| 30 NOV 2004 at 6:05pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Roger Charlie (30 NOV 2004 5:50pm)
I know this will probably get completely and utterly flamed and I'll be sent to go and stand in the corner or summit, but....
Why are you so restrictive about what games make it into Just Adventure? It seems to me that if it's not point and click it's no good, which IMO is a tad silly. Especially considering that a lot of games (MMORPGS, FPS's and even RTS's) are much, much more of an adventure then most of todays point & clicks. I just feel it's a misuse of the word 'adventure', surely any game you find exciting and interactive and like reading a good book should be in here?
For example, where is the new Pirates! review? Now that is an adventure! Open endedness, you literally feel the call of the high seas beckoning you to search for fame and fortune. There is such depth hidden in this game if feels like you are writing you own tale of adventure while you are playing it, so where's the review/preview/screenshots?
What do you think? Just Point and Click or Just Adventure?
No, we're not going to flame you. This subject is well-worn on this forum and the consensus is usually the same: There are plenty of sites to handle games that can be considered 'adventuresome' but are in some, way, shape or form action games. Where is the new Pirates! review? Where indeed! They're all over the place, just not here. It would be just as appropriate to say where are the Point & Click 1st or 3rd person adventure games on sites that jump to review games like Pirates!
I don't think I'm going out on a limb by saying that most of the people on this forum are happy to have a place that concentrates on what we considered to be the purest form of adventure games. That doesn't mean we don't 'adventure' into closely-related areas occasionally but for the most part we're quite happy with the status quo.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 6:14pm |
bdeckedSchattenjger
Posts : 1620
Joined: 14 OCT 2011
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Roger Charlie (30 NOV 2004 5:50pm)
For example, where is the new Pirates! review? Why don't you write it and put it in the "Member's Review" forum?
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 6:18pm |
nytimesguyPrivate Detective
Posts : 684
Joined: 14 OCT 2002
Status : Online | Adventure is actually a genre, not a description. A site devoted to adventure games is not a site devoted to games that are adventuresome, but to games that fit into the adventure game genre. Halo 2 has fighting, but it's not a fighting game, it's a first person shooter. There's a lot of strategy in Thief, but it's not a strategy game. If you don't accept genre labels then you would have to demand that there be no specialized gaming websites, that they all cover all games that have even a smidgeon of something they ostensibly cover. Which would be silly.
Charles - Game Theorist
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 6:23pm |
ShanyGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 19 JUN 2003
Status : Online | It's simply a term. Of course RPGs and platformers and the rest are full of adventure, but they have a better, and more fitting term to describe the gameplay in them.
This site mainly reviews point and click adventures because most adventures are point and click.
I'll give you the obvious example of a game which isn't p&c but is clearly adventure - Grim Fandango.
There is no shooting, jumping or fighting in this game, it's all puzzles, but it's not a p&c title.
We can't call them puzzle games, because they all have story and characters, and follow a certain plotline.
So, if you can think of a better name, lets hear it.
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 6:28pm |
Roger CharlieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 41
Joined: 21 FEB 2003
Status : Online | I just feel that the lines are a little blurred in this day and age as to what is and isn't an adventure game. We all know that the traditional adventure is dying, there's is no denying it, it's dying very slowly, but it's dying. I just feel broadening the scope a little would...
a) Prevent this site from going the same way.
b) Bring more of a variety of people to the site and in doing so, getting more turned on to the traditional adventure.
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 6:31pm |
Roger CharlieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 41
Joined: 21 FEB 2003
Status : Online | I would also say that Pirates! is more of an adventure game then LSL:MCL but that got coverage.
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 7:16pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Roger Charlie (30 NOV 2004 6:28pm)
We all know that the traditional adventure is dying, there's is no denying it, it's dying very slowly, but it's dying. I just feel broadening the scope a little would...
a) Prevent this site from going the same way.
b) Bring more of a variety of people to the site and in doing so, getting more turned on to the traditional adventure.
No, I don't think we all know that the traditional adventure is dying at all. Again, this has been discussed ad nauseum, but the fact is that the adventure game genre has been seeking its own level since the so-called heyday of the early-mid nineties when adventure games were relatively more popular partly because computer hardware horsepower at the time was still developing and didn't allow for the 3D action games of the present. So, not only is adventure gaming not dying it's actually making new inroads due to contributions by smaller and/or indie developers (Aura, Alida), cross-development by developers making games like CSI & Law & Order, and the continuing production of the Myst line.
You are apparently new to the forum so I'm wondering where you are getting the idea that it is in danger of 'dying'. The number of hits here has been increasing, not decreasing. Also, IMO, broadening the type of games discussed to include those you mention would drive away the loyal members and be a negative influence on the forum not the other way around!
