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| 22 NOV 2004 at 2:34pm |
ShanyGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 19 JUN 2003
Status : Online | I don't like 'em. They're like timed sequences in a way - if you mess up one little thing you have to start all over, which is not fun at all.
Stealth sequences make me nervous and with bad character movement they can be a disaster.
I think that the less starting over you have to do in a game the better.
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| 22 NOV 2004 at 2:41pm |
bdeckedSchattenjger
Posts : 1620
Joined: 14 OCT 2011
Status : Online | I don't mind it... as long as it makes sense (i.e. sneak in the shadows when the guard isn't facing you), isn't strictly "timed" (i.e. you can hang out in a "safe" area as long as you'd like", and isn't too sensitive to boo boos.
There were a few of those in Broken Sword - Sleeping Dragon, and I didn't think they were too bad.
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| 22 NOV 2004 at 3:20pm |
Terry PenrodGrand Inquisitor
Posts : 6694
Joined: 16 OCT 2004
Location: US, Texas
Status : Offline | .
I happen to love stealth games like Thief 1 & 2 and well integrated stealth sequences in action titles. Same goes for playing a rogue in RPGs. They can also work occassionally in adventures (particularly action-adventures with solid controls). But they are often out of place and/or use flakey control schemes that add a lot of unnecessary frustration.
However, if they make sense in the context of the story, gameworld and overall gameplay, and if they employ a decent interface that allows for precise control, I like them in almost any genre.
Cheers, Terry
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| 22 NOV 2004 at 4:50pm |
DinkiPixieSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 356
Joined: 26 JUN 2004
Status : Online | I like having time to explore my surroundings, open doors and cupboard doors, read things, play. I don't want to be looking over my shoulder in case some guard or soldier or something is going to pounce on me, especially if they do it again and again.
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| 22 NOV 2004 at 7:02pm |
SusanGuild Master
Posts : 5485
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Funny how there's a "cat" response in a poll about stealth puzzles, as cats need to be that way in order to catch their prey.
If they're done right, I don't mind them. BS3 and the Quest for Glory series, for example. Even sneaking through the hotel in GK3 when the maid is cleaning. Those are my only experiences. As long as it's not the whole game, but a puzzle here and there, it's OK.
I miss my Bubba: 1986 - 2006.
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| 22 NOV 2004 at 7:21pm |
JenniferMillerSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 232
Joined: 16 OCT 2002
Status : Online | There's a whole series of them in Atlantis Evolution. Not as hard as Thief, but SOOO frustrating at times.
What I needed there was a blaster so I could just shoot all those guards.
Jennifer
P.S. Susan, the Sims own me as well. GAH!!!
I am Sirrus. AND I WILL NOT BE DEFEATED!!!&&&&Visit me on MySpace!&&[url]http://www.myspace.com/BonoGirl79[/url]
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| 22 NOV 2004 at 7:23pm |
HolmqvistIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 23
Joined: 2 JUN 2004
Status : Online |
Well... the cat option wasn't really thought of in that way.. Does that mean that people choosing "I'm a cat" likes sneaking pass guards?
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| 22 NOV 2004 at 8:54pm |
JoGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 3 NOV 2002
Location: AU, Qld.
Status : Offline | I don't like them, don't care for Thief for instance and didn't like the part in Silver Earring trying to sneak past the dratted dog! However, I certainly wouldn't describe getting past the maid in GK3 as a real stealth puzzle, after all that was very easy and the controls easy to use whereas in the dog sequence in Silver Earring, on my machine anyway, the controls were pretty awful. Have to wonder if it was just something to do with only my computer or if others had the same problem - Sherlock not moving when he should I mean.
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| 22 NOV 2004 at 11:46pm |
Lady KestrelGuild Master
Posts : 4047
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, NJ
Status : Offline | I prefer not to be captured nor killed in a game. The stealth puzzles in Traitors Gate are what made the game difficult for me. I was always blundering into a situation and getting caught. Other than a short sequence in Paris 1313 and a few spots in The Messenger when I walked through the wrong door, I don't remember playing any other games that required stealth.
Oops! Come to think of it, I guess getting past the prison guard in The Feeble Files would also count as a stealth puzzle. It was tricky but not too difficult after a few tries.
"Where is the fountain that throws up these flowers in a ceaseless outbreak of ecstasy?"
-Rabindranath Tagore
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| 22 NOV 2004 at 11:59pm |
AndromusGuild Master
Posts : 5540
Joined: 6 NOV 2002
Status : Offline | I take Terry's view. I'm playing through Thief, and I'm really enjoying the sneaking around, and I'm finding I'm better at it than I am at conventional action games -- a nice contrast, and a pleasant surprise.
So I don't mind stealth puzzles in adventures in and of themselves, except they're not usually done very well, especially compared to the quality of gameplay Thief provides.
