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| 18 DEC 2004 at 12:10am |
AnneGuild Master
Posts : 4800
Joined: 8 MAR 2003
Status : Online | Ogre,the Beatles were scousers.It is just that I am from the other side of the pennines.But I don`t suppose you know what the Pennines are.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 12:41am |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
Originally Posted By The Parrot (18 DEC 2004 12:02am)
Yeah, Terry, you are right ... but I don't think style is made by money...
Of course it is important to work within whatever parameters a given technology has at any given time.
That aside, a large team of creative professionals can draw upon a very deep talent pool in every area. This includes artistic style and graphic execution. It does not however guarantee innovation or originality. That's usually because the publisher and financial backers apply a lot of pressure on creative teams to conform, take fewer risks and to follow popular trends.
These factors are all well known and they do impede free flowing creative thought. But that is the price of working in a highly competitive, multi billion dollar a year industry that has largely gone mainstream.
The good news is that there is still room in the world for new blood and independent studios. There is also room for amateurs who create freeware titles and a whole spectrum of custom game mods. Some of them are very good. But most do suffer from a severe lack of money, tools, time and a devoted, professional support staff.
Cheers, Terry
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 1:01am |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | May I speak?
Let me start by saying that people bashing the graphics of Other Worlds doesn't bother me at all. 4 pages of rants cannot give me 1% of the pain I get from, say, Anne's comment about "undeveloped characters". Why? Because I know the graphics are bad, and because I know I couldn't have done any better.
Ever since I was a toddler I wanted to create and adventure game. During the same era, I also realized I could not draw a straight line to save my life, let along a tree or a face. So I started coding a text adventure until I though to myself, "who am I kidding? Nobody's going to play it". So I decided to make a graphics game instead. I got frustrated plenty of times with my incompetence during the making process, considered giving up, but I kept going. I thought, what is it I think I can give people?
-Can I give them a good story?
I guess, I have a vivid imagination and plenty of ideas.
-Can I give them a set of good puzzles?
I surely hope so, after all the adventure games I've played.
-Can I give them a good interface?
Probably, but just to be on the safe side I'll just add a couple of features to the good old Sierra one, which I love.
-Can I give them a bug-free game, or at least one with very few bugs?
Well, I'm a programmer, aren't I?
-Can I give them some good music?
If you think I can't draw, wait till you hear my music.. I have absolutely no talent in anything that involves art. But hey, there are millions of free mods on the internet, if I listen to a few thousands of them I'll be able to choose 20-30 that blend well with the story and are not too bad.
-Can I give them good graphics?
The answer was very clear on that one: NO. I could have prolongued the game for 20 years and it still wouldn't have looked any better. I considered asking for someone with some talent to help, but that would have complicated things more than I wanted to. And it's not about new or old games, amateur or professional ones people; some amateur games out there have very beautiful graphics because their creators have the talent I don't.
What do I do then? Sometimes you've just got to do what you've got to do. I thought, I can at least try to make sure that a door looks like a door and a key looks like a key, and I will make this game happen. Some people will laugh, some will insult me, many others won't even bother to try it, but what alternative did I have? Ditch the project entirely? I didn't want to do that. At least I had the nerve to try, and hope that enough people would overlook the bad graphics and enjoy the game. As it turned out, many did and I'm happy and grateful to them.
I'm sorry Aya got in trouble for giving Other Worlds an 'A'. Some would say that a 'C' would have been more appropriate due to its technical flaws. But what would that change in his review? I personally am against grades in reviews, everything you need to know is in the text, how can you summarize so many words in a single letter?
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 1:06am |
AnneGuild Master
Posts : 4800
Joined: 8 MAR 2003
Status : Online | Oh,Alkis,and I love the game.But I am still in the middle of it and April Ryan is my idea of a developing character.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 1:16am |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | trouble? you call that trouble? just let me review myst and riven... now, that will be trouble!!!
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 1:22am |
AnneGuild Master
Posts : 4800
Joined: 8 MAR 2003
Status : Online | OK.I will call your bluff.
Review Riven.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 1:25am |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Anne (18 DEC 2004 1:22am)
OK.I will call your bluff.
Review Riven.
can you guarantee me an identity change and a safe hideout in chile where the mob will never find me if i do that?
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 1:27am |
AnneGuild Master
Posts : 4800
Joined: 8 MAR 2003
Status : Online | Yup.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 1:28am |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Anne (18 DEC 2004 1:26am)
Yup.
now you are bluffing!
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 1:30am |
gailSchattenjger
Posts : 1659
Joined: 19 JAN 2004
Status : Offline | Go for it, Aya!
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other screaming, "WOO HOO what a ride!!!
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 1:35am |
AnneGuild Master
Posts : 4800
Joined: 8 MAR 2003
Status : Online | Chicken.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 1:37am |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | I'm here!
...wait, what just happened?
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 1:43am |
gailSchattenjger
Posts : 1659
Joined: 19 JAN 2004
Status : Offline | Just watching for the off topic penalty flag.
Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, wine in the other screaming, "WOO HOO what a ride!!!
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 1:45am |
jamarchandSchattenjger
Posts : 1665
Joined: 10 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Why would I spend my time playing that?
No...thanks. I prefer spider patience.
 &&&&[move]Actually playing SHIVERS and Rhem 2[/move]&&
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 1:46am |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | Before this thread goes dangerously off topic, let me inform anyone who cares that my reply is on page 4.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 1:58am |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | I agree, back on topic, please...
Alkis, I just wanted to say that although I didn't like it, I do think it's a great efford to make a game - I might have some idea of the things you must've went through. And I applaud you for that.
My comments on this thread were far more on general games than specificly your game. Me not liking your game is tough luck on my part, you should be proud of making it - and remember; think that, even with some negative, you got lots of very positive comments. I tend to forget that when I read replies of people to my game.
hope you're ok (you sound a bit down :-/)
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 2:28am |
alkis21Schattenjger
Posts : 2112
Joined: 23 OCT 2002
Location: GR
Status : Offline | It's ok. None of your comments were offending. You have to understand, it doesn't matter if a 999,999 people will like my game, I'll still feel a bit sad if the 1000000th will hate it. But if so many people refused to play Grim Fandango because of its interface, what chance do I have with something that doesn't look appealing at all? I know you just can't please everyone, but I feel sad when people don't even give it a chance before writing megabytes about how badly it sucks. Some guy in that other forum is bashing it for three days and he hasn't even played it, does that give him so much more satisfaction that trying the first couple of chapters? Then you have:
Making a picture with Koala Paint on the C64 was cruel, making the same pics with more colours and higher resolution with Deluxe Paint on an Amiga was already pretty easy, making the same picture again with even higher resolution and even more colours with Photoshop or Gimp is even more easy.
He seems to think that graphics is all about the tools. He forgets that no matter how advanced the program you're using is, you always start with a blank page, on which you have to actually draw something.
And then follows the line that is carefully designed to hurt:
OW looks that either the developer is a first time PC user or a pretty young teenager - or someone who didn't care.
But hey, whenever I feel down all I have to do is read feedback like this one here:
Alkis,
You have spoiled us all with your great game. The other producers will have a very hard time living up to our expectations after we have played Other Worlds. Thank you so much for great time I am having playing this game. I'm not getting much done around the house and the Christmas shopping is lagging, but I'm addicted and almost finished with the game, which makes me sad because it was so good. I hate to not have it to go to each day. Please continue on the road to fame with another one of your genius ideas. Luck to you in the future. and THANK YOU AGAIN.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 2:30am |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Anne (18 DEC 2004 1:34am)
Chicken.
chicken? damn right i am! you deal with the angry myst fanboy mob..... [smiley=scared.gif]
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 4:09am |
Pastor DisasterJourneyman
Posts : 1056
Joined: 14 DEC 2004
Status : Online | There's an angry myst fanboy mob? How come nobody ever tells me about these things? Where do I sign up?
Not that I have anything against Aya, you understand. I just like a good mob.
I'd echo Parrot's comments, Alkis. You have plenty of people telling you how great the other aspects of your game is! By the way, if you think your art/musical skills are lousy, I could challenge you to an anti-duel on that. Etch-A-Sketches at 50 paces, worst art wins!
Those who can, do.
Those who can't, teach.
Those who can't teach...post nastygrams on forums.
Dyslexics wonder why there isn't a word that means the same thing as "cinnamon."
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 4:53am |
AyaGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 7277
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Pastor_Disaster (18 DEC 2004 4:08am)
There's an angry myst fanboy mob? How come nobody ever tells me about these things? Where do I sign up?
Not that I have anything against Aya, you understand. I just like a good mob.
i understand... it's fairly easy to find them... just make a subtle post that you don't like myst (careful, don't say you think it sucks, cause then you'll gather the plain myst fans too) and try to provide some arguments on why you don't... regardless of the validity of your arguments, the threats against your life will be from the fanboy mob! [smiley=shudder.gif]
You have gotten the attention of the mysterious lady. She turns to face you. Her face is devoid of any flesh. You are frozen with horror as she begins ripping your body into a bloody mess.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 5:39am |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6693
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
A mob mentality is bad enough but an angry fanboy mob? Ouch!
Cheers, Terry
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 10:23am |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | Not being able to say anything negative about Myst.. .now that is bad !
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 11:02am |
Lucien21Guild Master
Posts : 4876
Joined: 9 JUL 2003
Location: 0
Status : Offline | I'm not scared of any fanboys
MYST S..................................................................
"Hey how did you get in here"
"put the gun down"
"you want me to say what"
"no way"
"I'd rather be dead"
*click* BANG
Dear Diary, My teenage angst bullsh*t now has a bodycount.
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| 18 DEC 2004 at 11:08am |
Jeroen StoutSchattenjger
Posts : 2798
Joined: 14 NOV 2003
Status : Online | /me sneaks off with Lucien21's creditcard (well, he has no use for it anymore) and buys chickens.
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