We welcome you to the forum, but I have another question- Why wouldn't you want to come here just for the benefit of interest in the adventure game genre? There are a zillion places to go for discussion of the other types of games.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 7:39pm |
dombrewerGuild Master
Posts : 3103
Joined: 19 JAN 2003
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Roger Charlie (30 NOV 2004 6:28pm)
I just feel that the lines are a little blurred in this day and age as to what is and isn't an adventure game. We all know that the traditional adventure is dying, there's is no denying it, it's dying very slowly, but it's dying. I just feel broadening the scope a little would...
a) Prevent this site from going the same way.
b) Bring more of a variety of people to the site and in doing so, getting more turned on to the traditional adventure.
The 'traditional' adventure is quite rightly dying, but the modern adventure game is evolving, and thank goodness. We can't still be playing exactly the same kind of game that were released a decade or more ago -and if we want to, we can play the classics as we please. At risk of stirring up a well worn and very tedious debate about the death of the genre, UK gaming magazine PC Zone recently gave Myst IV an 85% review. That's not the sound of a genre in its death throes to me.
In reference to your comment about the website dying as a result of the end of traditional gaming, that isn't the case. The website is called JA+ for a reason, and already has a broadened scope along the lines of what you are saying - with articles and reviews for games like Doom 3, and one for Half Life 2 forthcoming. Not all the forum members may like that, but that content is there nevertheless for those that do.
[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/detective.gif[/img][b]Playing:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/blahblah.gif[/img][b]Reading:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/whistle.gif[/img][b]Listening:[/b] &&[img]http://www.justadventure.com/public_html/yabbfiles/Smilies/indie.gif[/img][b]Watching:[/b]
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 7:40pm |
ShanyGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 19 JUN 2003
Status : Online | I am reminded of people who come to a forum dedicated to a certain movie or TV show and start telling the members to discuss a different movie/show.
We come here because of our interest in games of this genre. We do not broaden our scope because we are not as interested in discussing non-adventure titles.
You will see that few people here will start a discussion about action/adventures, even though they get reviewed on the site, and are somewhat considered as adventure games.
Simply put, we come to discuss what we like. Want to discuss 'pirates'? there's the 'other games' forum for that.
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 8:35pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By dombrewer (30 NOV 2004 7:38pm)
At risk of stirring up a well worn and very tedious debate about the death of the genre, UK gaming magazine PC Zone recently gave Myst IV an 85% review. That's not the sound of a genre in its death throes to me.
And Chuck Osborne (aka PCG_Chuck), bless his heart, over at PC Gamers Mag (Holiday 2004 edition p.101) gave Myst IV an 80% (ie. excellent category).
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 8:57pm |
Roger CharlieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 41
Joined: 21 FEB 2003
Status : Online | Personally, I think the attitude of 'go elsewhere to discuss other games' is bad for the future of the modern adventure. I, as much as all of you have played all the great adventure games, but for a long time I have seen nothing but Myst rehashes and poor attempts to turn TV shows into games, where is the imagination? The modern adventure game in my opinion is yet to define itself, and being so strict as to what is am adventure nowadays can only hold it back.
Of course, thats just my opinion!
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 9:11pm |
Steve IncePrivate Detective
Posts : 571
Joined: 7 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | In many ways you are right, but the people who come here choose what they do because that's what they enjoy.
While I think that there are lots of ways for adventures to develop, many aspects that were once the sole preserve of adventures are being worked into other genres. Adventures are having a big influence on games as a whole, though it may not be immediately obvious to evryone. Even with this in mind, there is still a place for traditional adventure games, even if some of them should be a little more in keeping with the times.
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 9:14pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Roger Charlie (30 NOV 2004 8:57pm)
Personally, I think the attitude of 'go elsewhere to discuss other games' is bad for the future of the modern adventure. I, as much as all of you have played all the great adventure games, but for a long time I have seen nothing but Myst rehashes and poor attempts to turn TV shows into games, where is the imagination? The modern adventure game in my opinion is yet to define itself, and being so strict as to what is am adventure nowadays can only hold it back.
Of course, thats just my opinion!
Did you ever play Runaway, Syberia 1, Syberia 2, TLJ, Amerzone, Tony Tough, The Black Mirror, Journey to the Center of the Earth, The Watchmaker, Broken Sword, Post Mortem etc... etc... etc... ? I'm pretty sure they weren't TV shows and they sure didn't remind me much of Myst.
Maybe you need to open your eyes a bit -
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 9:34pm |
Roger CharlieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 41
Joined: 21 FEB 2003
Status : Online | I know there are games out there AZ but even less then 1/2 of the ones you just listed are actually any good, let alone inspiring.
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 9:43pm |
Goddess of All Things MagicalSchattenjger
Posts : 1565
Joined: 27 MAY 2003
Status : Online | We JA members number 1,000,000 here , because we love the true adventure game. We have stood strong to support this genre ,because we believe in the future of these games
You can say adventure games are dying, Roger Charlie, but we won't believe you or let them die.
&&&&Listening to XM Radio Starbucks Cafe Channel 45&&[IMG]http://img227.echo.cx/img227/8458/dancelikenooneiswatching6ld.png[/IMG]
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 9:44pm |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | I guess I'm lucky - I'm not an overly critical player, I enjoyed all of them.