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| 23 NOV 2004 at 12:24am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Stealth puzzles are no good unless you have an interface that works with them. Very VERY few adventure games do. Unless you have a real time 3D interface and can maneuver your character around easily, and look around wherever you like to case the area, stealth puzzles turn into a matter of trial and error, die and reload, or hit the walkthrough for tips.
For stealth puzzles to be properly implemented they also need to have "realistic" trigger points for being found. A game where you can get caught while crouching in the shadows while you are not caught when standing out in a well lit open space is no good. I've just never seen stealth done well in an adventure game.
Not that I like stealth anyway. I don't like having to wait around for a guard to be looking the other way or whatever. But if you're going to have stealth, it has to be reasonably close to what would happen in real life, and you need some maneuverability in the interface.
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| 23 NOV 2004 at 1:52am |
GreatPumpkinSpace Cadet
Posts : 162
Joined: 19 OCT 2003
Status : Online | In my opinion, calling stealth sequences "puzzles" is too kind. The stealth action of today takes me back to the bad hit detection of yesteryear. Anyone who has unfairly been hit by a boss from 'two feet away' or put a few hundred dragon punches through someone's head with no effect knows what I'm talking about.) In stead of figuring out how do I hide and where and in what order do I move to get past the guard/dog/etc. I always end up finding out what the "sweet spots" are where the game doesn't react. Since this is never logical it is always by pointless trial and error. Why does crouching behind the giant column in total shadow get me caught while humping the potted plant in full view of three gun toting thugs does not? Don't ask me. It's just bad hit detec..., er, falwed enemy AI. Or sumsuch. *sigh*
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| 23 NOV 2004 at 4:20am |
SusanGuild Master
Posts : 5485
Joined: 13 OCT 2002
Location: 0
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By JenniferMiller (22 NOV 2004 7:21pm)
P.S. Susan, the Sims own me as well. GAH!!! This disease is spreading all over the world ... it must be stopped!
Hope you're enjoying Blackmoor Manor! Feel free to click the banner in my signature.)
I miss my Bubba: 1986 - 2006.
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| 23 NOV 2004 at 9:38am |
HolmqvistIntergalactic Janitor
Posts : 23
Joined: 2 JUN 2004
Status : Online | Often when I ask about something, people tend to bring up examples of the things being badly implemented in games, of course no one likes that! But what I think is interesting is if you like it. (when it's good)
Let me just tell you about the situation.. In the game I'm planning, I've got a scene where your character is in a building and needs to get out, the building is full of bad guys. That's the scene (dumbed down) Now the most natural thing to me would be that Waldo (that's his name) sneaks through the building and avoid the bad guys. It feels forced and unnatural to have some kind of logical puzzle to get out of that situation.
I'm thinking top-down view (pacman perspective), still control with mouse clicking and you can see a large part of the building so you know where the bad guys are.
The other way would be a cut-scene of Waldo sneaking out.
But hey! Here's an idea: Perhaps I can make the sneaking part skippable for you stealth-haters out there.. (You can get a short cut-scene instead)
/Jacob
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| 23 NOV 2004 at 11:54am |
DinkiPixieSorcerer Apprentice
Posts : 356
Joined: 26 JUN 2004
Status : Online | Great idea!
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| 23 NOV 2004 at 7:40pm |
ShanyGuild Master
Posts : 3313
Joined: 19 JUN 2003
Status : Online | or maybe you could give us a puzzle to solve, so we can either solve the puzzle, or try using stealth.
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| 23 NOV 2004 at 8:13pm |
bdeckedSchattenjger
Posts : 1620
Joined: 14 OCT 2011
Status : Online | I think that stealth puzzles are fine - along with every other type of puzzle - as long as it's well-designed, and makes sense in the plot and the game...
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| 23 NOV 2004 at 8:25pm |
Lady KestrelGuild Master
Posts : 4047
Joined: 27 SEP 2004
Location: US, NJ
Status : Offline | If we could see it from the top down, it sounds like it would be something like a maze, which I wouldn't mind.
"Where is the fountain that throws up these flowers in a ceaseless outbreak of ecstasy?"
-Rabindranath Tagore
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| 23 NOV 2004 at 9:12pm |
CrapstormJourneyman
Posts : 829
Joined: 18 FEB 2004
Status : Online | Holmqvist, you should come up with a way for the character to escape using ingenuity. For example, you can devise ways for him to conceil himself in a clever fashion when the guards pass by, impersonate one of the bad guys, knock out the lights, get into the ductwork or secret passages, block doors to restrict the bad guys' movements, create distractions to confuse the baddies, etc.. There can be a lot more to stealth than just tiptoeing through the shadows. And please don't make it like Traitors Gate where you simply die every time you guess wrong.
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| 24 NOV 2004 at 6:04am |
Jenny100Guild Master
Posts : 3510
Joined: 12 OCT 2002
Status : Offline | Originally Posted By LadyKestrel (23 NOV 2004 8:25pm)
If we could see it from the top down, it sounds like it would be something like a maze, which I wouldn't mind.
Sounds like Pac Man.
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