun knocking someone else's effort?
I'd just like to say congratulations to Alkis, thanks for making the game and I hope people's criticisms don't stop you from making another one in the future.
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