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 9:51pm |
Roger CharlieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 41
Joined: 21 FEB 2003
Status : Online | Originally Posted By Romnut (30 NOV 2004 9:43pm)
We JA members are in here at 1,00,000 because we love the true adventure game. We have stood strong to support this genre ,because we believe in the future of these games
You can say adventure games are dying, Roger Charlie, but we won't believe you or let them die.
100,000 what? I'm not sure if I follow?
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 9:53pm |
Roger CharlieIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 41
Joined: 21 FEB 2003
Status : Online | I guess I'm not really saying YOU guys should broaden the scope, maybe more to the game developers. What would your ideal modern adventure consist of?
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| 30 NOV 2004 at 11:27pm |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By Roger Charlie (30 NOV 2004 9:52pm)
I guess I'm not really saying YOU guys should broaden the scope, maybe more to the game developers. What would your ideal modern adventure consist of?
The problem I have with this whole discussion is that it is revolving around a problem that only you seem to have. After all when you say that less than half of the games in this list: Runaway, Syberia 1, Syberia 2, TLJ, Amerzone, Tony Tough, The Black Mirror, Journey to the Center of the Earth, The Watchmaker, Broken Sword, Post Mortem
...are any good when at least 6 of them are not only good but have been at the top of the list of many AG player's favorites then I would say you have unrealistic expectations. The fact is that developers (like adventure game savant Steve Ince of Broken Sword/Revolution who posted a few posts above you) have been providing us with a fairly good range of AGs. Sure there's always room for more innovation but I don't want it to go in the direction of more action etc; I just want improvements in the genre as it is.
The future ain't what it used to be!
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| 1 DEC 2004 at 12:47am |
JoGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Location: AU, Qld.
Status : Offline | I just can't for the life of me see what Roger Charlie's problem is. I don't know anything about the game Pirates, but I assume it's just not what we here would term "an Adventure Game", therefore if it's not, why should it be reviewed as though it were?
Adventure games seem to be evolving all the time, some have a little bit of action in them certainly, but the whole point of the game is the adventure, not the action, and as I think someone else mentioned, they aren't even all point and click even - e.g. Grim Fandango, Broken Sword 3 I think - although I haven't had the privilege of playing it yet - some of the Monkey Is. games also - so I can't really see what your complaint is.
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| 1 DEC 2004 at 12:51am |
GrtZucchiniIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 17
Joined: 13 NOV 2004
Status : Online | New to the genre I have only two comments on this discussion, (1) I love what I believe are the "adventure games" such as Myst, Riven, Schizm, etc. I don't like shooting stuff after being exposed to two wars.(2) Here "you guys" go again with your acronyms and undefined terms. For some of us who don't have all your smarts, what in the blazes is meant by point & click, platforms, RPG's (I thought that was a rocket propelled grenade), IMO, MMORPGS, FPS, RTS's, indie and LSL:MCL????
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| 1 DEC 2004 at 12:56am |
| Deleted User | I'm just going to sit here with a big dopey smile on my face. But I won't say why.
I think RC makes some really good points. AG's might be good AG's, but sometimes that doesn't necessarily make them good games... personally I feel the reason why there are so many misfires in the genre is because, quite simply, it's really hard to get it right in the first place. I feel sorry for AG developers... but the truth is a lot of recent AG's either completely divide the community or are, quite simply, not good as games.
When you think about it, AG's really are "bare bones" gaming. It's hard to get right when you pare things down so much... and because of this it's hard to please EVERYONE here.
I personally feel that genre lines are now getting so blurry it's not worth sticking to them as a "hard line". Game types is more the phrase now... not that I mean hybrids, but I think everything in modern gaming is now meshing together so well that it's hard to pidgeonhole games. AG's are easy to do this to because they're as pared down as puzzle games like Tetris and stick to a lot of unwritten rule sets.
Not saying that they shouldn't exist... although "Adventure" in the context we use isn't used by the wider community, rather "point and click" is the term I always see now. In that sense I agree with RC's sentiment... although I think he might have thought about how he was typing it a bit more to start with.
RC also might want to check the reviews more often, and the newsletters... last time I looked HL2 was "coming soon". Can't wait for that one.
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| 1 DEC 2004 at 1:01am |
InlandAZGuild Master
Posts : 5586
Joined: 4 MAY 2007
Status : Offline | I'm just going to sit here with a big dopey smile on my face. But I won't say why. Grin
You farted?
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| 1 DEC 2004 at 1:04am |
SirDaveGuild Master
Posts : 4941
Joined: 17 OCT 2002
Location: US
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By SquarejawHero (1 DEC 2004 12:56am)
I'm just going to sit here with a big dopey smile on my face. But I won't say why.
I thought it was just business as usual for SJH! (But that's just the 'forum dad' talking!)
The future ain't what it used to be!
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